Election Fraud

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  • #1918840
    Withheld
    Participant

    Do we believe Trump that the election was a fraud or do we believe the other half of the country that say that the election was fair? And more importantly, how will the next president deal with a divided America?

    #1918874
    ujm
    Participant

    The Democrats have a long history being masters of election fraud. Famously they stole the 1960 election with LBJ fraudulent producing votes late in the count in Texas and illinois to put JFK over the top. They tried to steal 2000 but were successfully stopped. State and local elections all over the country they have routinely committed fraud in over many decades.

    They think when they and their media allies keep repeating the mantra “fraud is rare” over and over again, they’ll get people to forget their history and believe that.

    #1918873
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    There is a saying, put up or shut up. Trump has to prove election fraud. It is easy to claim it.

    #1918884
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    How will President Biden deal with a divided America?’

    1. Tell the truth and provide clear and unambiguous support for your assertions.
    2. Acknowledge the concerns of those who disagree with you rather than demonizing them
    3. Scale back the unrealistic expectations of your own supporters in terms of both what can get done and how long it will take to achiveve those goals within the framework of a divided government.

    #1918887
    Withheld
    Participant

    Do you have such high beliefs in Biden that you wish to suggest that he will actually do those things? Or will we be facing 4 years of division?

    #1918893
    se2015
    Participant

    Trump has a long history of accusing others of precisely what he is doing or planning. Predicting his next move based on his psychological tell was an amusing game before the pattern became too obvious. He accuses democrats of trying to steal an election because he is trying to steal an election.

    מום שבך אל תאמר לחברך

    “Put up or shut up” is right. Trump talks a big game but so far his actual legal claims are unimpressive. His biggest in court claim is not widespread fraud, but that Pennsylvania should invalidate all mail in ballots because it violates equal protection. Honestly, his lawyers should be sanctioned for making frivolous claims.

    #1918899
    Health
    Participant

    RE -“There is a saying, put up or shut up. Trump has to prove election fraud. It is easy to claim it”

    Yes it is – Like you Libs claim the Next President will be J. Biden.
    There is a Postal Worker in Pa. that claims his Supervisor told e/o to Backdate the Mail-in Votes.
    And the WP made up a Story that he Recanted.
    He made a You Tube Video last nite, that it’s a TOTAL LIE!!!

    #1918913
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    Project Veritas says they have audio of his meeting with the investigator from the postal service yet they only released a small excerpt that shows nothing.

    Let Project Veritas put out the full audio so people can judge whether this postal worker is an outright liar, like the investigators claim he is, or he did not recant. At the moment I see no reason to give this postal worker any further thought.

    Easy to claim fraud and say you have evidence but not show it.

    What is Project Veritas hiding? If they think there is fraud show the evidence.

    #1918916
    er
    Participant

    Picture in your mind a scenario where a candidtate won fair and square. If the leader would then unfairly try to secure is grip on power, what might he do? World history tells us he would: 1. make accusations of fraud; 2. refuse to acknoledge the winner; 3. co-opt the media to amplify his message and drum up support; and 4. replace military leaders with loyalists who coud supress dissent.

    The scary thing is Trump has done all of these things. 1. He began predicting massive fraud months earlier when polls showed him losing (Health’s post about the PA postal worker was found to be untrue, btw. Trump’s suspicion about how he suddenly lost leads was easily explainable and even predicted weeks before the election); 2. He immediately claimed victory (ironically, Trump’s allies argue Biden cannot even legally be called ‘president elect’ yet; 3. Trump directs much of Fox News reporting; and 4. He replaced 4 Pentagon heads yesterday.

    #1918921
    se2015
    Participant

    Health, the entire facility processed exactly TWO late arriving ballots that were postmarked on election day.

    The story that he recanted came from government investigators, so sure they could be lying, but so could he. Let’s see what he says in court, not on YouTube. He’s working with project veritas which is not at all suspicious.

    Still, it’s two ballots.

    I know many are heartbroken over trumps loss, but facts still matter. There’s always 2024.

    #1918922
    charliehall
    Participant

    That the Trumpies are relying on Project Veritas shows how little evidence they have. Project Veritas has a long history of doctoring videos. Its founder James O’Keefe has even been convicted of criminal activity and paid big fines in such cases.

    The alleged whistleblower Giuliani trucked out on Satuday turns out to be a convicted sex offender.

    No surprise that the Trumpies rely on criminals.

    #1918923
    charliehall
    Participant

    “And the WP made up a Story that he Recanted.”

    Not a made up story. He signed an affadavit recanting. Then he recanted the recanting. So he, too, is a confirmed liar. No judge or jury would believe him now.

