English Music

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  • #746412

    What do you know? Guns N’ Roses did cover “Cat’s In the Cradle.” I’m feeling old!

    #746413
    happyOOTer
    Participant

    bombmaniac, I hate to tell you, but it is an urban legend that GNR covered Cat’s In the Cradle… it was Ugly Kid Joe (even when credited to GNR), and it’s on an album from 1992 with very inappropriate lyrics.

    Also, “Jingle Bells” was composed by a church music director, and has always been known as an xmas song. An alternate verse mentions picking up girls…

    “Let it Snow”: Sorry, not tsnius. Alternate verses propose cuddling up to the fire since it’s cold outside.

    The poster doth protest too much, methinks. LOL.

    #746415
    bombmaniac
    Participant

    you get my point…

    #746416
    Midwest2
    Participant

    There is a simple solution for the store music problem. Go to your friendly local drugstore and buy anti-noise earplugs. They’re cheap and effective. Mack’s (silicone) is a good brand, and there are other brands made of silicone or foam rubber. I always carry a pair for those stores where the music is particularly bad/loud. Why suffer?

    BTW, many years ago I walked into a friend’s house on Purim and heard that Piamenta song playing. My friend is very frum and would never have “goyishe” music playing, so I was astonished and asked her why she was playing music by this Australian group. She was herself astonished, as she didn’t realize that the song wasn’t Jewish. I told her what the lyrics are (they aren’t that bad, after all) and she was not happy at all.

    Why can’t we do our own music? Why does everything have to have a rock beat behind it with Hebrew words only to “kasher” it?

    #746417
    bombmaniac
    Participant

    um…its not every song…there are many origionally composed songs out there…and why not? it makes life easier 😀

    #746421

    I love that Piamenta song!

    #746422
    haifagirl
    Participant

    I just heard a song on YWN Radio – Hela by MBD. Can anybody translate that for me or tell me where I can find the lyrics? I am curious as to why “La Marseillaise” is quoted.

    #746423
    jphone
    Member

    “Why can’t we do our own music? Why does everything have to have a rock beat behind it with Hebrew words only to “kasher” it?”

    One word. “Sales”. The Yeshiva Boys Choir would put out a “Best of Chazzanus” CD if it would sell.

    #746424
    bombmaniac
    Participant

    while on the subject of original composers…ever heard yossi green? there still is originally composed music out there…journeys…baruch levine…theres plenty

    #746425
    haifagirl
    Participant

    Okay. I admit it. I like ABBA. So it was a pleasant surprise to her “The Winner Takes It All” on YWN Radio. Okay, so the words were different, and it was Dedi singing, but I know ABBA when I hear it.

    #746426
    happyOOTer
    Participant

    I like ABBA too… heh heh…

    #746427
    chesedname
    Participant

    it’s amazing how after reading all these posts again, how few people are bothered if their kids are exposed to “goish” music.

    then ppl wonder why so many are going off the derech!

    if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

    i always thought it was a parents job to protect, and yes shelter to some degree, our most precious possessions, the kids.

    not run to the psychiatrist during the commercial to see why children are doing what they’re doing.

    #746428
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Chesedname, my mother raised 3 frum kids with all of us watching TV and listening to secular music. She didn’t even go to yeshiva!

    I know plenty of families that had no TVs, no secular music and the kids went OTD.

    If your only hold on your children is to keep them so sheltered that they have zero exposure to the outside world, then you must not be convinced that there is anything truly positive about being a frum person. Because being frum isn’t a negative experience unless you make it that way.

    #746429
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

    If you work with the assumption that if kids know what is out there, they will want to go off the derech, that doesn’t say much for our derech. We are supposed to believe in what we do out of knowledge, not out of ignorance.

    #746430
    chesedname
    Participant

    popa_bar_abba

    you can’t give a hungry child a cheeseburger and preach kashrus!

    we’re told to stay away from the opposite s*x until marriage, but lets turn on the tv and see how enticing they look.

    besides it’s not so simple to hear a female sing even on a radio, why force it on Jewish customers, this isn’t a discussion of what to listen to in your car or home?

    and if only 10% of the readers here understand that, we have a serious problem.

    #746431
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

    I guess the answer to that question is me.

    The Wolf

    #746432
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I agree with you, I was just poking at how you almost made it sound as if going off the derech makes sense.

    #746433
    Sacrilege
    Member

    I dont think that keeping your children so sheltered that they dont know what is going on in the out side world is the the best method of Jewish parenting. Does this mean that you should feed them every shmutz in the world? No.

    At the same time fortify them with knowledge. Teach them the beauty of yiddishkeit, what it means to be a Torah Jew. How lucky WE are! Sheltering children to the point of ignorance is what usually backfires.

    “opposite s*x”

    Dude! really?!

