According to reports, “thousands” are expected to take part in Thursday afternoon Atzeres on Jerusalem’s Shmuel HaNavi Street which is being organized by the Vaad Rabbonim for Transportation.
According to a Kol Chai Radio report on Tuesday morning, Maran Rav Elyashiv Shlita and the Gerrer Rebbe Shlita will be among the participants.
It appears the major erev Rosh Chodesh event (reported HERE on YWN) represents a stepped-up effort to counter Egged’s refusal to comply with the long-standing request for mehadrin buses on lines serving mispalalim to and from the Kosel.
A kol korei is being distributed throughout yeshivos in Yerushalayim calling for widespread participation in the event.
According to a report in the daily HaMevaser, members of the Vaad met with Maran Rav Elyashiv Shlita, who handed them a special letter supporting their struggle and encouraging the continuation of the effort to spread mehadrin bus service to routes traveled by the chareidi public.
Vaad members met with a number of Admorim as well, and received endorsements from the Erlau Rebbe Shlita, Slonimer Rebbe Shlita, Boyaner Rebbe Shlita and others.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
Though I thoroughly disagree with the concept of sending women to the back of the bus, or treating them with less than the utmost respect, I understand and accept that a significant proportion of residents of Yerushalayim want such arrangements. I’d suggest one thing. Remember where you are. You had the opportunity to elect a charedi Mayor who might have been able to create a compromise on this issue that you could live with. But you, as a community, chose to divide yourself with bickering and recrimination. The consequence was that you got a successful businessman, an intelligent and patriotic mayor, who, while not unfriendly to chareidim sees them as only one of a number of his constituencies.
Instead of demonstrating, if you really believe in this cause, educate your fellow citizens about who you are and what you advocate for in positive, constructive ways. Posters on rechov meah shearim in yiddish and burning dumpsters will change NO minds. Will create NO sympathy, and will be INEFFECTIVE.
Raboisai, that’s what change is about. Not taking out your frustrations, justified or not. Not berating those who disagree with you, or who don’t recognize the authority of Daas Torah to the same extent that you do. It’s about being effective, and that means taking the time and making the effort to create a significant enough constituency that it will have to be heard, and dealt fairly with. It may not succeed, but it stands a much better chance than the usual grievance theatre.
So, you have a choice. give a geshrai about gilui araios, disrespect to daas torah, and unfair treatment, blaming of course the evil tziyoni power structure, or actually do what everyone else in every democracy in the world has to do when they want change – convince enough people to support you through education, cooperation, and compromise that either the government has to listen or you have the wherewithal to change the government. Until then, stop whining.
Looks like Egged and their ilk bit off more than they could chew.
(Egged is becoming an egg-head? LOL)
One thing I do not understand about these buses is why are the women in the back. It is more difficult to get to the back of the bus and the men should go there.
Excellent #1, I submit my vote for your POV.
“I understand and accept that a significant proportion of residents of Yerushalayim want such arrangements”. — DO NOT BELIEVE that this is a TRUE STATEMENT, significant can mean 10% on this issue.
aren’t there better things to worry about – if you don’t like the busses, walk or get a taxi.
anyway, berlin walls in busses sound silly as:
i) what if you want to sit with and talk to your wife/mum/daughter on the bus?
ii) what if a woman wants to ask the driver something?
iii) what if the bus is really busy with men and few women, or vice versa?
iv) what if there are men sitting near the front and pregnant/old/with lots of shopping women forced to stand.
u are obviously are not an idiot; but u also obviously have no real understanding of the issues in yrslm nor the channels that have been tried & the differences bet. the society & mind set, & politics that comprises jlm today, vs. the society etc. that u live in, in the usa.
im repeatdly amazed at comments such as urs -people who [“project”] see other cultures only as they see & undrstand their own. [similar- lihavdil- to abama’s nieve perception of the iranian presidrnt & moslem culture]
btw these busses service chareidi areas esclusively, & b”h almost all chareidim follow the gedolim who are behind this campaign.
#6, allow me to reply to your excellent questions.
i) you take a taxi
ii) she can go to the front of the bus and ask the driver
iii)the men sit closer to the back
iv)the women are never forced to stand because the younger women will always give them their seats.
PS. What do you do if want to sit with and talk to your wife/mum/daughter while you are in shul? Do you remove the mechitza, or do you try to get your talking done at home, etc.
#1 you have all the suggestions and berate those who are standing up for Dass Torah. You forget that you are also against Dass Torah, period, as you find yourself wiser than they about how to deal with these situations.
Aside from that you do a lot of preaching but forget that there is a system recognized as the status quo which recognizes the need to respect the original coomunities that existed in E”Y prior to the state. That includes Shabbos observance to a certain extant. No pure democracy could exist anywhere If you think you can vote on each issue. And thus, for that matter the moderate Chiloni who understands the unique circumstances of the Chareidi will still vote for the party which still represents the issues that are most inportant to him and com ci com ca.
I’m sure you are also aware that Eged put all possible blocks on creating an alternative bus…….
