Tens of rabbonim affiliated with the dati leumi community on Thursday morning, visited Har HaBayis to mark Yom Yerushalayim. The group was headed by the Chief Rabbi of Kiryat Arba HaRav Dov Lior Shlita.
Some 30 rabbonim took part in the visit. The rabbonim were briefed by authorities ahead of going on to the site, told that anyone who pulls a paper from a pocket or closes his eyes will be removed from the Holy Site. In line with directives from the Islamic Waqf Authority, non-Muslim are prohibited to daven on “their” site.
It must be noted that according to the Poskei Hador one is absolutely forbidden to visit the Temple Mount, and there is an Issur Kares for one that goes there.
Three years ago on Sukkos, Israeli President Shimon Peres paid a visit to the Sukkah of Maran Hagon Rav Elyashiv Shlita, where Rav Elyashiv called on the President to prevent Jews from visiting Har HaBayis, stating it is an act that that is viewed as extremely provocative by the goyim. Maran stated everything possible must be done to avoid a religious war, and the provocateurs are playing with fire.
Maran is quoted as explaining to the president that Halacha forbids going onto Har HaBayis but today, it is more than this, it is an act that may lead to a religious war and bloodshed.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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14 Responses
It used to be that even their radical Zionist “Rosh Yeshiva” R’ Tzvi Yehuda Cook was against getting close to Har Habayis, but when the way starts deviating from our Mesorah as time goes by the distance grows and they go further and further… May Hashem help us reverse things to do proper Teshuva.
Rav Lior is also a posek, of sufficient stature to argue with those who forbid it. There’s no such thing in Torah as קבלו דעתי; until a Sanhedrin can resolve disputes among the poskim each one is entitled to his psak din, for himself and for all those who follow his psokim. Remember that according to those who hold like Rabbenu Tam about when the day ends, most of us are mechalel shabbos (even those who wait till 72 minutes after sunset and ignorantly call it “Rabbenu Tam”).
If we are going with Mesorah than Rav Moshe in IGROT MOSHE, RESPONSA OF RABBI MOSHE FEINSTEIN ZT’L, ORECH CHAIM II 113 says “But observe, there is a place on the Temple Mount where entry for tamei meitim is permissible, even according to [the stricter] rabbinical ordinance – that is, up to the cheil, which lay within the soreg”. Furthermore see the Rambam in Hilchos beis habichira perk Zayin halacha Zayin.
Also before we come to criticize other Rabbanim, let us see what our gedolim in our mesorah say about Rav Kook.
1.The Netziv – Rosh Yeshiva of the Volozhin Yeshiva – said about Maran Ha-Rav Kook: “He is equal to everyone else [in the Volozhin Yeshiva]”, “There was never a student like this in Volozhin” and “If the Volozhin Yeshiva was established only for this great student – it would have been enough.” Ha-Rav Reuven Bengis – Av Beit Din of the Edah Charedit – similarly said that the most important [student] in the Yeshiva is the son-in-law of the Rav of Ponevezh (Ha-Rav Eliyahu David Rabinowitz-Te’omim, Ha-Aderet – Maran Ha-Rav Kook’s father-in-law).
2.The Chafetz Chaim: Know that he is holy and pure and anyone who impinges on his honor will not go unpunished.
3.Ha-Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer: We are Gedolim until we reach his doorknob
The list goes on…..
No Milhouse! the Mesorah of Klal Yisroel for the last hundreds of years was not to go up their, and Lior is not in a position to undo that. The Gr”a was the Gr”a and he had sholders and svoras to say what he said and the Geonim and some Rishonim also held like that. Also, the Gr”a’s motives were purely Halachik, while Lior’s motives are political (Zionistic).
#4, since when is this “mesorah”? The Rambam went up; is that not good enough for you?
Old Fashioned Jew, You are speaking in an incredibly disrespectful manner toward Rav T.Y. Kook z”l, and toward Rav Lior, who is indeed a respected Possek, who in this matter is following the Shitas HaRaavad, who speaks very clearly against the Rambam that there is NO issur Kares today. Although Most Poskim follow the Rambam, one is certainly entitled to follow the Raavad if they have learned up the Sugya thoroughly. Its not in our position to judge whether he was politically motivated or hallachically honest. I urge you to (or the mod) to remove your comments, as they are disrespectful.
To #4 the Rambam in Beis HaBechira Ch. 6 Hl. 15 writes clearly that the Kedusha of the Mikdash never terminated and the issur Kares still applies; I would be very surprised if the Rambam had indeed went up against his own psak.
#7, nevertheless it is a fact. He wrote himself that he went up and davened in the shul which was on Har Habayis. The issur is only lifnim min hacheil, as #3 points out, and if you can be sure that an area was outside the cheil there is no issur on going there. The shul the Rambam visited was in such an area, and so are the areas where people go now.