    #746434
    growinggirl
    Member

    i agree with the OP about non-jewish music in jewish places. the jews in mitzrayim were also living among the goyim for a long time, but i guarantee you the music in their stores would have only been jewish.

    yes, there are some non-jewish songs that are nice and are pretty. but thats not the point. the point is that when you’re listening to their music, you have to in some way appreciate the singer and/or composer for producing such an awesome song. you think, “well this singer can’t be so bad, look their songs are so nice so clean. theyre cool.”

    were not supposed to think goyim are cool. we’re supposed to think rebbeim are cool. and that’s why we listen to music that’s composed and sung by frum Jews, music can actually help get us closer to Hashem, vs listening stuff that we justify to ourselves by saying “well, it’s not actually BAD for me…”

    #746435
    kapusta
    Participant

    if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

    I guess the answer to that question is me.

    The Wolf

    Welcome back!

    ~~~~~~~~

    I agree with Sacrilege. Keeping someone tied up and having them follow you isn’t worth too much. The point is to teach children this is what the secular world has, but what we have is so much better and then show them you believe it with your full heart. And there is the fact that when some people are exposed they break free completely and give up everything. Proper balance is the answer.

    *kapusta*

    #746436
    chesedname
    Participant

    Sacrilege

    would it be ok to take them to a strip club, and after spending a few hours tell your son those ppl are doing things they shouldn’t be doing? or tell your daughter, now that’s how you shouldn’t dress?

    of course we can’t lock them in a closet, but why take them to places they shouldn’t be in? why open their eyes if they don’t need to be open, why put them through the test later?

    if that’s not what parenting is about, what is it about?

    #746437
    Sacrilege
    Member

    chesed – I believe your example would fall under my statement of “should we feed them every shmutz in the world? No”

    I have one word for you. Balance.

    Growing – “but i guarantee you the music in their stores would have only been jewish”

    I am going to disagree with you. The Jews in Egypt were applauded for keeping 3 things: names, dress, language.

    They were cited for visiting the circuses and theatres of the Mitzrim. I think it would be safe to say they were enjoying their music.

    #746438
    apushatayid
    Participant

    When discussing English music, the name Henry Purcell must be mentioned. Some wonderful compositions.

    #746439
    so right
    Member

    Sacrilege: Are you kidding? What gives you the crazy idea the Yidden “were enjoying Egyptian music”? Something to the tune of “Pharoh and his Jewish blood bath”?

    #746440

    the most Goyish music I listen to is:

    Lipa Schmeltzer

    Meydad Tasa

    Ofra Haza a”h (kol isha)

    My siblings only want to hear L’Chaim Tish.

    Does this make me a bad person?

    #746441
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Pascha – Terrible!

    #746442
    mosherose
    Member

    “I guess the answer to that question is me.”

    Considiring some of the things you said in the evolution page Im not certain that you want to bring yoruself as a good example. I wouldnt necesarily call an apikorus like yourself frum.

    #746443
    minyan gal
    Member

    mosherose: This is a place for an exchange of ideas and there is no need to cast aspersions on other people. You may disagree with the message but don’t shoot the messenger. Apparently nobody who posts here on YWN is frum enough for you judging by your posts on various threads. However, this forum is open to all – not just those who follow you and your rebbe.

    #746445
    LAer
    Member

    Low blow, mosherose, low blow. And by the way, I (and many of my friends) grew up with TV in our homes and listened to goyish music. I confess to liking some oldies songs and enjoy hearing them on the radio. But I don’t have a TV. My friends don’t have TVs. We consider ourselves frum, and the rest of the world does too.

    #746446

    mosherose who do u think u are to call someone an apikores?! I agree with minyan gal-from your posts you sound like nobody in the world is frum enuf for you yet you still think the internet is ok.

    #746447
    DovidM
    Member

    The music played at off hours at Kosher restaurants sometimes is what the mostly Hispanic staff has voted for.

    The biggest issues for me are kol isha, and the sexual innuendos and non-Torah values that are found in Top 40 lyrics. If you are in a doctor’s waiting room, you are stuck, but if you have a choice of places to eat, or a choice of eating in or take out, then you need to do something that will limit your exposure.

    #746448

    My kids were familiar with secular music, and liked some of it when they were in their teens. Now, as they’ve advanced in life to being yeshiva bochurim and post-seminary, they’ve opted out of their own accord. We always discussed why certain secular music is inappropriate. Perhaps I’m of the school of thought that with kids, if you make something totally ussur, you’re actually making it seem more interesting to curious kids.

    Enroute to one of my kids in Israel is a CD of Beatles music (instrumental) as performed by Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops Orchestra. This was a suggestion one of her rebbeim in seminary gave her as a kosher way to enjoy the music she likes.

    #746449
    WIY
    Member

    Woman outside Brooklyn

    The music of 2010 is filthy. Its really crude. Its all about “filth” and uses lots of vulgarity. A parent can’t allow their child to pollute their neshama with such filth.

    #746450
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Arthur Fiedler and Boston Pops is truly an enjoyable listen. John Williams is superb. Andre Rieu too.

