February 17, 2009 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #656263moish01Member
jphone, nah, but his daughters were provided for by the general gmach, no? (that is, if it was tzlofchad)February 18, 2009 12:17 am at 12:17 am #656264JosephParticipant
E-Mail sent out today by the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation:
Three young bochorim, on a promise of a free trip to daven in Lejensk, delivered a package to Japan – NOT KNOWING that a seemingly frum man would put their lives in danger by making them the transporters of illegal merchandise. And were caught and imprisoned.
Japan punishes their prisoners in a most harsh manner.
The boys sit in separate, tiny cells, with no beds, no sunlight, no human interaction, no connection to the world for a day, another day of solitude, another 24 hours of loneliness, on and on and on…
It’s been 11 MONTHS with no end in sight.
Yoel Zev ben Mirel Rissa Chava
Yaakov Yosef ben Raizel
Yosef ben Itta Rivka
NEED OUR TEFILLOS!!
Don’t forget them!
Don’t forget about Yossi, the youngest, who was not even eighteen when he arrived in Japan. Alone in his cell, without nary a chair, without enough room to stretch his legs, the thin blanket to sleep on taken away every morning. Yossi, who looks forward desperately to his haircut every 2 weeks so he can see another human being, whose skin is shriveling, whom those involved declare that it’s a miracle that he is still sane, who hasn’t seen his family in half a year. Yossi, who doesn’t know if he has any hope for a future…
It is up to us, to Klal Yisrael’s tefillos, to save them!
NOW is the time to start being more careful in Shmiras Halashon as a Zchus for our suffering brothers.
And don’t forget to keep davening for their yeshua every day!!!!!!February 18, 2009 12:36 am at 12:36 am #656265YW Moderator-72Participant
join the YW worldwide daily recitation of Sefer Tehillim
as a zchus for these three boysMarch 3, 2009 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #656266cherrybimParticipant
Oh, before I forget, for all you provocateurs and prevaricators out there who like to name drop G’dolim as proof to your false pronouncements:March 29, 2009 4:33 am at 4:33 am #656268believerParticipant
the youngest boys trial was March 25.
and hes getting his verdict on May 1st.
So we have to daven before it gets late!!
The other 2 are starting in a few weeks.March 29, 2009 5:55 am at 5:55 am #656269
whats the name of the youngest boy? 🙂March 29, 2009 6:15 am at 6:15 am #656270
How old are these boys?March 29, 2009 7:49 am at 7:49 am #656271
I think the youngest one is seventeen, your age.
~a~March 29, 2009 7:53 am at 7:53 am #656272
how old are the others?March 29, 2009 8:03 am at 8:03 am #656273
the youngest one was 17, by now hes probably 18. I think, the other ones were around 20 when it happened, but dont quote me on it. 🙂March 29, 2009 8:04 am at 8:04 am #656274
Not much older, but I don’t know exactly. Why are you asking?
~a~March 29, 2009 8:06 am at 8:06 am #656275
Not quite boys then.March 29, 2009 8:09 am at 8:09 am #656276
aussie: yeshiva bochrim!!!March 29, 2009 8:13 am at 8:13 am #656278
anonymisss: I am asking because everyone makes them sound like little kids who didnt know what they are doing and are clueless about the world.March 29, 2009 8:21 am at 8:21 am #656279
Well, the guy who asked them to do this looked like one of them and being the innocent, trusting yeshiva bochrim that they are, they fell in. Hindsight is 20/20. We all say now, “What were they thinking?” But, we don’t know what happened or how it was presented to them. Who knows if we would’ve done differently had we been in their situation?
As far as being clueless about the world, they probably were.
~a~March 29, 2009 8:21 am at 8:21 am #656280
Jax: Drug dealers!March 29, 2009 8:33 am at 8:33 am #656282
anonymisss: If someone approached you and asked if you could deliver it they would be willing to pay for your flight, would you accept or be suspicious that something was fishy?
No 20 year old is cluless.
