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My Father z”l used to say:
אבי מען לערענט
All this talk that using Artscroll is not “lomdish” not “Yeshivash” “will never become a Talmud Chachim” “will never remember” is all a bunch of word salad and means absolutely nothing …
If you want to learn … do what’s best for you and don’t listen to any of those comments above
Now, with every one B’H having big families and the boys learning different mesactas, a father will never be able to keep up or learn with his children, even if he is a Rosh Yeshivah, without using Artscroll…
I am 100% positive that when Rashi first came out …people that learned Gemarrah with Rashi were made fun of ..
At the end of the day as long as one is learning …that’s all that counts ….
I unfortunately have 2 children OTD …….
One came back after 10 years and the other is on his way back
I browsed some of the answers above … So I’m not sure if someone already discussed what I’m about to tell you.
What I did was the following:
I spent every Friday, just me and him and went to sightseeing places …Believe me I have seen every single zoo, museum, park etc … I took him to ball games ….
There were times that we went to all these places and we didn’t exchange one word …..
but I decided that I am going to enjoy my self …
I did all that so that I would never lose the connection ….
I know every one tells you to love him unconditionally ….
I just couldn’t and I didn’t pretend … but I did have fun with him ….
I sat him down and told him my values and told him openly that I don’t respect his…but since he is biologically mine,I will never ever abandon him and will help him with what he needs …..
Since he was still a young teen … I asked if he wanted to go to a “Hebrew” school that wasn’t that frum… but I figured …better that than hanging out … and told him that I will support him if he wants to learn a trade …
He did go to that school that taught him “Zionist” theology …
but you know what??? he started to come back ever so slowly …he started to relate to “Tu Beshvat” Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur …and came to the seder ….
One important thing that he told me that worked …since he is B”H back … and got married and is a very frum productive yungerman ….
that he noticed that when he walked with me wherever and even when he wasn’t wearing a “kappel” I was still introducing him everyone as my son …. and everytime I introduced I kissed him on the cheek…
he said that worked …
But daven .. daven… daven ….
Where does it say in the entire Shulchan Aruch that you cannot shave?
It says you cannot take Haircuts!
In fact The Mekubal Harav Moshe Dovid Valla, a Talmud of the Ramchal claims that not shaving or trimming the beard during Aveilus, and Sefirah is a “goyishe minhag.”
See Shu”t Chasam Sofer (YD 348) who says that the Poiskem’s intention was only for the hair of the head and not the beard….
To Joseph that posted:
flatbusher: You’re selfishly assuming he isn’t working. He may be working and his income still not covering the expenses. (Or he may he have a legitimate reason to not be working. Yes, such reasons exist. Don’t assume there isn’t a good reason.)
Flatbusher and the rest of the working Klall Yisroel can smell a rat when we see one.. Yes we can assume that he is not working…. because as we all know “the facts are very stubbern” and the facts are that 99.9% of 19 year olds collecting dont have a job because their Roshei Yeshivos want them in Yeshivah! I dont give those guys a penny, but yes I give them plenty of advice!
syag- accroding to you these people are still being lifnei iver on lo sachmod. according to me though lo sachmod does not mean that you should not what others have for yourslef also, it means that you should not want their personal items. So its a lose – lose either way you look at it.
No one is Over on lo sachmod… you are only over this issur if you stole something, then you are over 2 issurim… lo sachmod and lo signov..you cannot be over on something in your heart!
To Write or Wrong
He went off the derech at 18, I never found out why…. but he was in Israel learning and he had told my wife that he has Hashkafa problems, also he was telling her that he even felt bad for the Palestinians. I took the next plane out and told him, if he has Hashkafa issues, he can have them in the USA, I packed his bags and took him back with me….he didn’t say one word on the 11 hour flight…
but I now believe that he got in with some bad kids, and I believe it was the pot that screwed up his brain. When I told him that, he would say that pot is safe… but as he got weaned off pot I saw a complete change, both in his return to Hashem and to us….I also think that the time that I gave him on Fridays showed him that I cared very much for him.
Giving him the car was a way for me to find out how bad his addiction to drugs was, the deal was that I would have him tested randomly, and I found out from the lab that he was only on pot…. but believe me once he was off pot because he wanted the car so much, he changed..
Also, after our Friday trips, I would drop him off at Ohr Samaich, and told him to just hang out there for an hour and I would then pick him up. He met a Rebbi there by the name of Switiczky that was learning there on Fridays by himself and he took an interest in my son, and my son became very attached to him…
my son says that the trips and R’ Switizky saved his life…
but I think it was his stopping the pot…
I would advise you to have him tested for drugs…
The way I did it, the very first time, was to tell him that the Insurance Compny requires a checkup, and I called the Doctor and told him to check him
to write or wrong
I just noticed your post. I had a son who went off the derech 2 years ago, became a mechallel shabbos and basically slept all day and hung out all night…. we took him from therapist to therapist and he refused to open up.
One day I decided that I would spend every Friday with him. I took him to the Zoo, the planterium, Jewish museum, etc etc..
He would be totally silent and refused to communicate with me. It was very very uncomfortable as you can very much imagine.
He would smoke pot day and night!
One Friday, I decided that I couldnt take the silence anymore and i didnt want to go anywhere with him.
We used to leave around 9:00 Am every Friday for our trips.
This particular Friday, he suddenly texted me around 2:00 PM, (Im in the same house) and asked, are we going anywhere today? That’s when I knew I had him… and so we renewed our Friday Trips, even though it was very difficult for me to take off from work. On our trips I would put on the CD’s called “Carlebach Stories”, and he would tell me that these stories never happened, trying to get me into an argument, but I was thrilled since he started actually conversing with me…. and I told him, that he doesn’t have to believe the stories, its not Torah, but its entertainment, and so slowly we would start talking about Hashkafa, with him questioning the Existance of a Higher Being, and you cannot imagine the pain that I had, but he was talking, and i would validate what he said, and I would give him politely my answer.
Slowly but surely I asked him to come shabbos to shul, not to daven but for kiddush, for kugel etc… and he came…
I am a magid shiur in my shul, and you cannot imagine how I felt when he would show up to shul for kiddush with his open shirt to his navel, but when he showed up, I would run to him and put my arm around his shoulders and thank him for coming, eventhough I wanted to strangle him…
He then asked for a car, and I said I would lease him a brand new car on 2 conditions, A) that he passes a drug test. and b) that he doesnt drive the car on shabbos…
He waited 6 months took the drug test and passed and he got a car…
once he was off pot, I noticed small changes for the better every day
To make a long story short,
Today he learns in Israel day and night, he is a masmid and doesn’t even possess a Kosher phone. The only way I communicate with him, is when he borrows a phone every Friday to call me..
So be Strong, I had actually given up on him and withing 1 year, things did a 360 degree turn…
if you want to contact me, ill be happy to discuss in more detail what we did…
But don’t give up