Dear Yeshiva World,
Two days ago, I was on the subway when a man approached me (not frum). He asked me “are you fasting today?”.
I said yes.
We started talking and then he started telling me the events of why we were fasting on Asara B’Teves. I guess showing to me although he’s not “frum” he follows and knows about Judaism.
I’ve been out of yeshiva for five years, I do learn every night……but completely forgot what Asara B’Teves was all about.
I happened to bump into five people later that day, and asked each one if they know why we fast.
Four out of five totally forgot.
I did feel better but I realized that its sad…….What are we accomplishing by fasting, if the day has no meaning?
I’m curious how many people forgot, and perhaps you may want to post a little recap of the fast day.
Thanks for your great service.
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41 Responses
I did not forget.
1. Siege of Yerushalayim, II Melachim 25:1
2. Septuagint (8 Teiveis)
3. Ezra Hasofer’s Yahrzeit (9 Teivies)
I’m not sure why you felt better that other people didn’t know either.
If you’re still beating yourself up, let me just tell you that several years ago a good friend of mine (a totally frum person) actually forgot to FAST on Asara B’Teves.
If your’re fasting and you don’t recall why, remember that except for Taanis Esther, all the fast days are somehow connected to the Churban, so the fasts are a reminder of the galus that we live in every day (we shouldn’t need reminding, but…)
I heard a great d’var Torah on Asara B’Teves a few years ago, and will try to sum it up here. (sorry, but I do not remember the source, though Pupa sounds familiar)
Asara B’Teves is different from the 4, Day-Fasts.
It is the only one that, “If it were possible to fall on Shabbos, would be Docheh Shabbos and we would fast on Shabbos.”
Why?
What other “minor fasts” are Doche Shabbos? None, EXCEPT TANNIN CHALOIM.
Hmmmmm…. why is that?
Well, a Taanis chaloim is because the warning of something bad going to happen, is a call to do teshuva, to avert the bad. So, a Taanis Chaloim is a fast for the present/future instead of a memory of the past.
The other “Minor Fasts” from Tziom Gedalia Ben Afikam to even Tisha B’Av, are to remember tragedies of the past. The churban habayis, or the murder of Gedalis ben Afikam, etc.
But isn’t Asara B’Teves the same? It is commemorating the siege around Yerushalayim! Isn’t that a tragedy of the past?
NO! It is much more than that. The siege of Yerushalayim was Hashem’s giving klall Yisroel “One more chance” do to teshuva. If they had taken that opportunity, the siege would have ended, and the Churban would have been averted.
We say, every dor who does not merit to have the Bais Hamikdash rebuilt in its generation, “K’Ilu nechrav” it is as if it was destroyed in their generation.
Asara B’Taivais is the call to Teshuva IN EVERY DOR! to get THIS dor to do teshuva and to merit the rebuilding of the Bais HaMikdosh, and to avoid it being nechrav (destroyed) in this dor.
So, just like the Taanis Chaloim, it is A FAST FOR THE PRESENT/FUTURE to avert a tragedy, not just a memory of the past.
That is why if it could fall on Shabbos it would be Doicheh Shabbos.
Well, each of us can’t force teshuva on the rest of klall Yisroel, but we can do it for one little part of the klall.
Let us do our best to return in complete teshuva in the zchus of this Asara B’Teiveis, and pray that we in this generation will help this generation merit the rebuilding of the Beis Hamikdash.
I think this reader’s point is even larger than he one he is making. How can one go through his day, his year, his life by just “going through the motions”? What kind of chiyus can we get from Yiddishkeit when a Shabbos, a Yom Tov, a Taanis, have no meaning and no “taam”? What kind of message are we giving our children?
I think for those of us who are no longer in yeshiva, it is especially important to us to utilize these times of the year, whether it is a Yom Tov or a Taanis to give us the needed “boost” in Avodas Hashem to continue forward. How different would our lives be if we truly understood and lived a Chanukah, a Sukkos, or a Asara BeTeves? If we used the opportunity to walk away with a chizuk in our Avodas Hashem? If we say selichos with Kavanah (which the reader obviously didn’t because he would have then known the reasons for Asara BeTeves)woudln’t the day be differnt? etc…
YW, thanks for the interesting post.
Gut Shabbos Mendy!
(I have a bigger problem – I actually LIKE to fast… so it’s definitely harder for me to focus on the meaning of it.)
Anyway, here’s my method: I ask my little sister why we fast. It’s unfortunately only the elementary school-age kids who still know the reasons behind some basic parts of our lives.
