October 18, 2020 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1911131
Surveys of charedim have suggested that about 10 or 15% of Charedim plan to vote for Biden. I’ve seen other surveys in which about 20% of Charedim describe themselves as liberals or democrats.
It may not sound like many, but this amounts to tends of thousands of people, whose voices are seldom heard in Orthodox media. It’s important that people understand there is political diversity among frum yidden. (For one thing, this may help with both outreach and in-reach. According to polls ba’alei teshuvah are more liberal on average than FFBs.)
So I wanted to start this thread to give Charedim planning to vote for Biden a chance to explain themselves, and make their voices heard.
If you’re charedi and voting for Biden, please respond to this thread, stating 1) your affiliation (Yeshivishe, Chassidishe, or something more specific), and 2) why you’re voting for Biden.
I don’t mean this question in the sense of “What’s wrong with you for voting for Biden?” And I’m not trying to attract posts from Trump voters questioning how anyone could ever vote for Biden. I just want to hear from charedim voting for Biden.
Thanks!October 18, 2020 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1911244
Read the Open Letter of Rav Shafran on his website. Character trumps Trump.October 18, 2020 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #1911253GadolhadorahParticipant
What about us “MOs for JOEs”???? We have a “big tent” and would welcome some Chareidi baal tshuvahs (politically speaking).October 18, 2020 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #1911256BoredInBrooklynParticipant
Voting against trump because the long term loss of civility which he creates is worse than the short term gain from hving him in office.October 19, 2020 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1911356Rats Rats DemocRATsParticipant
As an Orthodox Jew who has been a life long activist on behalf of Jews, I can’t understand how any Jew votes for Biden. He openly tells you opposes Jews settling in post 1967 Israeli borders. That means giving off up Chevron and kever Rochel and the kosel. Talking about civility. He yelled at Prime minister Menachem Begin as many recall. Acting nice was best done by the cultured Germans. We know how organized and cultured they were. In an age where America faces serious anarchy if democrats are in charge we can not go blindly into the voting booth.October 19, 2020 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1911369
Gadolhadorah: Good point, but I didn’t ask about MOs because it’s more common. (A poll suggested the Democrat/Republican split among the MO is about 60/40 in favor of Dems. It also seems out-of-town Orthodox Jews are less pro-Trump.)October 19, 2020 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1911417GadolhadorahParticipant
I understand that the support for Trump, even among the more frum/Chareidi voters declines asymptotically as one polls at greater distances from Woodbridge Oaks, NJ, the halfway point between Monsey and Lakewood. (The exact latitude and longitude coordinates are 40° 34′ 45″ N and 74° 19′ 52″ W). Perhaps these yidden have a more expansive view of domestic and global issues that are important to them beyond moving a brass plaque on a building from Tel Aviv to Yerushalayim .October 19, 2020 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1911430Avi KParticipant
Reb Eliezer, have the new revelations about Biden and his son changed your assessment? Besides, actions speak louder than words. Compare their records. Compare the Democratic and Republican platforms.October 19, 2020 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1911472
What is the Rebublican (being in a bubble) platform?October 19, 2020 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1911525jackkParticipant
I find it sad that you and the rest of the trump crowd feel that a supposed revelation about Biden’s son from Trump’s personal lawyer that was not picked up by any newsworthy organization due to it being unverifiable and probably a complete lie is a reason not to vote for Biden. The NY Post is the NY National Enquirer. A complete and total rag.
Trump who was impeached with objective witnesses and verifiable testimony does deserve your vote ?
Chareidem not voting for Biden should just sit this one out.
As Reb Eliezer pointed out there is no republican platform. They have a slogan and a hat. It is more a cult than a political party.
Trump has destroyed the US so thoroughly that the Justice department , National Security and Intelligence , the Senate are all there to protect him and not to serve the people of the US.October 19, 2020 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1911528🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
was not picked up by any newsworthy organization due to it being unverifiable and probably a complete lie
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣October 19, 2020 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1911533sifsei chachamimParticipant
I am taking you at your word that this is an honest question, so I’ll take the time to respond.
I am a conservative (ffb) and I will be voting for Joe Biden. I find Trump’s behavior too erratic for the the office he holds, he does not have the maturity necessary for the pressure cooker he is in. Until Covid is has not been tested with a serious crisis, and I don’t think he is handling the crisis well. Nor do I think he’s an effective president. His only major piece of R legislation were the tax cuts.
I think he is a compulsive liar, he has terrible a character, his (not so) private life is reprehensible, and I don’t think he’s an honest man. (This is also a tiny percent of my issues with him.)
His greatest sin in my mind is fanning the flames of hatred and division in this country, that is unforgivable. As president he should seek to lower the temperature and the volume not stoke it.
