December 31, 2008 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #636077jewishfeminist02Member
Whoa, let’s not make this thread into a war about evolution with personal insults being tossed back and forth. I believe the subject has been covered extensively elsewhere, so we pretty much already know where everyone stands.
Yes, the Baltimore Zoo is great. I was there several times as a child. The aquarium in Baltimore is also well maintained and the variety of sea creatures there is astounding. I no longer go to zoos, aquariums, circuses etc. on principle, but I still remember those two as holding my attention for long spans of time. I also know secondhand that the zoo in Yerushalayim is amazing. I live so close to the zoo that I can sometimes hear the animals at night (no danger of revealing my identity; there are hundreds of teenagers living in my building!) One of my friends volunteers twice a week with the birds; she loves it. If you’re going to go to a zoo, that’s the place to be.December 31, 2008 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #636078
So by your own statement you admit that a believer in evolution by definition thinks man descended from a non-human animal (ape or whatever name you want to give it),
I never said otherwise.
The WolfDecember 31, 2008 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #636079
and as such evolution by definition is Keneged HaTorah.
I noticed you didn’t complain when I said that I was descended from prehistoric wolves. 🙂
The WolfDecember 31, 2008 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #636080
I did notice you avoided a response to that last point. 🙂December 31, 2008 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #636081
I really don’t want to turn this thread into a debate about evolution, since it’s not the main point of the thread. Let’s just say this:
I think we can agree on the fact that not every word of the Torah is to be interpreted absolutely literally. I suspect you would agree that Chava was not the literal mother of all life (including lions, tigers and bears — oh my!). I think you’d probably agree that HKBH does not have a hand in the literal sense.
I’m also pretty sure that we can agree on the fact that there is far, far more to Berashis 1:1 (and the rest of the parsha) than a simple, literal reading would indicate.
What we don’t necessarily agree on (and, in fact, what I’m pretty sure that we vehemently disagree on) is exactly what *must* be read literally and what *can* be interpreted differently. In addition, while we would probably disagree on just what the meaning behind the simple, plain reading of Beraishis is.
Does that mean that I think you’re wrong? No, it doesn’t — in fact, I don’t know the answer. Is it possible that animals evolved for millions of years (including man-like primates) with HKBH creating a brand new “model” of man? I suppose that’s a possibility. Is it possible that Gosse is correct? Yeah, it’s possible (even if I don’t agree with it). IOW, there are plenty of possibilities out there that can conform to the Torah (provided you don’t hold to a completely literal and simple reading of Beraishis — which I don’t think you do.)
So, what does this mean? It probably means that we have to agree to disagree. I’m willing to admit that I don’t have all the answers to the origin of the universe and of life on this planet. I never claimed to. Nor do I claim to know the ultimate truth that the Torah reveals on the subject.
If you want to discuss evolution, perhaps another thread would be best suited for that. This all started because one careless poster chose to make a joke about a user’s name. Let’s put this topic back in it’s place — the zoo. If you want to discuss evolution, abiogenesis or anything else, I’m more than willing to do so in a thread dedicated to that topic.
The WolfDecember 31, 2008 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #636082000646Participant
Your last point is not necessarly true, but since you only except the opinion of the rabbonim who’s opinons fit your narrow view of things there is really nothing to discuss with you about it.December 31, 2008 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #636083
In a nutshell, are you actually stating that you believe there is a shred of a possibility that human being (you) descended from an ape or some other non-human being?December 31, 2008 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #636084squeakParticipant
I agree with everything Wolf wrote in that last post.December 31, 2008 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #636085AnonymousInactive
i didnt think darwin was serious i was just cheperingDecember 31, 2008 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #636086
In a nutshell, are you actually stating that you believe there is a shred of a possibility that human being (you) descended from an ape or some other non-human being?
I responded to you in another thread, titled “Shred of a Possibility.” Let’s leave this thread about zoos.
The Wolf (who is not in a zoo)December 31, 2008 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #636087
It looks like the mods didn’t like my post. We’ll have to continue this privately via email, I suppose. Feel free to email me for my response.
The WolfDecember 31, 2008 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #636088
lol you guys know each other outside the cr?December 31, 2008 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #636089jphoneMember
They must know each other from the Zoo.December 31, 2008 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #636090
Nope. I’ve never met Joseph. However, it’s not terribly difficult to find my email address.
