July 22, 2014 11:40 am at 11:40 am #613258
Ok, the title is just to grab your attention.I don’t think this will actually solve the shidduch crisis, and it does not necessarily need to be an app.
But let’s say there was a database, or really just 2 lists – one list of boys, and one of girls. Each list would just have factual
information – name, age, location, education history, current occupation, etc. And there would also be names and numbers of references for each individual. The lists would not be public – if you are a boy and put your name on the boys list, you get access to the girls list, and vice versa.
Now, assuming these lists existed and were equally populated with lots of names, and temporarily putting aside logistical or other problems:
Would such a thing be helpful? People often talk about ‘waiting by the phone’ for someone to set them up. Well, now there would be something proactive to do – go down the list. Maybe you have a connection to one of the references, and can call them and ask about this boy/girl who you are preliminarily interested in, based on their factual information.
Again, maybe this would only marginally improve the shidduch situation. But if we do enough little improvements, maybe we can get somewhere.July 22, 2014 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #1024409
I think this has been suggested before.July 22, 2014 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1024410HaLeiViParticipant
Sure it is helpful. In fact, it is exactly what Shadchanim do.July 22, 2014 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1024412
It should be an app. Like a guy can drive from lakewood for a date and then he gets to flatbush and doesn’t want to date her. So he loads the app and it shows him other girls in that area, and maybe he wants to date one of them instead, so he messages her through the shadchan part of the app and she says yes and they go out and build a bnbear.July 23, 2014 1:16 am at 1:16 am #1024413
How about people creating shidduch videos like in that story that was meant as satire?July 23, 2014 1:24 am at 1:24 am #1024414
Popa: We can put that on the paid version of the app.
Heleivi: The difference between this and what shadchanim do, is: a) that the individual who is dating (or his/her parent etc) can look at the list themselves; and b) ideally the list would be created by many shadchanim merging together their own listsJuly 23, 2014 1:35 am at 1:35 am #1024415
DY: This is similar to WIY’s suggestion from your third reference, although I think that the database should have factual information only and not a complete shidduch resume.
The point here is not to rule someone in or out based on the information in the database. The ideal use would be to find out that someone you have some connection with is a reference for a potential shidduch.
So you might filter for: NY area, age 23-25, attended YU, and then look down the list at the references and go from there.
The reason I think this is better than posting shidduch resumes online is that many people might be reluctant to do that, while just posting some basic factual information and the fact that you are dating may be more acceptable.July 23, 2014 7:05 am at 7:05 am #1024416YW Moderator-42Moderator
The app should not have a full resume. Just name, age, height, weight, father’s net worth, and of course a pictureJuly 23, 2014 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1024417
People should be able to lose weight without an app.
(Sorry if someone said that already; I didn’t read the thread.)July 23, 2014 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1024418OfcourseMember
Some good ideas here. The only way any idea can get off the ground is someone researching and coming up with a clear outline of the idea and then bring it to a highly respected Rov and getting a Haskama. Otherwise at least fifty people will criticize and knock it down.
Someone mentioned all Shadchanim trading resumes. Someone “SB” is already doing that. Hes amazing!July 23, 2014 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1024419YU JewMember
The technology already exists. Apps such as Tinder and Hinge employ this method of matching people.July 23, 2014 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1024420
The problem with a public database is that it would be very incomplete.
Shadchanim sharing lists sounds like a good idea, but that’s very different than the OP’s suggestion of a list available to anyone, which is not a good idea.July 23, 2014 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1024421appdevParticipant
As an App Developer I just though I’d pop in and share my thoughts.
I get 1-2 people each month coming to me with Shidduch related app ideas. Last month someone presented me with this exact idea. These are all great ideas and interesting ways to utilize the mobile platform.
There is one caveat. Developing an app takes time and money. (I’m working on a project right now with about 10 people on my team. We’ve been working on it for close to 3 months already.)
An app like this needs minimum 5 people. 1 Project Manager, 2 Mobile Designer, 3 Web Developer, 4 Android Developer, 5 iPhone Developer. A project of this scope would be approximately 1-2 months long.
So basically you need to pay 5 people for 2 months. Not everyone will be busy for the entire duration of the project, but we are talking about an expense of 15k-25k (depending on the exact specifications).
This would be a useful tool in the Shidduch market, all we need is haskamahs from Rabonim. Once a Rov is behind it then donors will fund it.July 23, 2014 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1024422
appdev: I assume you are referring to my idea. The other ideas don’t need an app–they just need the database. Access to the database can be a simply dropbox folder.July 23, 2014 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #1024424appdevParticipant
Yes. This project must be location based, otherwise it is useless.
You should be able to see prospects in a 5, 10, or 20 mile radius and arrange to meet.
People can fill out questionnaires and the software can match them with suggestions in their vicinity.
If we are only talking about a list, then people can just use Google Docs.July 24, 2014 2:11 am at 2:11 am #1024425
It could be accessed via dropbox, via a website, or via an app.
The point is that there would be a list, as large as possible, of people who are in shidduchim and a way to follow up on those who look worth following up on. Personally I think it should be just a list containing factual information; no pictures, no resumes, and no technology matching people up with each other.
There have been a couple of suggestions to get a haskama from Rabbonim. While that is a good idea, I don’t know that it’s necessarily the first thing that needs to be done. If a significant number of shadchanim thought it was a good idea and would agree to combine their lists into this one, that would be a good start.