I am surprised it even got through because they usually ask on international flights if you got any packages from someone to be delivered and if you know what is in it.March 29, 2009 8:33 am at 8:33 am #656283
aussie: take that back! i know you read most of this thread, or go back and read this thread!March 29, 2009 8:36 am at 8:36 am #656284
Jax: No I havent read it recently. Why should I take it back? They had drugs in thier possesion. Did they ever let enyone know who this man is that gave them the drugs?March 29, 2009 8:38 am at 8:38 am #656285
aussie, they were told it was something (I forget right now, maybe antiques) and if it was caught, all they would have to do is pay a fine.March 29, 2009 8:38 am at 8:38 am #656286
aussie, me personally, I’m a scared-cat little girl. I run if a guy even dares look at me the wrong way.
They were very sheltered their whole lives, they really never knew from such things.
Leaving Israel, they’re much more lax about these things than when you leave America. I was in Israel twice in the past year, once they asked me and once they didn’t.
~a~March 29, 2009 8:41 am at 8:41 am #656287
anonymisss: If they were sheltered then they are probably also cautious. WHo says they were sheltered thier whole lives? They left from Israel? I thought they left from America.March 29, 2009 8:42 am at 8:42 am #656288
aussie: for starters you calling them drug dealers without knowing the complete story is 100% lashon harah! we’ll never actually know the full story, but as jews can’t just put a label like that on someone without knowing the full story! from what i’ve heard, & believe is that they had one clue what they were given to take with them! there was one or 2 people that did get arrested for giving the drugs to the boys!March 29, 2009 8:43 am at 8:43 am #656289
aussie: yeah left from israel to japan with the stuff! as kapusta said, they were told it was antiques they were givin!March 29, 2009 8:44 am at 8:44 am #656290
Jax: Great so dont daven for them to be freed. Daven that they get what they deserve and if they are innocent then they deserve to be freed, but if they are guilty they deserve to be in prison.March 29, 2009 8:47 am at 8:47 am #656291
aussie, I think that if they’re sheltered they would very likely assume that someone who looks like them is completely trustworthy and why not do a favor for another jew. They haven’t read/watched the likes of what you and I have.
~a~March 29, 2009 8:50 am at 8:50 am #656292
anonymisss: You dont know that they were sheltered. They deserve to have a fair trial not to be let off the hook because maybe they werent guilty. What if they are guilty? Do you want them back on the streets selling drugs? It may be your kid getting those drugs. How would you feel then?March 29, 2009 8:50 am at 8:50 am #656293
aussie: how about just davening for them, without all the other stuff your saying! these people are still jews never the less!March 29, 2009 8:51 am at 8:51 am #656294
aussie, even if they are guilty, (which I personally don’t think they are,) they are still jews and we must do everything within our power to have them freed.March 29, 2009 8:51 am at 8:51 am #656295
Jax: Madoff was jewish too, but he stole billions of dollars and now he is going to prison for it.March 29, 2009 8:54 am at 8:54 am #656296
kapusta: Jews who sell drugs should be in prison, not out on the street selling drugs. Bieng jewish doesnt mean your innocent. Technically dinah dmalchusa dinah so they need to follow the law and im pretty sure that means the consenquences that come with breaking the law.
It may be your kid getting those drugs. How would you feel then?
Please answer the question. Would you want them free?March 29, 2009 8:55 am at 8:55 am #656297
aussie: we can’t start playing g-d & make up our own cheshbonim!March 29, 2009 8:58 am at 8:58 am #656298
aussie, you’re 100% correct. If they are innocent, they should be freed and if they are not innocent, they should get what they deserve. (That reminds me, who said this quote: “Don’t worry about what you don’t have, just be happy you don’t get what you deserve?”) No, I wouldn’t want anyone selling drugs to my kid. The thing that people are worried about is that if they were innocently trying to do a favor for someone, that person should be punished, not them. The problem is that who knows if they will have a fair trial or if that person will be brought to justice? Besides which, just to argue, prison is not a halachically recognized form of punishment.
~a~March 29, 2009 8:58 am at 8:58 am #656299
Jax: Exactly why you should daven that they get what they deserve and not that they get thier freedom this way god will give them what they truly deserve.March 29, 2009 9:00 am at 9:00 am #656300
aussie, I think that would be, jews who sell drugs, those jews would know about it. These boys did not know they were transporting drugs.