The WolfDecember 31, 2008 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #636091
lol why what’s your name? yaakov wolf? or is it moshe or yosef?December 31, 2008 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #636092CuriousMember
Booklyn – He has a blog titled wolfish musings. Just google it. Oh, and the first ad that hit me on his blog was for Jewish singles. Maybe check it out… 🙂December 31, 2008 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #636093
oh my bad. just checked it out. lol not interested in a blog to find a husband – i’m ok single at the moment… :}January 1, 2009 12:44 am at 12:44 am #636094
brooklyn19, we don’t want you to become an old maid. Please. Hurry.January 1, 2009 1:51 am at 1:51 am #636096
lol why are you more worried than i am? just to ease you’re anxiety: even if i get old, i’ll never be a maid :} feel better now?January 1, 2009 2:01 am at 2:01 am #636097
c’mon, you’re no youngster anymore. We’re only trying to help, with whats best for you.January 1, 2009 3:09 am at 3:09 am #636098
hey i never said i don’t wanna get married. but i’m not desperado and i’m not gonna flip for some guy just cuz i NEED to get married. he’ll come when he’s sent. i highly doubt i’m gonna meet him online.January 1, 2009 3:20 am at 3:20 am #636099
oh and what makes you think i’m no youngster? you actually have no clue as to how old i really am. am i right? (well maybe a clue. but not much more.)January 1, 2009 3:46 am at 3:46 am #636100
you are mistaken.January 1, 2009 3:47 am at 3:47 am #636101
brooklyn19: we do know aprox!!!!January 1, 2009 3:50 am at 3:50 am #636102
joseph, mistaken about what?
and asdfghjkl – that’s the clue. now what can you deduce from that?January 1, 2009 3:51 am at 3:51 am #636103
Joseph: your being mean to her!!!January 1, 2009 3:52 am at 3:52 am #636104
rusty, more than just approx.January 1, 2009 3:53 am at 3:53 am #636105
brooklyn19: between 19 & 24yrs old i say!!!!!January 1, 2009 3:53 am at 3:53 am #636106
brook: once and for all, how old are you? Please tell!January 1, 2009 3:53 am at 3:53 am #636107
She’s just tryin 2 make us curious, right?January 1, 2009 3:55 am at 3:55 am #636108
abcd, please don’t force her to embarrass herself. you never ask an alte maidel her age! for shame, where are your manners?January 1, 2009 4:05 am at 4:05 am #636109
between 19 and 24? (…or was it 17 to 38? i forgot…) anyway, even if you’re gonna go with the 19-24 range that’s still 6 years.
so Mr. Brilliant Joseph know-it-all: final question: How old is brooklyn19 really?January 1, 2009 4:07 am at 4:07 am #636110
me? embarrassed? that’s a new one! (except for new threads, of course… :})January 1, 2009 4:16 am at 4:16 am #636111
it’s so funny i feel like i know all ya cr people so well!!!!!!January 1, 2009 4:18 am at 4:18 am #636112
brooklyn19: just tell us!!! tell us please your real age!!!! i’m 26!!!
joseph: spill it too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!January 1, 2009 4:19 am at 4:19 am #636113
asdfghjkl, do you talk about us to your friends irl?
“Chaim, last night qwertyuiop said a funny vort…”January 1, 2009 4:21 am at 4:21 am #636114qwertyuiopMember
joseph thanx i like to be funnyJanuary 1, 2009 4:21 am at 4:21 am #636115
Joseph- guess what?!?!?!? I’m also a 19+something year old “alte maidel”January 1, 2009 4:22 am at 4:22 am #636116
Joseph: why do ya talk about your secret life in the cr to your friends????January 1, 2009 4:22 am at 4:22 am #636117
LOL Joseph – good one. try pronouncing asdfghjkl, lkjhgfdsa, qwertyuiop and the likes.
and yes, i noticed you avoided my question. i’m a teacher, remember? i notice subtle (or not so subtle) things…January 1, 2009 4:24 am at 4:24 am #636118
abcd, sounds like the number after the “+” is bigger than the number before the “+”January 1, 2009 4:25 am at 4:25 am #636119beaconParticipant
abcd, welcome to our club. You can join in the “wannabe shadchan” threadJanuary 1, 2009 4:27 am at 4:27 am #636121
23January 1, 2009 4:30 am at 4:30 am #636122
abcd – you gotta know how to do it. just say your age randomly. and change it every time. lol i think it worked for me.
here’s the deal – when i get engaged i’ll let you all know how old i am.
maybe :}January 1, 2009 4:31 am at 4:31 am #636123
Nah, not a chance, Joseph. Sorry to disappoint you. I’m actually younger than asdfghjkl. So I guess that kinda puts brooklyn and I in the same age bracket. What do you say to that?January 1, 2009 4:32 am at 4:32 am #636124
ouch! 23???? please don’t take on any murder cases, Failed Sherlock.January 1, 2009 4:35 am at 4:35 am #636125beaconParticipant
no way! I say around 20January 1, 2009 4:37 am at 4:37 am #636126
brooklyn19 is 22?????January 1, 2009 4:38 am at 4:38 am #636127qwertyuiopMember
so now guess my ageJanuary 1, 2009 4:54 am at 4:54 am #636130
Brooklyn, when you get engaged, you’re gonna direct all of us to your page on onlysimchas so that we can post you many gr8 big mazal tovs from the cr.
(and then I get to use my network of friends to find out how old you are…)
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