#3 Rav Moshe Feinstein did not say that L’ma’aseh we are aloud to go up their. The following quotes that you bring are irrelevant to this discussion and the quote marks that you indicate do not mean anything as to their accuracy. You can make a list like that go on forever.
#6 there is absolutely no question that the motives for this are POLITICAL, and that the commitment is purely to a foreign ideology that is not Torah based they call it: “Zionism”.
Old Fasshioned Jew…
Forgive me, but you suffer from an affliction called arrogance. Speaking poorly, publically no less, about Rav Kook who, people much much greater than you or I have lauded and shown great respect for is a disgrace. What gives you the right to speak that way? You dont agree with his stance on the State of Israel and now you have the right to lamblast him? You then move on to Rabbi Lior and do the same thing. You don’t have to outcast anyone you dont agree with. Are you always right? Have you ever been wrong? Even if you are right on these issues and they entirely wrong, you’ve handled yourself with know-it-all smugness and that’s far from a virtue. Do you treat your wife, kids and parents like this too everytime they might be in the wrong? You may want to learn a little mussar before posting again. A little humility goes a long way.
Let me guess: you’re going to respond that I’ve done to you exactly what I just told you not to do. I’m pointing out that you should treat people respectfully, even when you dont agree with them. Your point in the post was to make fun of people (“rosh yeshiva”) who dont fit your agenda. Thats the difference.
וכן מצאתי בסוף שיטה אחת שהעתיק הנעלה ר’ שמואל בר אברהם שקייל ז”ל בעכו מכתיבת יד הרב רבינו מאור הגולה [הרמב”ם]
וליל אחת בשבת שלשה ימים לירח סיון, יצאתי מן הים בשלום ובאתי לעכו וניצלתי מן השמד והגענו לארץ ישראל. ויום זה נדרתי שיהא ששון ושמחה ומשתה ומתנות לאביונים, אני וביתי עד סוף כל הדורות. ויום שלישי בשבת, ארבעה ימים לירח מרחשון, שנת כ”ו ליצירה, תתקכ”ו, יצאנו מעכו לעלות לירושלים תחת סכנה , ונכנסתי לבית הגדול והקדוש והתפללתי בו ביום חמישי, ששה ימים לירח מרחשון. ובא’ בשבת, תשעה בחדש, יצאתי מירושלים לחברון לנשק קברי אבותי במערה. ואותו יום עמדתי במערה והתפללתי שבח לאל יתברך על הכל, ושני הימים האלו, שהם ו’ ותשיעי במרחשון, נדרתי שיהיו לי כמו יום טוב ותפילה ושמחה בה ואכילה ושתיה. אלקים יעזרני על כל, ויקים לי נדרי לה’ אשלם אמן. וכשם שזכיתי להתפלל בה בחרבנה, כך אראה אני וכל ישראל בנחמתה מהרה, אמן
[ספר חרדים מהדורה תרל”א עמ’ 49]
#10 and all the rest protesting my disrespectful attitude,
So fine I take back the denegrating attitude leave that out and let’s deal with the issues themselves.
1. The Mesorah HAS been this way for the last hundreds of years there is a reason why people go to the Kosel and not into Har Habayis.
2. The Language in that letter may need to be understood. The “Bayis” if it was the Beis Hamikdash obviously did not exist at the time. Surely, the Ram”bam does not mean the shikutz on Har Habayis. I beleive some feel this is referring to what we know as the Churba Shul.
3. As HaRav Elyashiv said we are not aloud to go up their for it causes war and we are not aloud to do so in a time of Golus. The “dati Leumi” Rabbi’s are going up their under the illusion which they are constantly trying to perpetuate as if we can end the gzeira of Golus in our own hands before Moshiach comes. It’s not because they discovered the Ra’avad. (Also, “not a chiyuv Kareis” does that mean there is no issue in going?)
#12, Give me a break. The Churba shul, in 1265?! Do you think we’re idiots? Nor could it have meant any other shul that might have existed then; what would make any of them הבית הגדול והקדוש? It can only mean a shul that existed on the Har Habayis.
So why didn’t people go up there in the last few centuries? Did it occur to you that the reason is very simple: the Turks didn’t allow it?
My mistake not the Churba shul. In any case the idea of a shul that existed on Har Habayis sounds very new to me, and, frankly, a bit wild.
The basis of our Mesorah not to go up is of course what we know for sure the Ram”bam wrote in Mishneh Torah and what the Kesef Mishneh writes there and the rest of the poskim who sided with that position. The Mishneh Torah is obviously the more authoritative source of the Ramb”am and that is what we follow.
There are various ways to explain the letter even if we were to assume that there were no mistakes or misprints or mistranslations or any other type of misunderstandings in this letter. In any case these are beyond our scolp here, and the main point which applies here is that which Harav Elyashiv said, and which the Ramb”am writes at the end of Iggeres Teiman, that we are not to trigger any wars with the nations so long as we are in Golus before Mshiach comes. Going up to Har Habayis these days is a violation ot that.