#10, yoh yoh, nisht nishtgeshtoigen, I am not berating those who stand up for Daas Torah. I am asking them what success their current tactics have brought them. Do you think that Rav Steinman and Rav Elyashiv want to make noise or make change? Respecting them, I obviously feel that they would want to actually accomplish their goal rather than just watching amcha protest about it with no results. I’m berating those who stand up for daas Torah with no plan and no expectation for success other than their self righteousness. Remember “ein somchin al hanes”? If you think that the gedolim expect a light bulb to go off in everyone’s head suddenly changing their minds on this issue because tens, hundreds, or even thousands of chareidim are demonstrating in their own neighborhoods YOU are undervaluing their obvious wisdom and great intelligence. Perhaps they feel it is important to motivate their core constituency on the issue with this. I don’t presume to know. But expect a policy change? They are smarter, wiser, and more down to earth than that.
By the way, by following a different shitta and having a different perspective on the issue as many Rabanim have, i’m not AGAINST Daas Torah. If I was, I would be standing on Shmuel hanavi with a placard in my own mini counter demonstration.
Also BTW, I don’t expect a vote on every issue, and it is a very simplistic approach to think that you develop a constituency or a consensus overnight. It takes time and effort. It takes readiness to compromise on issues important to partners so that they will support issues that are important to you.
Finally, respecting the original communities that existed pre 1948 is noble but has practical limits. It also requires the descendants of those original communities to recognize that there are five and a half million other Jews in the country who deserve reciprocal respect. Kovod habriyos. It’s not an original concept. Try it sometime.
Many of us yerushalymis will not be attending this rally, will be in yeshiva, mosdos, at home, working etc. Be aware that there are gedolim, rabbanim and rebbeim that have not made this issue #1 for them. It is mainly an eidah hachaeredei agendah.
To #1, I do agree with some of the points that you mentioned about voting, however i don’t think even one (real) participant will read your letter, and anyone reading your letter most probably can not vote. So speaking hanging posters on Meah Shearim in Yiddish, placing letters on the internet in english will not change any minds that you are targeting.
to #1 & # 11
please read my comments in #7
it was written to u. ive already answered all ur points there.
Eli Lev, effectiveness is a universal term. either you accomplish your goal or not. if your goal is to make participants feel theyve spoken up, kol hakavod. if your goal is to change policy, it doesn’t matter that there are cultural or societal uniquenesses. do what works, and rallys like this dont work.
Let me see if I understand this clearly….
Since men cannot control their eyes, some ladies cannot get on the bus.
Wow. That is weird.
Probably these ladies are going to the kotel for kedusha and to talk to G-d.
Maybe some lady in pants has a heavy heart and wants to unload her burden to G-d, give a real cry or pray for somebody. But she is restricted (or has to wait for a later bus) because some men will look at her – who says they have to look!!!
This just seems wrong.
#16, I was under the impression that there are also regular buses, although that may be wrong. But as others have said, those who don’t want separate seating can get a cab.
“rallys like this dont work”
sorry ur mistaken rallies like these DO work!
u may not know it from reading the charedi media but speak to the veteren experienced askonim & chareidi politicians & theyll perhaps reveal to u the effectiveness which is apparent [only] behind the scenes.
i would just like to clear up a few issues here. firstly most of the people commenting here don’t live in Israel. #6 clearly illustrates this point when he says that there is less seating on the back of the bus then the front and what about pregnant women etc. on the longer buses there is actually MORE seats for the women then men. Another point-in any other country in the world, people respect others wishes. i did a tour of london a few years ago and part of the tour they went into a church (i didnt go in) they asked that everyone remove their headgear as a sign of respect, and people from EVERY part of the world were happy to do it. now go to the kosel AND ASK JEWISH people to cover their heads, they start screaming BRAINWASHING, FREE COUNTRY, etc.
#16 obviously has no clue what he is talking about as REB MOSHE paskened (by the way this is the same reb moshe that everyone relies on the heter of cholov stam) that it is OSSUR to walk outdoors unless absolutely necessary because of the issurim involved. EVERYONE knows the gemoro that if there are two ways for someone to get from a to b and he chooses one where there is a woman there, he is a RASHA even if he doesn’t look. also about the rallies thing-again it is ignorance that i hear. rallies DO WORK- think of bar ilan closed on shabbos because of GER, think of all those people that get out of tickets because they start yelling at the cops!!!
dont be ignorant
yacr85 – Isn’t this the same Reb Moshe zt’l who paskened that one is permitted to ride the NYC subways? Maybe you have your own version of the Igros.You obviously did not know Reb Moshe, nor will you ever understand him.
“Another point-in any other country in the world, people respect others wishes”– This is a two-way street respecting other people’s wishes.
“they asked that everyone remove their headgear as a sign of respect, and people from EVERY part of the world were happy to do it”.—Sort of like asking everyone to stand quietly (daven, sing to yourself, recite the 13 ikurim of emunah, etc.) during the siren on HOLOCAUST day in memory of the kedoshim and people from EVERY part of the world are happy to do it. YEAH, SURE!!!