    The Republicans have no evidence, and their “witnesses” are liars and criminals.

    #1918932
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    When you think of the campaigns the two candidates ran, which aphorism of Toras Emes applies to which candidate?
    Lo Yogati Umatzasi – Al Ta’amin
    Yogati Umatzasi – Ta’amin

    #1918940
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    se2015, There is another saying, כל הפוסל במומו פוסל, whoever faults someone, faults him with his own faults. אין אדם רואה את נגעי עצמו, a person does not see his own faults. שלך אי אתה רואה אבל אתה רואה של אחרים ושל גבוה, you don’t see your own faults but see the faults of others and especially the holy.

    #1918939
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    Benford’s Law (Mathematics) is used worldwide to evaluate potential fraud in elections. Which candidate’s results confirm Benford’s Law and which candidates purported results violate Benford’s law?

    Quick counts of election votes generally indicate honest ballot counts and protracted counts indicate the possibility of fraud in an election. Which states dragged out the process?

    The Washington Post claimed the postal worker recanted, but provided no evidence of the supposed recant. The guy quickly released a video saying he never recounted nothing. Who you gonna’ believe? The Washington Post with an “unnamed source?” or the man himself?

    #1918946
    se2015
    Participant

    The house oversight committee is not an unnamed source.

    #1918947
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant
    #1918954
    se2015
    Participant

    “ Which states dragged out the process”

    Trick question! When the state law prohibits opening ballots until Election Day, is the process really dragged out?

    And let’s take a moment to call out the nonsense about benfords law. You can use it to detect accounting fraud, it is not widely used to detect election fraud. Nice try though.

    #1918956
    MosheFromMidwood
    Participant

    It is ludicrous to believe any poll that makes a judgment based on no evidence. Given the number of anecdotes, signed affidavits, etc., it certainly puts the election in the category of questionable. Those who believe it was fair when there are so many reported irregularities are engaged in wishful thinking. If the election eventually flips to Trump, what will the Dems say then?

    #1918958
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Lets see who is singing the count each vote song? its every Congressional Democrat who is trailing, ie Suazzi, Rose, Balter, etc. etc. Its every Democratic State Senator and Assembly Member who is trailing

    #1918959
    Meno
    Participant

    I think it’s pretty pathetic that in the 21st century, The United States of America can’t come up with a more technologically advanced, unified election system.

    I don’t know whether or not voter fraud changed the outcome of the current election, but it is very clear that there are many weak links in the system.

    #1918963
    se2015
    Participant

    What’s wishful thinking is that the trump campaign has even remotely begun to meet their enormous burden of proof to show widespread fraud. Not to worry. Project veritas is on it. Two ballots in Erie county and the fate of the nation hang in the balance.

    #1918967
    OrechDin
    Participant

    Recanting his recanting of his recanting.
    1. The head of Project Veritas is a convicted felon. His crime was breaking into the office of a member of Congress to steal documents. He has been found to have doctored videos, lied to public officials, and using fraud to prove that there is fraud by showing that he attempted fraud. In ALL of his videos. All of them.
    2. The postal worker said under oath in front of congressional investigators, and in a sworn affidavit, that the story he told Veritas was fiction. You can read the affidavit. It’s not a secret. This is what happens when “voter fraud” claims are put to the test. People can lie on YouTube or at a press conference. But when their behinds are on the line in front of a judge or under oath, they tell the truth. This is why Trump is 0-for-10 in his fraud lawsuits.
    3. The postal worker recanted his recanting (on YouTube, not under oath) because he was going to lose the $136,000 he raised on a GoFundMe page when it came to light that he lied. GoFundMe already said that he did not get any money and that the account is closed. So we’ll never hear from this guy again.
    4. Backdating ballots is completely implausible. In Pennsylvania, the ballots themselves are in two envelopes. So to change the date on the ballot the postal worker would have to open the envelopes (a federal crime punishable by 15-20 years in prison), change the date, and reseal them in two new envelopes while copying the voter’s signature. And doing this all under surveillance cameras. Backdating the post-mark is impossible. If it was post-marked already, it’s a stamp on there, it can’t be altered. To change the date on the post-marking machine is either impossible, or would log evidence of tampering (the kind of evidence that would be expected in court). There is no such evidence, nor even an allegation. That’s why all this nonsense fails.

    #1918968
    ujm
    Participant

    If he gets into office as a result of the Democrat electoral fraud, his title for the next four years will be “His Fraudulency, Joe Biden Jr.”

    If, as likely, Republicans take back the House at the first midterm elections as opposition parties typically do, they can impeach Biden.

