YWN published a report on Wednesday -from the Israel Hayom Daily – regarding a statment that Maran Hagon Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv Shlita made regarding enforcing the gender segregation on buses in Eretz Yisroel.
Today, that report is being called a lie by the Posek Hador’s grandson.
The report had stated that after being informed of Tuesday’s protest in Meah Shearim, at which Chareidim refused to let an Egged bus pass through their streets since the bus did not provide separate areas for men and women, Maran Hagon Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv Shlita said that “gender segregation cannot be enforced in the public realm”.
The article quoted R’ Chaim Cohen, a longtime aide and driver to the Posek Hador, which said “Reb Elyashiv feels that it is laudable for a private company to separate men and women, but it is impossible to obligate a public company to adopt this standard. You can attempt to persuade them, you can explain to them that it is a wise financial move, but you cannot force a public company to do something like this.”
This morning, the Chadrei media in Eretz Yisroel was singing a different tune, and quoted Rav Elyashiv’s grandson Rav Aryeh Elyashiv. The new reports state that Rav Aryeh told his grandfather about the report to which the posek hador answered, “that it is completely untrue and must be refuted”.
(Dov Gordon – YWN)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
25 Responses
Wow! This clearly means that the posek hador, Rav Elyashev, strongly supports segregated buses, that he felt very strongly that he must strongly refute the claim he said otherwise.
#1 No, maybe it means it was a lie that he said you should try to persuade them! Nothing is clear at all about what was meant.
the Yisrael Hayom is a treif treif newspaper, and nothing there can be believed about the Torah
i’m very surprised that YWN even bothered quoting it
how about asking rav elyashiv…
it means that you can’t trust hearsay until you hear it yourself
That is not clear at all. All it says is that it is NOT true that he said that.
the PR for gedolei hador is broken
lets take a lesson from PR companies and maybe the words of the gedolei hador wont be so contradictory and confusing
One can also conclude, since his grandson did not say what the Ravs opinion is on the matter, the Rav chooses not to make it known. Once he was making a statement, he could have has his grandson state his opinion too. He didnt.
This is why the psak halacha of R’ Moshe z’l is still authoritative – he published and explained the psak. Publication is critical.
Being that the chareidim in Eretz Yisrael do not recognize the Israeli government, and consider Israel to still be ‘galus’, what gives the Israeli chareidim the right to ‘demand’ segregated buses, anymore than chareidim HERE can make such a demand?
Nobody ever knows who asks the questions and where answers really come from. All we ever hear is from people who say they heard from someone else who also heard and then those people heard from people who live in Israel who read statements in a newspaper or got the statements from sources who have their own sources who then passed it on. I could be wrong on this issue but this is what I heard and i’m just passing it on.
Just heard that a statement is coming out to denounce the accuracy of the Rov’s grandson’s statement, this is what it means “Tower of Bavel”, a lot of frum Yidden in Eretz Yisroel in verbal and physical contradiction.
all it means when someone says,”I didn’t say that”.
is that he didn’t say that. don’t try to read into that exactly what his opinion on the question is.
sometimes it is better to say nothing, sometimes whatever said will be misused or misunderstood, deliberately or not.
and endless or lengthy clarifications followed by re-clarifications don’t help either.
It is poshut that segregation is preferred; the fasts of BaHa”B were decreed for not segregating properly during chol ha’moed outings in the park.
It is likewise poshut that government enterprises cannot be forced to implement such measures.
Even if the first statement attributed to the Gaon is not accurate, it is the truth; obviously it cannot be enforced in the public realm the proof being it wasn’t and likely won’t if the status quo remains so. Can and have accommodations been made? Yes to both. Should they be? Why not? Should we or should we not try to persuade them? B”H, Eretz Yisroel is a democracy – the only one in the region. Why shouldn’t they – anyone – voice their desires?
From what I understand everyone hears a word they want to hear and say this is the psak.
why believe this new statement?
aounds like there are 3 possible options here:
1) the gedoilei hador say whatever people want them to say
2) people hear the gedoilei hador saying whatever they want to hear
3) people make up reports about whatever they want to the gedoilei hador to have said
I’ll go with #2 & #3, but if that’s the case it becomes understandable that some people think it’s #1.
using the gedoilei hador to further your own political goals only cheapens them.
So basically it’s a he said-he said situation. 2 people, a talmid and a grandson with conflicting reports. Whom to believe?
Al pi Shnayim Edim Yakum Davar. That works both ways.
Preventing a bus from driving down the road and attempting to force the issue of segregation that is not a “Deoraisa” issue at all is no different than the occupy wall street mentality. Do things Al Pi Halacha – Deracheha Darchei Noam – No violence.
This is why I don’t believe the media. I didn’t believe the first report, and I don’t believe this one. I can ask my friend who’s very close with Rav Elyashiv what he heard.
1. Even a d’var ha’reshus has more cosmic ramifications than a simple political protest. In fact, divrei ha’reshus play the majority role in our avodas HaShem; b’chol d’rachecha da’eihu, and kedoshim ti’hiyu. So let’s not equate a group of shomrei Torah u’mitzvos with a group of underemployed, undereducated (for the most part), where’s my hand out from the redistribution of the wealth protestors.
2. There was no violence here (or at the (majority of the) OWS protests. Where did that statement come from except perhaps to paint a picture of the chareidim that is to some people’s liking?
Ah freilichin purim!
The entire article from the Israel Hayom which is causing this hysteria is totally false.
The protest had nothing to do with segregation.
They were peacefully protesting the very dangerous conditions caused by the buses speeding through the narrow portion Rechov Meah Shearim,
The report deliberately omitted the fact that ALL the signs held by the protesters decried the issue of safety, & had nothing to do with segregation.
The elements obsessed with the segregation , would do much more then a baby carriage…. they would smash windshields, puncture tires, etc…
This is just another chance of this secular rag, to wrongfully bash the chareidim, and sadly , as usual most posters on this site don’t think for themselves, they always have a knee jerk reaction, to spew venom on those holy Jews from Meah Shearim…
It’s elementary. The first report was the Rav’s opinion as stated and this was before the politically correct men had his grandson retract.
I’m glad the truth came out so quick this time, and Rav Elyashev reiterated his support of segregated buses.