I’m not taking away from the positive things he’s done. Namely on Israel, judges, standing against socialism (Maduro), his pro business policies but it’s time to move on from him. His hero status in our communities bothers me tremendously. As Jews we should only view non Jewish politicians through a transactional lens, we must not look to him as a model.
I’m fully aware that a Biden presidency will be bad. Bad for America, for the Jews, and for Israel.
In the United States we tend to swing back and fourth every 8 years. There is going to be a Democrat president sooner of later, if not in 4 months than almost certainly in 4 years. Then it will swing back. 2024 will (most likely) be a open election with no incumbent running, Biden will be a lousy president. Give them time to regroup and refocus, and the chances of a republican comeback in 2024 are high in my estimation. I believe it is important that the party recover itself from Trump and parts of Trumpism.
This is my personal calculation. Even if I am wrong, there is always 2028. I reject the notion that this is our last chance to vase the county. If are country can be lost by a single election then it is lost already. Barack Obama was awful for Israel in his 8 years, Trump undid much of that. We will recover from Biden as well.
I understand that this is the minority view, but I home I can give at least some perspective why some people who are supporting Biden. Others will have different calculations.October 19, 2020 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1911555
The biggest fault of Trump is his gaiva, thinking he knows everything better than anyone else by firing his best advisors like General Mattis. He listens to a quack like Atlas on herd immunity. I think Biden will appoint good advisors and will listen to them by recognizing that he needs to hear the opposing view in order to avoid tunnel vision. This is the Torah view. Beis Hilel, because of their humility acquired from their rebbi, wanted to hear from the Beis Shamai before they revealed their view.October 19, 2020 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #19115541Participant
SheepOctober 19, 2020 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1911560
1, maybe you are the sheep who follows everyone without thinking.October 20, 2020 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1911607
interestingly, despite all the vitriol from both sides, social differences in the society decreased according to polls, which I think is healthy:
white subgroups – women, elderly, and non-college educated support Trump less than in 2016both blacks and Hispanics support Biden less than Hillary in 2016, including all subgroups – men, women, young, old, with and without education. same for white college educated.October 20, 2020 6:56 am at 6:56 am #1911613
Oh Jackk -“probably a complete lie is a reason not to vote for Biden”
Let me get this straight – Hunter Biden’s computer is Lying, so we should pretend it Never Happened?!?
This is called A’Z, when you Put your Party over doing the Right Thing.October 20, 2020 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1911559
There is a lot of discussion here about style, but what about substance?!
how do you feel about that notorious “Biden law” and how it affected all of us?!October 20, 2020 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1911747big dealParticipant
@sifsei chachmim Reply #1911533
I call the troll.
No conservative would ever be ok with any of this. Give up or try smarter.October 20, 2020 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1911806October 20, 2020 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1911882
sifsei chachmim: I know several people voting for Biden for these reasons (if not necessarily sharing your political forecast).
Back in the 90’s many in the frum world stood with evangelicals who proclaimed that a president’s personal morality mattered. Now many in the frum world stand with evangelicals who say it doesn’t matter. Some in the frum world still agree with the 90’s version.October 20, 2020 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #1911908
se2015 – yeridat hadorot? The smiling Arkansas governor had an alternative both times – 2 WW2 veterans with long productive career , and one innovative CEO; they were all judged dull or eccentric compared with the cheerful and pretty smart governor. Now the alternative is a guy who spent 50 years in non-executive public service whose Brahmin co-runner accused him of throwing her under a bus because she is black.October 20, 2020 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #1911921
sifsei chachmim -“I will be voting for Joe Biden.
Etc. – standing against socialism (Maduro)”
So you think Socialism is bad; but what about Communism?
Slow Joe is in Bed with the CCP of China. (Commy party of China.)
It’s all in Hunter’s Laptop.October 22, 2020 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1912812Ari256Participant
Jews are historically democrat, I have the question the opposite way, when did we become the red kingdom?