    #1918970
    er
    Participant

    Agreed there should be a national standard. But ironically it’s the REPUBLICANS that champion states’ rights to legislate state matters, and fight against the federal government getting involved. In this case, Donald Trump is purposely using the different state’s rules on election procudures to make it SEEM like there’s confusion and doubt, whereas the TRUTH is that each state has said things have gone rather smoothly overall.

    #1918972
    ujm
    Participant

    Backdating a postmark is extremely easy. They simply can use a manual postmark cancellation stamp rather than any automated system for any ballots not yet postmarked or delivered by November 3. That’s all that’s needed. No need to open any envelope or change the inside envelope.

    #1918975
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    se2015 your arguments are not compelling. All the critical/contested states stopped the count officially for the night, and resumed in the wee hours while not being observed, and somehow the candidate who was trailing was now in the lead. That warrants investigation.

    This morning I watched a YouTube video POSTED IN 2011 talking about Bedford’s Law vis-à-vis evaluating fraud in elections. So that is real too.

    An unnamed source within the house oversite committee remains unnamed. There is also an audio recording (which I heard) purporting to be the meeting with the FBI and the postal worker pressuring him to recant. If that is real, that’s very serious.

    #1918990
    se2015
    Participant

    The fact that one candidate was ahead and then the other candidate won does not raise an inference of fraud, especially when the explanation is reasonable and was predictable. So predictable in fact that trump fought strenuously to cast doubt on mail in ballots before the election. In the meantime, unsupported claims of widespread fraud are corrosive and destroy any remaining trust people have in the democratic process. Come 2024, the few remaining die hard trump zombies are liable to commit fraud themselves to rectify the unproven fraud they saw on the you-tube.

    You claimed bedford’s law was used worldwide to detect election fraud and your source is an old youtube video? And you complain that the house oversight committee is an unnamed source?

    #1918998
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    @ Old Crown Heights – you are simply lying about the audio you heard where he was pressured to lie. That never happened in that audio.

    Enough with the lies already.

    Show evidence of widescale voter fraud. Otherwise shut up.

    Biden is president-elect until you come up with that evidence. Get a life.

    #1919005
    Pekak
    Participant

    Nobody is President Elect until the Electoral College votes.

    #1919010
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    Not lying, emes nisht sheker. They played it on Tim Pool last night. Unless YouTube took down the episode it will be available for you or anyone to to watch the show / listen to the recording. The recording was probably clipped as well so you don’t have to watch the show.

    And the YouTube video of a mathematician talking about Bedford’s Law in 2011 I mentioned to show that Bedford’s Law is not something cooked up last week. Anybody can read up (or watch video clips) to understand Bedford’s Law, on why it’s real, and why it works, and why it’s an indicator of (election) fraud. One candidate’s numbers fall in line with Bedford’s Law prediction. One candidates numbers violate this law. Raises a flag that needs to be considered.

    #1919019
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    @Pekak – are you arguing semantics?

    Per wikipedia (find a better source for your moronic point if you prefer), “the president-elect of the United States is the person who conclusively appears to have won a presidential election in the United States but has yet to take office as President.”

    It seems the only relevance of that term is for the GSA being able to facilitate the transition, which does not require waiting till the electoral college votes. Frankly, Biden is president-elect and all of you saying otherwise are increasingly sounding stupid and detached from reality.

    Let’s review:

    Was there an election – Yes
    Was there fraud that would justify undermining the elections – No evidence presented (go read the court transcripts if you think otherwise).
    Who is the apparent winner of the election – Joe Biden
    Conclusion – Joe Biden is the President-elect.

    Unless the President has actual evidence or valid legal arguments to challenge this, Joe Biden is president-elect and will on Jan 20th be president.

    #1919021
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    @Old CH – You can interpret a clip how you want. An inspector explaining that we are going to pressure you so if your story is a fabrication you will let it slip, is not pressuring him to retract his affidavit if true. I have had the FBI in my office with regard to an ex-client who was under investigation and this is standard. They ask you questions to fish out discrepancies.

    Regarding Benford’s law. It is very difficult and controversial to apply to elections so not sure where you get with that. In any case in PA, WI, GA, and AZ the first two leading digits for both Biden and Trump are the same. In MI, it is different. Not really sure how Benford’s law reveals anything significant here. So maybe stop with this nonsense which you clearly understand nothing about.

    I am done with this conversation as the intellectual level of those supporting Trump here is in serious question.