You have a point, so maybe I wouldn’t want them completely free. But, maybe something like house arrest is ok.
*kapusta*March 29, 2009 9:04 am at 9:04 am #656301
kapusta: You dont they that they didnt know. You can not believe what someone says about themselves. That is why they get a trial to determine if they are innocent or guilty which is exactly what they are getting.March 29, 2009 9:04 am at 9:04 am #656302
The point here is that they were couriers used to deliver the drugs from one dealer to the next. The argument is that the did not know they were carrying drugs.
Should a FedEx driver be arrested if the box he is delivering contains an illegal substance?
Granted it isn’t the same, but these boys were not on the playgrounds selling narcotics. Drug Lords often recruit deliver people “or mules” to do the deliveries for them because:
1) Less likely to be flagged and:
2)The Drug Lords don’t care if these people get arrested.
Sometimes, they even give them a tiny amount, and then call the authorities in the arriving airport so that they get arrested (and the mule with the large load will go unnoticed).
Daven that these naive boys obtain their Yeshua immediately, and Never, EVER, take an unknown package from ANYONEMarch 29, 2009 9:06 am at 9:06 am #656303
Mod39: The question is did they really not know? We cant know that. They deserve a fair trial and that is what they are getting.March 29, 2009 9:07 am at 9:07 am #656304
aussie, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. And why say they were guilty over innocent?
*kapusta*March 29, 2009 9:08 am at 9:08 am #656305
Aussie, Don’t you dare compare an American trial, with a Japanese trial. Likewise don’t compare American sentences and jail with Japanese sentences and jail.
Its like comparing a house cat with a White Bengal TigerMarch 29, 2009 9:11 am at 9:11 am #656306
kapusta: I am not saying either.
Mod39: I dont know. I have never witnessed a Japanese trial.
All I am saying is dont daven that they get freed. Daaven that they get what they deserve.March 29, 2009 9:16 am at 9:16 am #656307
aussie, they didnt do anything willingly. Had they known they were carrying drugs, do you think they would’ve taken it?
One more point, Japan is known to be especially tough with drug cases.
*kapusta*March 29, 2009 9:17 am at 9:17 am #656309
Mod39: I dont know. I have never witnessed a Japanese trial.
Do you often talk about things you have no clue about?
All I am saying is dont daven that they get freed. Daaven that they get what they deserve.
I’m davening that Hashem judges them with the Middas Chessed, rather than Middas HaDin. I’m also davening THAT THEY DESERVE HASHEM’S CHESSEDMarch 29, 2009 9:22 am at 9:22 am #656310
Do you often talk about things you have no clue about?
Yes all the time in fact (and it is intresting to see how often the other person doesnt either have any idea what they are talking about and end up agreeing with you), but it has nothing to do with what i am saying.
Thats not the same as davening for thier freedom which is what everyone is saying to daven for. Everyone seems to think that they are for sure innocent, but you should realize there is the chance they are actually guilty.March 29, 2009 9:25 am at 9:25 am #656311
kapusta: Maybe they knew they were taking drugs and went willingly because they were drug dealers. I am not saying that this is for sure the case I am just saying it is a definite possibility.March 29, 2009 9:30 am at 9:30 am #656312
aussie, I’m asking you a question that you asked me before (somewhat)
How would you like it if you were the father of an innocent boy and people kept on going against you? In Japan, there is very serious punishment for something like this.
One more question, why would they be interested in taking drugs to Japan where they probably don’t know too many people, or to lizhensk, where they were ultimately headed?
*kapusta*March 29, 2009 9:34 am at 9:34 am #656313
I wouldnt like it but that doesnt erase the fact that they could be guilty.
How should I know. Maybe they were selling to a drug dealer there.March 29, 2009 9:35 am at 9:35 am #656314
Aussie, Why the need to vilify?March 29, 2009 9:35 am at 9:35 am #656315
MOd39: What does vilify mean?March 29, 2009 9:37 am at 9:37 am #656316
aussie, I’m not trying to incriminate you, but the point is you dont know. And until we do know, we cant say they’re guilty.
(I apologize for sounding so strong!)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.