Refresher course, anyone?
Why stop there? Why not ask how many people know what they are saying everyday when they daven?
Use the English side in the Artscroll Siddur…
It was also the day Yeshiva World posted kosher cheeseburgers
One of the slichos that we say on each fast contains a list of the reasons for that particular fast. All we have to do is follow along with what we are saying.
Not a coincidence that one comment details the Septuagint as a reason for fasting on Asorah B’teves, another suggests davening from an Artscroll english transalation of the siddur. While almost all Artscroll are wonderful aides to yiddishkeit, why is the Artscroll gemorah not a modern day septuagint?
the long explanation of asara beteves and that it would be doche shabbos is based on the avudraham and the chasam sofer , zecher tzadikim levracha , in the drashos.
thanks for the issue
We should also realize we are fasting for “Kalfus” who was niftar on 9 teves. This is alluded to in Megilas Taanis as “not knowing why” which they had to do due to censors. He was the person – on our side – whom the Chachomim put into the Yoshke camp to sway them further from true yiddishkeit. Up until then, the religons were very much the same except that the yoizelniks beleived that the “mossiah” already came.
i think people are so much into food that they are only thinking about the fact that they can’t eat & are tuned out of everything else.
note to “Shazam”:
Why did you choose that moniker?
11, the difference is that the Septuagint was imposed on us from without, certain translations had to be finessed, among other things. Artscroll filled a need from within, and while we may bemoan the lack of general knowledge, it strives for authenticity and doesn’t have to pander to outside viewpoints.
18. that is an apologist talking. reason why it was a calamity was not because translations had to be finessed. It was the fact that it had to be transalated. One of the many reasons given by the meforshim of the problem is that the need for learing with a mesorah from a rebbi became redundant when everyone who could get hold of a talmud became a self taught expert themselves. This is something that is now prevalent with the artscroll. everybody is a baalhabos over gemarah without hardly an effort.
To #1 Also Yoshkeh was born on the 9th 0f Teves.See M’gillas Tanis Last page last line of Tosfes chadoshim.
#12 daas_yachid
Thank You, Thank You, Thank you for the mokor. Now I remember, I heard it on a tape I picked up in Satmar Tape Thingie… you know, the $1 tape gemach they Satmar has, and now that you say it, that was exactly the mokor that the darshan quoted. There was more to it, obviously, but this part that he quoted from the Chasam Sofer/Avudraham, I remembered. I love it. I always made me do more than “just not eat” on 10 Teves, since I heard it.
to MT MEHDI (#14)
It would probably solve the shiduch crisis, tuition crisis, and global warming.
DM was quoting from the Chasam Sofer and the idea is that on Asara B’Teves we are judged for the future whether the Bais Mikdosh will be built this year. It’s not one last chance. It’s a yearly event to arouse us to achdus yisroel b’avodas Hashem yisborach so that we should be zoche to hashrayas Haschina.
May we be zoche to bias hamashiach bimehera biyamenu.
“out of yeshiva…” i hate to say this but many bachurim in some yeshivos also don’t know. in general many are missing alot of torah hashkafa & aprpciation for y we do what we do. i surely do NOT blame their rabbeim – theres only a limited amount of time & most of it needed for gemara … [unlike the girls who have spend much more time learning about these inyanim].
Big Chiddush!!!
Of course nobody knew, because they don’t know when in Yeshiva either. Ask ten random yeshiva guys and at least five won’t know why we fast on Asarah B’teves.
That’s why we call it Mitzvos Anashim Melumada. It’s sad but completely unsurprising. I always say if you would meet a Chr-stian divinity student who has been in religious college for five years and ask him about basics of his faith, you’d be shocked if he wouldn’t know all the answers, “I mean after all, you learn this stuff, how come you don’t know it inside out?”
But you can find tons of yeshiva guys who are in post-high school for five years who don’t know anything.
Why? Cuz they don’t really wanna be there. Their parents, the system, peer pressure, shidduchim force them to be there. Nebbich.
If they’d work all day and learn for 2-3 hours, they’d know more than they do today, because they’d be learning more and interested in what they’re learning.
I’m not criticizing the genuine learners among us, or suggesting that learning less than the most important thing a person can do. But to keep guys in yeshiva when they don’t belong there is a shanda.
Thank you DM for a wonderful vort. I wish I would have heard it before Asara B’Teves so I could have been more awake, so to speak, to doing teshiva. Halevai that we should all do teshuva for what we’re doing wrong.
It’s not all tznius, mt. mehdi. We each have stuff we should be working on. Looking at other people and noticing their flaws is a waste of time- time that we’re supposed to be using to fix our very own selves.