    #1919022
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    There are also reports of “Glitches” with the tabulating machines. We’ll see if the Georgia recount uncovers evidence of more “Glitches” and in whose direction they “Glitched.” There are also screenshots of vote numbers with the names of the candidates in front of those numbers changing positions that should be investigated.

    Only one candidate allegedly got 450,000 votes with no down ticket votes. That should be investigated.

    Counties allegedly had near 100% turnout. Impossible. Even in countries where voting is mandatory they don’t get above 90% or 95% because things happen to some of the voters between the time the list is made and the election.

    25,000 votes allegedly came from nursing homes in jurisdictions that outlaw ballot harvesting. That should be investigated.

    Better the truth come out now than after the election is certified or the wrong person takes office. The aspiring candidate may be above board. If he had no idea what his family was up to with regard to alleged influence peddling, why would he know what’s going on deep within some political machine?

    #1919028
    ujm
    Participant

    ENS: The day before the election the wikipedia article you reference stated: “If the result of an election is unclear or disputed, no person is normally referred to as president-elect until the dispute is resolved.”

    #1919083
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    The unedited TWO-HOUR audio of the FBI interview with the USPS guy is now out, so now that can be evaluated.

    The Benford Law graph of only one candidate’s votes spikes at 5. That’s the unvarnished fact.

    What’s the issue with looking into allegation of voting irregularities / fraud before an election is certified? Don’t you want the legitimacy of the POTUS to be beyond reproach? Don’t you want the 70 + million voters who voted for the other candidate to feel assured that the election was legit and supporting the POTUS 2021-2024?

    #1919086
    ujm
    Participant

    On Monday the United States Department of Justice authorized U.S Attorneys to investigate voter fraud in the election.

    #1919082
    Health
    Participant

    OCH – You’re wasting your time arguing with these Libs. No one is going to tell the truth.
    Who do you think gets jobs in Counting places?
    Once Hunter Biden’s Laptop got out – they went to plan B.
    Plan B was Fraud with the Election.
    Trump kept saying that there be fraud.
    So he should have done something, like put Armed Guards as Observers and have them check each Ballot!
    So he should Stop pretending – MAGA.
    It’s way too far gone – it’s just another Banana Republic!

    #1919097
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    In years past, limited mail-in voting produced PROVEN small scale election fraud. This is the first time the U.S. had widespread mail-in voting and people and there are legit concerns of widespread irregularities or even fraud. The people, the world, needs to have confidence in the U.S. election.

    #1919101
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Does this make sense

    If someone voted absentee for Biden but decided to change his vote (it was the most googled question up until the election) and decided to vote for Trump in person, his vote would be counted twice and cancel each other out because as usual with government bureaucracy the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing

    #1919107
    rightwriter
    Participant

    Er-The scary thing is Trump has done all of these things. 1. He began predicting massive fraud months earlier when polls showed him losing”

    How about when Hillary said in a recorded video interview that Joe biden should not concede under any circumstance and that they should wait because surely after recounting the democrats will win. Since the republicans will tamper with the absentee votes. How about pelosi calling to cancel the debates which they did for at least the second debate and also calling for biden not to concede.

    How about the riots which were ongoing and planned for after the election which sneaky harris said will continue after the election?

    All this was before the election results. Need I say more?

    #1919144
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Hearsay is not evidence, no matter how many times someone claims, fraud, without evidence the point is moot. This has been supported numerous times by the courts who have found no substance in the republicans claims of fraud. It’s got to be getting embarrassing for these lawyers, more than that their filings as slipshod as they are, are skating on some ver.y thin ice ethically.

    #1919155
    Health
    Participant

    AZ -“Hearsay is not evidence, no matter how many times someone claims, fraud, without evidence the point is moot.”

    Are you a lawyer? If not, look up the definition of Evidence & Hearsay.
    The Election Worker from Pa. said on Video that his Supervisor told e/o – if something (Vote) comes in late to Backdate it.
    This is Evidence, Not Hearsay!

    Where do You Libs live – in the Corrupt Country that used to be Liberty & Justice for All?!?
    Trump made a Big Mistake when he became a Politician – he actually thought he Could Drain the Swamp & Make America Great Again!!!

    #1919167
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Health, thank you from admitting that Trump did not drain the swamp and make America great again,
    so why vote for him?

    #1919295
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    “Why vote for him? ” – It may prove impossible to eradicate mosquitoes, but that’s not an indication that you should breed more mosquitoes.

    #1919270
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    @ujm – I don’t think the GSA should consider this disputed, because one side who has not presented evidence nor made valid legal arguments says it is in dispute. It is pretty clear Trump lost.