To be clear, I am talking about actually doing this – this is not a purely theoretical conversation. So I would especially like to know what singles and shadchanim think of the idea.July 24, 2014 2:29 am at 2:29 am #1024426
Please stop changing the topic. We’re talking about an app that could save you time expended on a trip to Brooklyn for a “dud date” by providing you with an awesomer pick-up date. Nobody cares about some stupid list for stupid shadchanim.July 24, 2014 2:45 am at 2:45 am #1024427
Except maybe the stupid boys and stupid girls who can’t get any stupid dates.July 24, 2014 2:52 am at 2:52 am #1024428
But they could get dates.July 24, 2014 9:05 am at 9:05 am #1024429RandomexMember
It should be an app. Like a guy can drive from lakewood for a date and then he gets to flatbush and doesn’t want to date her. So he loads the app and it shows him other girls in that area, and maybe he wants to date one of them instead, so he messages her through the shadchan part of the app and she says yes and they go out and build a bnbear.
We’re talking about an app that could save you time expended on a trip to Brooklyn for a “dud date” by providing you with an awesomer pick-up date.
You seem to have forgotten that people generally do research before dating someone…July 24, 2014 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1024430
Maybe people shouldn’t do research. If you date enough random people, you might find a shidduch.July 25, 2014 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1024431RandomexMember
Okay, I’ll re-post myself. I’m not about to edit the whole thing to remove all references to speed-dating, though… sorry.
So, why can’t we reverse the stages of the shidduch process,
having people speed-date to select for compatible
personalities/”chemistry”, and only then doing research to
decide whether to pursue the shudduch with normal dating,
rendering the entire shidduch system more efficient?
Well, here’s why. Now, even if you personally disagree
with everything in the excerpt below, you must concede that
this is the accepted hashkafah in the community.
Excerpted from “The Kuntris” (Torah magazine)
Volume 1, Issue 13 February/Adar Aleph 2014:
“The Da’as Torah Files – The Shidduch Disaster”
(The piece begins on page 40 – excerpt is from pg. 44-45.
The writer is Nosson Sternbach, but he notes that the ideas
originate from the Shabbos table of Rabbi Gershon Ribner.)
A Googling of R’ Gershon revealed that he is a talmid of
Rav Aaron Shechter of Chaim Berlin, an eidem of Rav
Schneur Kotler ztz”l, and Rosh Yeshiva of Nesivos
HaTorah (on Staten Island).
The premise of the article: A boy arrives for a shidduch,
and the father realizes that all his information was about
another boy (with the same name). What should he do?
Answer: Inform him of the mistake and send him off
(politely, delicately and with sympathy, of course).
Short version: It is not tzniusdig
for a boy and girl to meet without some level of
expectation that this can lead to marriage.
Speed-dating will definitely involve meeting
numerous people of the opposite gender who are not
compatible with you and is therefore unacceptable.
Also, a positive first impression may override research
for those personally involved – the boy and girl.
“The fundamental difference between dating in the Torah
community and the rest of the world is our insistence that
all matches must be set up through a system of referrals,
aka a shadchan. Secular culture feels that there is nothing
wrong with a boy and girl meeting on their own to determine
their compatibility; in fact such intermingling is encouraged.
Many fences have been built by the Torah world to separate
us from that depraved culture. One of those fences is the
absolute insistence on a shadchan.
[O]ne must understand the Torah’s perspective on dating.
Any contact with the opposite gender is considered a
“danger zone.” However, in the context of searching for
one’s zivug, such meetings are encouraged and considered
a holy act.
Note: I think I should “call ‘shortzoah’ ” here.
This is pretty obviously not found in any classic
sources, which date from the period – namely, until recent
times – when young people did not meet to “determine their
compatibility” for marriage AT ALL. Talk about it later?
Yet, there is a fine line between “kosher” dating and
In America we are so immersed in pritzus
that it is hard to appreciate any form of sensitivity in
this matter. Our barometer of what is and is not
tznius is so corrupted that any attempt
at introducing an element of modesty in our community
is viewed as extreme and abnormal.
In the Torah world, boys and girls do not meet haphazardly
and arbitrarily in the hopes that two people might “click”.
Rather, we set up a system of referrals to ensure that if two
people meet, there is a reasonable chance that this shidduch
is appropriate. Only in such a context do we encourage the
opposite genders to interact with one another.
It is a scientifically proven fact that we form most of our
judgments of a person during the first few interactions
that we have with them. Somebody with an engaging
and charming personality can easily distort their date’s
judgment of them. All later research […] will be swept
aside and only the positive qualities will be remembered.”
Note: This is about the scenario of a
full date with a random person, not a speed-dating
encounter. That might make a difference.
That’s that. Additionally, I’m sure many would say
that people would not be given enough of a chance
by such a system, and would be rejected too quickly.
Additionally, people would not be motivated to travel
long distances just to speed-date, so if the entire system
changed, many shidduchim would be pre-empted.July 25, 2014 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #1024432
Anyone who would follow that advice is clearly not m’zera avraham avinu.July 25, 2014 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #1024433
Most people only remember bad things.July 27, 2014 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1024434nystatetrooperParticipant
It sounds like a dating website where everyone lies and dangerous stuff happen
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