Are you a Ka'eylah Jew?

I once saw in the ???? ????? that someone who says words loud with the ??? ????? is showing off!

I never grassped why this is so, but if the ??? ???? says it, there must be a reason for it!

Good post. I differentiate here between the laining and Chazanus. As a part time lainer, I hate that singing along, it is distracting and you are trying to make no mistakes, or in some cases you have to remember certain trops,or pronounciations, if you don’t know them real well. I don’t like any talking at the Bima either,sometimes the Gabbai has to do something.

For Chazanus, to be honest, I will sing along, only in 1 Shule where I am related to the Rav and feel a comfort level, and its also a small minyan, AND, it’s a very long davening, and he speaks alot, so there is a level of boredom by Mussaf. Other places I would just go out for a break if bored, there I can’t do that so easily.

I have a real question and don’t mean to be making fun of anyone’s post by asking the q.

In mid of chazaras hashatz if there is not allowed to be talking, is there allowed to be singing? I daven in a shul where there is gorgeous singing, where all the men get very into it. Is this not allowed to be done?

Please don’t tell me to go look it up because I am female and would likely not understand a word I am reading.

Flatbush Dude: It was sincerely the latter. I really DO agree with you. Have a Good Mo’ed.

Isn’t Ka’eileh only on Pesach?

Happiest: A lot of people say it’s not and their reasons are pretty strong. But the Minhag is very strongly not to be Makpid on it.

Don’t forget about the Simchas Torah versions of “ka’eyleh” – the end of each aliyah at the laining of ST night. It seems to me that “V’heim alfei Menashe” is an even bigger, more prominent ka’eyleh event than Ka’eyleh itself. Any good baal koreh knows to pause right before these words.

I have heard that a certain adam gadol used to be the rov at one of the sleepaway camps. He would say Shema with the trop, and since he’d finish after everybody else, everyone could hear him laining the last part out loud. When he would reach “V’lo sasuru” the entire camp, or a large portion of it, would sing it together, out loud.

If I recall correctly, the only problem the Rosh had with saying words along with the Chazzen is that you might say Hashem’s name, too.

When I am by the Amud I appriciate the humming along, as it gives a positive feedback that all is going well.

However, I think Krias Hatorah is worse. Ignoring the Baal Koreh is like ignoring the voice from sinai. So sayeth the Sefarim.

Josh31: I appreciate knowing that someone is paying attention, but it’s still a little annoying — especially the people who pipe up with ka’eleh several words before I read it. As for Rosh Hashana mussaf, I’m not a chazzan (too young and can’t really sing) but the nussach provides many places during chazaras hashatz for people to sing so the chazzan can catch his breath including between all the uv’cheins in kedushat hayom.

“pipe up with ka’eleh several words before I read it”

You are going too slow, and they cannot use a buggy whip on Shabbos or Yom Tov. 🙂

Ok, Ok, I admit it. I am a full-fledged, ko’eiyleh jew, I sing along with the chazzan’s mussaf, and enjoy breathing in the mixed smell of spring flowers, shmurah matza and Mom’s charoses. What is this tumult all about?? Ko’eiyleh is Koydesh Kodoshim!

Personally as a baal Tefilla I enjoy when the oilom joins in with the special Yom Tov niggun by Chazoras HaSha”tz and everyone gets “into it”. It’s beautiful! As far as Ko’eiyleh is concerned, Les Man D’polig, it must be said B’Kol Rom! In my shul, there’s not a soul that doesn’t sing that one out loud! It’s what makes Pesach Pesach! Forget Matza, morror, and co. If you don’t say Ko’eiyleh in my shul you would be deemed a koifur b’Ikar l’chol hadayos! And if a guy would c”v lein Ko’eila with a rev’ii or segol, (*inhales loud*) he’d be thrown out on his head, and be put in cheirum forever

For those who want the Mishna Berura’s perspective:

“Not only is it assur to say the whole bracha along with the chazzan which is a bracha levatala, even to choose random words (to say along) with him is incorrect because of the concern that the entire bracha might just flow out of his mouth. And surely those who raise their voices and sing along with the chazzan which is like arrogance and they should be rebuked because it is like kalus rosh.”

M.B. 124:16

“And surely those who raise their voices and sing along with the chazzan which is like arrogance and they should be rebuked because it is like kalus rosh.”

Claiming that such a practice is not in any way halachically problematic, let alone praiseworthy, would seem to also fit into this category of arrogance.

Just saw this thread and figured Pesach was a great time to revive it. Anyone notice the “ka’ayleh” pandemic growing, or is it pretty much the same as always?

I think that people generally get a lot of simcha out of doing it, so I don’t even know what to think.

if i was a baal koreh, just for kicks I’d read ‘ko’eileh’ with a revi’i trop

hee hee

not that I am an opera star, but in my leining career, I used such an artistic azlahgeresh, that an educated tzibbur would wait for it without interrupting.

I just noticed this topic.

If you don’t have money for food on Hol ha-Moed, of course you can sell your hat!

I don’t know of a Kehilah that doesn’t sing liberally with the Chazzan throughout Chazaras ha’Shas of the Yomim Nora’im. Is this wrong l’Fi the Mishnah Berurah, or since the Minhag is to sing these words and only these words, perhaps there is no Cheshash that one will say the whole Berachah, and it is not Meichzi k’Yuhara?

yerushalmi in exile: Nah, you’re just trying to rationalize it.

“I don’t know of a Kehilah that doesn’t sing liberally with the Chazzan throughout Chazaras ha’Shas of the Yomim Nora’im. Is this wrong l’Fi the Mishnah Berurah, or since the Minhag is to sing these words and only these words, perhaps there is no Cheshash that one will say the whole Berachah, and it is not Meichzi k’Yuhara?”

See Sha’arei Teshuva 582:7

good thing we are discussing this before SUKKOS

chevra we are watching history in the making!

On another thread I predicted that in a few decades. All sorts of reasons for this heilege minhag vasikin would be given.

I was wrong!

I heard from Rav Shlesinger in monsey a reason for this minhag (I dont remebmer it) This minhag is taking off faster than expected!

Feel free to give your opwn reason

Heres’s mine:

Ke’eileh is a roshei teives for the four pesukim of geulah in MEgilas esther:

Kuf- ki mordechai hayehudei

Alef – ish yehudi

Lamed – layehudim

Heh – Umordechai hayehudi (It starts with a vav which is only one letter away so its ok)

Your favorite time of the year is Pesach, Shavuous, and Sukkos. Why? Well, during leining when they get up to “ka’eylah” you can no longer keep your exuberance contained. You must scream out ka’eylah! when the ba’al koreh is up to it.

Guilty as charged. When the ba’al kriah gets up to that point, I say it out load. True, I don’t scream it, but I do say it loud enough for everyone to hear. So far, no one has complained about it.

The Wolf