    @Old Crown Heights – listened to a bunch of that interview and the bottom line is the guy heard a blurb and assumed a lot of things. He did change his affidavit and clarified what was assumption vs what he heard. As to what he heard it is nothing near as damning as what the original affidavit suggested.

    @ujm – Can you not spread fake news about what Bill Barr did. He did not start an investigation, rather he changed department policy, with no reason other than Trump is upset, to allow certain investigations to proceed. Note, it was policy that was changed, not that there are actual investigations ongoing.

    @rightwriter – Hillary never said it the way you suggested. She just said if the election is close Biden should not concede as Trump will try to interfere with the absentee ballots. In any case, Hillary was not running for election, and her one comment about not conceding is a ridiculous basis for Trump’s deplorable actions alleging fraud when he has not presented evidence of such widescale fraud.

    @Health – you are just lying about what the postal worker was told. Hopkins never claimed being told to backdate things (he does not even know how to do postmarks) rather he said that some people backdated things. What he recanted was that he only heard a snippet of conversation and he assumed it meant they backdated things. The conversation he heard is not even clear that it was discussing backdating and would not go anyplace in court without other evidence. His affidavit is just hearsay.

    Finally, rather than spreading fake news and just lying about things, why not go look at the facts. In PA only about 10,000 ballots were received after the close of the polls. If all those ballots were tossed out, Biden still wins. So these allegations about backdating and whatnot are simply irrelevant if you want to say the election was affected by voter fraud. Provide the evidence or you are just a liar who is in denial about reality.

    I know I said I will step out of this conversation before but felt a need to respond to some of these comments. I assume you, if you want to continue with lies, can come up with more and more irrelevant points and lies to continue this. I think for anyone thinking who looks at all this, it is clear who is making up lies and who is trying to stick to the truth. I think it is safe to say any responses from the side that has been lying consistently here will just be more lies and there is no further need to respond to them.

    #1919359
    er
    Participant

    Rightwriter: The main thrust of your response was ‘who cares if Trump deligitimizes the election and sues, since Biden was planning to do that too.’ I believe emes nisht sheker is accurate in response to your Hillary point, albeit it was probably dumb for Hillary to speak that way. And not only is she not a candidate, but no democrats these days care about her opinion anyway. I voted for Trump in 2016, btw. As for the prolonged protests (or ‘riots’ as you call them), I don’t see how that helps Biden. BLM marches worked to get Trump more votes, and unfortunately Trump could use future protests against his coup-attempt as a pretext to bring in the military now that he’s replaced pentagon with loyalists. His policies may be more friendly to Israel (for now), but once you go down that road, it’s a step towards dictatorship, as in the disctatorships that led our grandparents to flee America. Maybe not as bad, but why go in that direction? Our parents and grandparents liked the stability of a democracy and the limits on power. Hopefully Trump is just talking a big game. But in the meantime he is destabilizing our country and showing dictatorships around the world it’s OK if might equals right.
    But the bigger takeaway from your response seems to be that you agree with my point #s 2, 3 and 4.

    #1919367
    rightwriter
    Participant

    Suddenly the democrats are the adult in the room? When clearly there was fraud in this election! Voting machines conveniently broke down in republican voting areas!

    #1919366
    rightwriter
    Participant

    @emesnisht-“Hillary never said it the way you suggested. She just said if the election is close Biden should not concede as Trump will try to interfere with the absentee ballots. In any case, Hillary was not running for election, and her one comment about not conceding is a ridiculous basis for Trump’s deplorable actions alleging fraud when he has not presented evidence of such widescale fraud”

    Wrong sir. Hillary said it exactly as that, and they were planning much worse if Trump wins. She clearly said biden should not concede under any circumstance and that she believes if they drag it on and fight they will win after recounting. She said they should not give an inch and she didn’t say trump will interfere with the ballots she said the Republicans will surely meddle.

    What proof do you need? They have not accepted Trump as president for 4 years! Accused him of russian collusion, tried impeaching him, spoke about 25th amendment to replace him, said he is not mentally fit, rioting for the past year burning cities to the ground and killing innocent civilians and officers , planning to riot if Trump wins election, Harris saying riots won’t end after election, pelosi said that Joe Biden should not concede and tried cancelling debates so he doesn’t mess up…..how ignorant can you be!

    Even if you despise Trump and think all he can do is wrong, open your eyes or more importantly your mind and see all that the democrats have been and still are doing to defeat Trump! Are you that brainwashed?!

    #1919391
    Health
    Participant

    ENS -“rather he said that some people backdated things”

    I actually only saw the video of him Denying Recanting.
    What did he actually claim about Election Voting? You seem to be in the “Know”.

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