Satmar among other total communities votes democrat, and even with everything they get along with the polsOctober 23, 2020 12:48 am at 12:48 am #1912825
you can as well say that Jews are historically Tories, at least the first modern politician was. It looks like lots of Yakkies were Republican supporters during Lincoln times. Then, of course, Eastern European Jews came and supported socialists (Eugene Debs 38%) and also Democrats. I wonder what percentage of Orthodox Jews arriving iup to 1920s were left or not wing, as lots of socialists were aggressively anti-religious. Maybe this political differences between religious and secular Jews started already then? At this point, there are 2 Jewish groups that are pro R- : Orthodox and Russians. This seems to correspond to other US clusters – more religious are more R- and those who came from Cuba, Venezuala. So, it is either fears of prosecution by liberals or actual experience.October 23, 2020 6:32 am at 6:32 am #1912841jewishcommonsenseParticipant
” (A poll suggested the Democrat/Republican split among the MO is about 60/40 in favor of Dems. It also seems out-of-town Orthodox Jews are less pro-Trump.)”
well obviously these people don’t have experience with democratic goverment, let them try out NY, I can promise no NY chareidi is voting BidenOctober 23, 2020 10:52 am at 10:52 am #1912892
jewishcommonsense, where is your cimmion sense? Once you generalize, you have no common sense.October 23, 2020 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1912896Ari256Participant
I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble, but doesn’t the entirety of satmar vote Democrat in all elections?October 25, 2020 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1913108commonsaychelParticipant
@Ari256, spoken out of true ignorance, The Satmar in Orange, Rockland and Sullivan have always supported the GOP, check the results on the Orange County NY BOE website for the town of Palm Tree and you will see.October 25, 2020 10:28 am at 10:28 am #1913158commonsaychelParticipant
Just Checked the Rockland County BOE website for the 2016 results and the Chasidisher and Heimisher areas voted Donald Trump over HC by the biggest margins in Rockland, check the Rockland board of elections website past results 2016 and look for ED Ramapo, 56, 84, 60,35, 40, 41, 64, 74 just as sample election districts of the frum areas.
You cant dispute facts.October 25, 2020 11:53 am at 11:53 am #1913209
I will list my reasons. It seems the other post is too long.
I honestly cannot bring myself to vote for Trump for some of the following reasons:
1. Poor Middos. Would you hold Trump up as a good example of Bnei Noach for your children? I certainly cannot. Moreover, even my younger teenagers are not permitted to watch the debates because of the horrible language that comes out of his mouth.October 25, 2020 11:54 am at 11:54 am #1913210
2. Pikuach Nefesh. With over 210,000 Americans dead, and countless fellow yidden suffering the lasting effects of COVID, it’s important that we save all lives from this monster of a plague. Yes my sons complain about wearing a mask to shul (we all wear glasses for eyesight), but when they see Trump with no mask and saying the plague is a “democratic hoax”—despite many dead—there is a real problem here.October 25, 2020 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1913211
3. People are hurting. Not just klal yisroel, but non-jews too. Many are relying on food banks and free pick up lunches to feed their children. This all could have been avoided if Trump was honest about the virus from the beginning (as he was with Woodward), and the USA did the right thing. B”H we are okay here, but how are our single mothers/divorcees hanging in there.
EditedOctober 25, 2020 11:56 am at 11:56 am #1913212
4. Political polarization. It used to be that you could disagree with someone politically, and go about your life. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case where if someone puts a Biden sign in a Trump neighbourhood they are figuratively placed into cherim. This is wrong and destroys our community.October 25, 2020 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm #1913228
Tachles1 – STOP Lying!
1. How about Biden and ABUSE of Women and Abuse of Power?
2. If Biden was in Charge, there would be Millions of Deaths! Most Deaths from COVID19 is Mostly in DemonRats States.
3. Businesses are Hurting from all the Lib Riots!
4. Demonization of PD was started by Obama & VP Biden.
If there is No Law & Order – there is No Community!October 25, 2020 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1913240
>1. How about Biden and ABUSE of Women and Abuse of Power?
Do you have any SOLID proof of this? There exists court records and payoffs from Trump. Moreover, you avoided the main question of my point: “Would you hold Trump as an example of a Ben Noach to your children, and say his middos are satifactory?”
> 2. If Biden was in Charge, there would be Millions of Deaths! Most Deaths from COVID19 is Mostly in DemonRats States.
With all do respect that sounds like political partisanship. Do you have any evidence for this claim?
> 3. Businesses are Hurting from all the Lib Riots!
Trump can stop these riots, but he won’t because they serve a political advantage to him.
> 4. Demonization of PD was started by Obama & VP Biden.
Not true! In fact it originated with a doctoral thesis with some one from a law school titled “Are cops constitutional” and then we saw right wing militia groups rise up shortly after.
> If there is No Law & Order – there is No Community!
Agree, so why can’t Trump get law and order in place? Does he not have the leadership skills to do so?October 25, 2020 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1913237
I think I edited it correctly for my final point.
5. Public benefits. It’s well known that many Americans rely on public benefits to make it through the month. The GOP wants to end this. So then what about SNAP benefits that feed many Americans? Well the GOP wants to throw it all away. We’re supposed to take of each other!
Things are not so easy, but at least under Biden things will be better.October 25, 2020 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1913250🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
“Do you have any evidence for this claim?”