.
Everyone is really mechuyev to find out about each particular taanis as it arrives. If one is really interested and wants to know the meaning, there are places available at our fingertips to find out the answers!
Every real responsible Jew or ben-Torah has a Jewish calender. Every real frum Jew goes to daven every morning. There are selichos,Torah keriyah ,’V’y’chal” so how hard is it to remember? Anyone who just learns a minute a day should learn the halochos pertaining to the day so should know. Do you know why you eat? (and betch?. I can hardly believe the whole posting.Maybe if you’d open a sefer instead of spending overtime on the internet,you’d know.Are you aware of what time to daven,why and what? I HOPE so!
TurkeyNeck, you seem to have an agenda; Kollel and Yeshiva and peer pressure have nothing to do with guys learning gemara and not focusing on certain yesodos and navi, etc.
Why not be honest and say “I believe the current kolel/yeshiva system is wrong”, and not disingenously imply that guys would know what Asara BiTeves is if only they learned 2-3 hours a day rather than being in Yeshiva.
#14-
I take extreme offense at your comment. What right do you have to be saying such a thing?! Tznius is an issue, yes, but how can you make such a broad statment as to say that with the improvement of tznius, Moshiach will come?!! Have you ever thought about the terrible things that come out from the whole new craze on tznius? “Oh, her skirt is WAYYY too short!”. “Her neckline is too low”…..It’s called LOSHON HARA! Loshon Hara breeds sinas chinam, and why was the Beis Hamikdash destroyed? SINAS CHINAM!
Don’t you DARE make such a generalized comment without some serious internal check-up first!
—This letter is right on target! People are so thrilled to have a day off, or a short fast, that they lose sight of the real meaning behind the day. It HURTS me to think that there are people out there who have no idea what this day is about! WE SHOULD ALL BE CRYING!! If we don’t feel the pain, why should G-d give us back what we NEED?!!
Take a moment to think about all those people who died, probably thinking that at least the future generations would still feed the flame of Torah. We can focus on all the crises’ in the world, INCLUDING tznius, shidduch, and sinas chinam, but we must remember the priceless legacy that we have to hold on to. Our dreams are sliding away really quickly, and we have got to focus on the true meaning of life, and why we are here on this good earth.
To gemorakop thank for another great and bright post with much toichen.It seems you were away for a while as i missed your insightful comments, as many others did too im sure.gut voch.and whoever mendy is send him regards too.
“Have you ever thought about the terrible things that come out from the whole new craze on tznius?”
#30- Wow. My mouth literally dropped open upon reading your comment. New craze on tznius. Wow. Not that the styles today have brought tznius to terrible new lows, and people, seemingly unaware (and I assume that they ARE unaware- hence the attempt to raise awareness) are dressing in ways that would have made the gentiles of yesteryear blush. But the New Tznius Craze. There is too much mussar going on regarding tznius. Wow.
I don’t know why you “took offense” at 14’s comment. Although I do not think laymen, including #14, have any place to state with certainty why “Mashiach is not here yet”, and I therefore disagree with the comment, why the “offense”? Did 14 advocate saying loshon hara? Perhaps 14 is a mechaneches who is dismayed at the lower tznius standards of talmidos, without saying a word of loshon hara? Why the strange presumption of lashon hara without evidence?
There are leading rabonnim that have made statements supporting #14’s comment. There was a recent series of speeches about it, I’m sure you can get the speeches from kol halashon since I did. It may help you realize no one is trying to offend any one, just help the situation improve for everyone’s sake.
Ask ANY frum Jew living today in Yerushalayim and they will tell you. I guess when you walk on the very same hills where it all happened and live right next to the churban (on the “southern kotel” you can see actual scorched stones from the beis hamikdash II itself that have been lying there for 2000 years since they were tossed over the side by the Romans.) When you live and breath all this you don’t forget.
But when you live 6000 miles away among the goyim you become detached… sad.
I have a “custom” that if I cannot remember what the reasons for an upcoming fast are, I look it up before the fast. How shameful is it to fast and not know why!!
The Sefer Ha’Todaah (Book of our Heritage if you need the English version by R’ Eliyahu KiTov)is an easy resource to use. It is clear and easily understandable.
To # 32: I can explain what #30 was saying.
It seems today that all of yiddishkeit hinges on dress.
Whether by the girls’ necklines and skirt lengths or by the boys looking yeshivish (hat and jacket) or else they must be on the fringe.
