United Torah Judaism MK Gafni wants to see young secular engaging in Torah studies for each yeshiva student joining IDF. ‘Torah is the justification for our existence here,’ he explains
Knesset Member Moshe Gafni (United Torah Judaism) said Sunday that he is in favor of drafting Charedim into the Israel Defense Forces, as long as each student leaving his yeshiva will be replaced by a young secular studying Torah from morning to night.
Speaking at the Caesarea Economic Forum in Rishon Lezion, Gafni said, “I’m in favor of young Charedim enlisting in the IDF. I am in favor of an 18-year-old student from Ponevezh Yeshiva halting his studies, taking a kit bag, traveling to the recruit center and joining a combat unit.
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20 Responses
if you live in a country that has mandatory public service, then you must serve. Malcus Medina.
All yeshiva boys can continue their learning through the Hesder program. This is the way to strengthen Israel through service to G-d and country. I personally feel that not taking advantage of the Yeshivat Hesder is a cope out for not serving and only brings about animosity from the non religious and from the religious who do serve.
We have a obligation to defend the land in which we live.
We have to remember that our country is a country of Jews and sacrifices must be made to defend a Jewish live.
A yeshiva boy who has the strength of Torah and combat training is the soldier I would want to defend me. He truly knows why he is fighting and will be given Brachas from H”B for defending other Jews.
Mr. Gafni is wrong. One cannot quantify limud haTorah by saying “You leave a lifetime of Torah learning b’hislahavus and join the army while some am ha’aretz sits in a beis midrash, staring at the walls, for an equal period of time.
Tit-for-tat doesn’t work with Torah.
Lol
“…replaced by a young secular studying Torah from morning to night.”
Rav Gafni LOY”T:
I sincerely hope you were misquoted by Ynet. In Torah, Eichus (quality) is more important than Kamus (quantity)!
That could actually be a brilliant kiruv tactic. Give us a month or two to make your brain sweat, and after that, you can go back to the IDF if you want. But the seed will have been planted…
Sounds like our version of Cash For Clunkers…
The Rav is being sarcastic.
A more practical solution might be to suggest that the Israeli government should consider spending time learning full time as making just as much a contribution to the survival of the state as serving in the military (it would be arrogant for us to expect the hilonim to realize that their playing soldier is, in the long run, not really significant to Israeli or Jewish survival) so that after three years of full time learning, one would be considered to have met one’s national service obligation.
really?
what about his own son?
very well said.
Would the Ponevezh Yeshiva accept a young man from an entirely secular family who has never even cracked open a mishnah, but wants to learn there?
i just learned today in gemara shabbos on page 4a in tosfos vchi omrim that we dont tell 1 person to sin to save the next from sinning a bigger sin
for sure not to do a sin that the next should sit and learn you not even preventing sins your trying to make someone do a mitzva
Hesder is not the solution. While some Torah Jews who live in the land of Israel would indeed welcome the chance to serve and to defend the land against its exterior enemies in a Torah framework, hesder is a Zionist ideological program.
Nachal Charedi is another story, and I hope that it will grow as an alternative for bnei Torah who wish to pursue goals other than full-time learning.
Incidentally, hesder is abridged service. Nachal Charedi is not unless the soldier is married.
Laughable
Akuperma is wrong. A Jew defending Eretz Yisrael from enemies who want to destroy us is not “playing soldier” and “not significant.” By many shitos, he is fulfilling the Torah commandment of milchemes mitzvah.
Whether or not serving in the IDF is a mitzvah d’oraisa, it is undeniable that for Jewish people to survive, we must have both bitachon and hishtadlus. The IDF soldier is doing his hishtadlus to ensure the state’s survival.
Frum Jews in Eretz Yisrael can decide between Hesder or Nachal Charedi based on haskafah and personal needs. But simply standing on the sidelines, or denigrating those who serve is not an option.
If this is ok with you so why not do like this, for every secular boy in idf a yeshiva bucher should sit and learn from morning to night
akuperma what would you say to Dovid Hamelech one of our greatest kings and forbear of Moshiach, Dovid himself went into battle with Torah in hand, ArlinMd I agree with you this is about Milchemes Mitzvah, Jewish line are at stake period end of story. Everything else about whether you agree with the zionist or not is not important here. When Hitler came for the Jews he did not ask if you are a zionist or a frum Jew, you were a Jew and that is all he cared about.
So wake all those that speak against serving in the army. When the Arabs came to Hebron in the 1920’s they went for the Yeshiva, and they were not trained in self defense. So should we not learn from this. A famous leader who was assassinated said it best “every Jew a 32”
There also needs to be a national service option, and not just for charedim. There is much waste in the IDF.
it’s keday to see the rest of the article from ynet, so in case you don’t want to click there, here it goes:
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“But the people of Israel have always been divided between those who worked and fought and those who studied Torah. The Bible and the Mishna both talk about such a division. So if haredi students enlist in the IDF, an equal number of young people from north Tel Aviv, young seculars, should study Torah.”
According to Gafni, the young seculars will have to study Torah all day and all night, “just like haredi students do.” He wondered whether anyone would be willing to do such a thing.
Asked by Ynet whether it would be okay for the seculars to study Torah from a non-Orthodox angle, Gafni responded: “They can study from whichever angle they want, as long as it’s from morning to night.”
The Finance Committee chairman noted that Torah studies were essential, adding that “the Torah is the justification for our existence here. Otherwise, what are we doing here on Arab land? After all, the Hashomer Hatzair kibbutzim are also located on Arab land, not just the settlements in the territories.
“We are all occupiers. Our only right to be here is that God Almighty handed out countries, and gave us this small piece of land to safeguard the Torah.”
‘Haredim are better employees’
The conference, attended by Israel’s economy leaders, was dedicated to the employment of haredim and Arabs. According to Gafni, the State must recognize haredi education as education for all intents and purposes, and force employers to hire people based on their Torah education.
“Haredi workers, the few people who do get hired, are usually better employees than regular workers due to the learning tools they receive at the yeshiva,” he argued.
Surprisingly, Gafni was supported by Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz, who said: “In principle, I agree with MK Gafni. I am in favor of professional training for haredim, and the government is acting on this.
“I am in favor of core studies, like English and mathematics, and in any case – haredi studies are studies for all intents and purposes and we must recognize that, because they train people to learn.”
Former MK Chaim Oron (Meretz) and Steinitz’s former advisor, Omer Moav, expressed their strong objection to the proposal.
According to Oron, “The core studies are the only way for all sectors, especially the haredi sector, to integrate into the labor market. If that doesn’t happen – all figures show that the more the population which does not study the core subject grows, we’ll deteriorate.”
Chill guys! I expected people to realize that the Rav was misquoted. That’s why I commented one word-lol
“the Torah is the justification for our existence here. Otherwise, what are we doing here on Arab land? After all, the Hashomer Hatzair kibbutzim are also located on Arab land, not just the settlements in the territories.
“We are all occupiers. Our only right to be here is that God Almighty handed out countries, and gave us this small piece of land to safeguard the Torah.”
If we had a PM who said and believed this as Rav Gafni does, EY would be a much better and safer place.