Why would you ask him for evidence to a rebuttal of a claim you made that has no evidence?October 25, 2020 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1913271ywnjudyParticipant
nyny, the part you said re: German Culture in response to Bored, took the words out of my mouth!October 25, 2020 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #1913298agitentumidParticipant
I do agree with your point that we should look at a leader as a promoter of how a Ben noach should act (and not merely how he will do politically) that being said, I would like to make the following points:
1 abortion’s are osur for a Ben noach according to the Torah.
2 the same goes to same gender marriage.
It is clear that our job is to promote the 7 mitzvah’s (as the rambam rites)
Just another final thought, a republican wh will bring with it much more religious freedom.October 25, 2020 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1913306ThehonesttruthParticipant
Trump is a clown, but he is not dangerous.
The alternative is worse. Biden is no tzadik. And if he becomes incapable in office (which seems imminent), a Kamala Harris presidency is much much worse.October 26, 2020 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1913908
The Democrats provide religious freedom not the Republicans because those being too religious require everyone to join their religion. It is not good for us when they are too religious.October 26, 2020 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1913921HershelParticipant
Reb Eliezer your poll # are off while it’s true that Ami Magazine poll (1,000 person sample) had 83% orthodox voting for Trump & 13% for Biden with 4% undecided. However among Charaidim the number was a actually 95% for TRUMP and only 2% for Biden &3% undecided so your figure of 10%-15% for Biden is grossly mistakenOctober 26, 2020 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1913930
Hershel: That’s the Ami poll, but as you know, polls aren’t always accurate. It’s not easy to poll the frum community.
The Nishma Research Political Survey of the American Orthodox Jewish Community Survey, Conducted January 14-26, 2020, found that among Charedim, 65% considered themselves Republicans and 20% considered themselves Democrats, while among the MO, 52% were Democrats and 37% were Republicans.
We could try to guess at the relative accuracy of the two polls by examining their methodology.
But we need a lot more polls to see which one is closer to the truth…October 26, 2020 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #1913934
The trump camp believes that there are hidden trump voters who are too shy to tell pollsters that they support trump, but who will turn out to vote in droves.
I imagine the opposite is true of charedi jews. To be accepted in charedi society you have to love trump and hate the libs. But I still think enough of the moral integrity of charedi jews as a whole that I cannot accept that in the privacy of a voting booth, with just their own thoughts and their own conscience and moral grounding, that so many would decide to get in bed with a menuval, regardless of what they might tell an ami pollster.October 26, 2020 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #1913935
Further to my previous post, Ami magazine claims their interviews “are performed by trained operators who have considerable experience with – and sensitivity towards – the various Orthodox Jewish communities, ensuring a near-perfect rate of respondent cooperation.” If my hypothesis is correct, then such sensitivity might skew the results. People might tell a heimish caller that of course they support trump because that is the socially acceptable answer, but in actuality they might be too appalled by trump’s behavior to ever actually vote for him.
I know several people who as a matter of moral integrity cannot vote for trump even if they have serious questions about biden and democrats in general. I have no idea how prevalent their opinion is, but it comes from a place of sincere religious conviction, not politics, so I imagine there are others like them.October 26, 2020 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #1913948
RE -“The Democrats provide religious freedom”
Another Liberal Lie! What are you going to do – if & when the Congress pass laws protecting “Gay Rights”?
I’m sure one of the First Rights that they will pass is – All clergy Must officiate at Gay Marriage.
That means all Frum Rabbis will have to be Mesader Kiddushin at Gay Weddings!October 27, 2020 3:07 am at 3:07 am #1913966
The governmental courts cannot decide inherently religious matters, and marriage is a key one that falls under this. So there will NOT be any forced toieva marriages by frum rabbis.October 27, 2020 7:44 am at 7:44 am #1913973
T1 -“The governmental courts cannot decide inherently religious matters, and marriage is a key one that falls under this. So there will NOT be any forced toieva marriages by frum rabbis.”
Of course the Gov. can’t change the Halacha, but they could force the Rabbis to Officiate the cerermony.
If you’re a Rov – do you want to Stand under a Chuppa to Officiate a Gay Marriage? It doesn’t matter that it doesn’t mean anything acc. to Torah Law. If the Rabbi Refuses – they can Jail him.
You Libs are always in Dream Land!October 27, 2020 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1914112jackkParticipant
New York already has a Marriage Equality Act since 2011 allowing same-sex couples to marry legally in New York for the first time. Have any Rabbis been thrown into jail for not performing a gay marriage?
According to you, can the City, State or Federal Government currently force under penalty of jail a Rabbi to perform an interfaith marriage ?
Provide a source for your theory.
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