Yiddishkeit is about having a relationship with Hashem. There are 6 mitzvos that are “temidios” which means that we have to think about them the whole day. How about these?
The article here was about the fact that so many of us have forgotten what these fast days are about. The long galus combined with the current luxurious living and peace that we experience makes us forget what the true meaning of yiddishkeit is about.
A statement that if we had tznius all our problems would be over is silly.
If all of us would have a good relationship with Hashem then maybe this would bring about the achdus that we so lack to bring the geula but a statement about tznius was out of place here.
I would go further and say that if we would concentrate more on fixing the pnimius and inspiring the children to have a relationship with Hashem, most of the tznius issues would be solved because when you are close to Hashem tznius is natural.
#32 “the gentiles yesteryear blush”
halevai! there are gentiles & secular jews TODAY
who are appalled by the very “not-jewish” styles of dress. With all the talk today about kiruv – many secular jews dont understand how frum jews can dress the way they do. they are turned off…
Thanks very much for all the divrei Torah generated by this (pertinent) posting! It was interesting to note how the original letter came about: because a Yeshivish man was approached by a Jew whose level of observance was different, who wanted to make a connection. That was a very positive occurence.
Now, although the tznius issue may seem only a divergence, if the “frummer” guy was dressed differently would this meeting have taken place? Also, there is more to being tzniusdik than simply how one dresses (although that’s a major part of it). It’s a matter of behavior and character, too. People can dress very tzniusdik and still act or talk pretty prust; but then the disconnect between look and action is very obvious, and more likely to be commented and possibly worked on. If a very aidel person for some reason chooses to dress in a non=tznius fashion, the disconnect is less obvious and to their detriment, because they are less likely to be taken at their true value, at least at first glance. (ANd they probably would be less likely to be approached by people such as the man on the train who started this whole post, and we all would miss out on communiques like this thread.)
People who dress tzniusdik don’t necessarily ACT that way. Tznius in behavior is just as important. And who are we to judge WHY Moshiach has not yet come? There is enough wrong with the world to make a l o n g list. We always look at the ‘other’ guy. The guy in the mirror IS the other guy.But it IS the responsibility of EVERY practicing Jew to know why he does things and how to properly do them.;and not just to brag to others how much better he can learn than the other fellow.
to #38 “a very aidel person… chooses to dress in a non-tznius fashion”
Oiy Veih !! go ask any talmud chacham he will tell u theres no such thing as a truly aidel person who dresses in a non-tznius fashion!! it’s a contadiction .
That person who dresses non tznius’dik is surely lacking eidel’keit in his character!! [although on the surface it may seem otherwise.] don’t be fooled!
An agenda? I don’t know what you mean.
But I very much support Kollel, I was in Kollel for eight years and I count myself among those who learn much better now outside of Kollel than within. I wasted a lot of time.
And not just on Tanach inyonim, on Gemara and halacha as well.
There should have been tests and a rigorous weeding-out process so only the serious would be there, and those who were there would be serious.
And don’t kid yourself, i was considered very good, even Rosh Chabura for two years.
But I know the truth about what I could have accomplished.
in the girls’ schools they drill it into the heads of their students when they’re still young & that’s how we remember. I’m out of school for a while already & of course I know the reason why we fast!
do u know why we read the megilla on Purim?
why we eat matzoh on Pesach?
etc. etc.
things taught/studied well in the younger years, are simply harder to forget.
Why is the Yeshiva blamed. By the time you’re 18 or so, you should have matured enough to realize that you can’t be spoon fed everything. Yeshiva bochurim have an obligation to use their brains and put in some effort on their own. Don’t blame the Yeshiva. That is the typical excuse of this generation, which is the most affluent and most free in history – blame someone else for your failures. Particulalry, with the proliferation of so many seforim in English, the only reason for someone graduating a Yeshiva not being familiar with why you fast is laziness. You should be asking yourself why you have not applied yourself and exerted effort to become competent. In 120 years, when you have to give a din vacheshbon, I do not believe that the excuse that the Yeshiva never tested you will get you far.
38 & 39″:
There are people who dress non-tzniusdik and have much better manners and behavior than those who wear so-called religious,tzniusdik clothes. There are non-frum Jews band goyim who will alwatys hold the door,greet,never use foul language,etc and there are those who wear a suit,tie white shirt ,black hat, some with peyos,some not,who use foul 4 -letter word language,make dirty jokes,don’t greet,don’t hold a door. So do not be surprized that that so-called non-frum-looking person knows about the halocho and the ta’anis and the arrogant frummer does not. I see this all the time.