    #746451
    haifagirl
    Participant

    I guess the answer to that question is me.

    The Wolf

    Me too.

    opposite s*x

    Thank you chesedname. That is a great solution to the problem of people using gender when they really mean s*x. I wish I had thought of it.

    #746452
    haifagirl
    Participant

    When discussing English music, the name Henry Purcell must be mentioned. Some wonderful compositions.

    Absolutely. And let’s not forget John Field.

    #746453
    WIY
    Member

    Opposite sex is the same as opposite gender no?

    #746454
    chesedname
    Participant

    haifagirl

    thanks for the compliment, we don’t give each other much here!

    #746455

    chesedname that was a great thank you

    you sure know how to thank someone

    way to go. keep it up

    i compliment you

    #746456
    chesedname
    Participant

    mod 80

    in jest or not, I’ll take what i get! 🙂

    you see all it takes is for everyone to say thank you, and give each other compliments. then the world would be a better place.

    #746457

    it was in jest, but just for fun, not to criticize you.

    you are right of course.

    #746458

    To be honest, I’m not “up” at all on the music of this century. The secular stuff my kids liked was mainly music from the sixties and seventies. Hence, our spending time discussing what’s inappropriate about a lot of the lyrics. In fact, even when I tried listening to a Yid like Y-Love, I could barely understand a word he was saying/singing/rapping, whatever it is he does. Ditto Matisyahu, although I do like the sound of his stuff, since I happen to like reggae. I’m starting to feel like my own parents probably did when I was listening to rock ‘n roll back in the day.

    So what’s the consensus here, not about s#x, but about music?

    #746459
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Invest in a few Andrei Rieu CDs, no objectionable words and beautiful music.

    #746461
    haifagirl
    Participant

    Opposite sex is the same as opposite gender no?

    No. “Sex” refers to the characteristics that differentiate a male from a female. If you’ve ever filled out a form for a driver’s license or a medical history form, they asked for your “sex,” not your “gender.”

    “Gender” refers to masculine or feminine in relation to language. That is, “???” is masculine and “????” is feminine.

    #746463

    Last night I watched a film on iTunes of the Beatles performing in 1964, their first USA concert. This was all part of iTunes promo that they now offer all of the Beatles albums. The music was so innocent and still very fresh after all these years, it was a pleasure to watch. If this were the secular music that’s around now, this would be a much shorter discussion.

    Now if only iTunes carried Lipa as well!

    #746464
    haifagirl
    Participant

    This isn’t “English” since he was Austrian, but I just heard Mozart on YWN Radio. Cool!

    #746466
    BasYisroel94
    Participant

    Hi, I see that this post hasn’t been visited for a while, but since I’m new to the coffee room, I just had an archealogical find…

    I’m just a bit confused by whats been posted: Is goyishe music really ok, if it doesn’t have “bad” lyrics? I’ve heard that any music, connects you to the composer and that it’s a terrible thing to be connected to these goyim, and yadayadayada. But, I really dont know. Who will dare to enlighten me on this matter.. Please? 🙂

    Thanks!

    #746469
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Is goyishe music really ok”

    We’ve had a lot of discussion regarding this issue in other chat forums.

    First, one has to define “Jewish” and “goyish” music. Much music of non-Jewish origin has been appropriated by Jews even for liturgical use; for example, the most common tune for “Maoz Tzur” is a German tune that Martin Luther harasha used for a Christian hymn.

    And it is difficult to find ANY Jewish music that is not influenced by non-Jewish styles. I’ve mentioned the atonal music of Arnold Schoenberg; it is truly like no music every previously composed. Yet even Schoenberg himself insisted that he was following in the tradition of Johannes Brahms. (And you will never hear Schoenberg played at a simchah.)

    #746470
    charliehall
    Participant

    Just found this opinion regarding music:

    http://www.ravaviner.com/2011/03/shut-sms-104.html

    Rav Aviner is a prominent Dati Leumi posek in Eretz Yisrael.

    #746471
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Hi, I see that this post hasn’t been visited for a while, but since I’m new to the coffee room, I just had an archealogical find…

    I’m just a bit confused by whats been posted: Is goyishe music really ok, if it doesn’t have “bad” lyrics? I’ve heard that any music, connects you to the composer and that it’s a terrible thing to be connected to these goyim, and yadayadayada. But, I really dont know. Who will dare to enlighten me on this matter.. Please? 🙂

    Thanks!

    I don’t know if I can “enlighten you”, but I don’t mind sharing my opinion, that it depends on the music. Much of today’s secular music (and, unfortunately, much of today’s “Jewish” music, whose style is copied from the secular) is harmful, even without the lyrics. Some secular music, though, might be elevating.

    On a subtle level, to some extent, one might be connecting to the composer, but there were gedolim who listened to classical music composed by individuals who may have been immoral people, but those values weren’t necessarily reflected in these compositions.

    As a rebbe of mine once analogized, if an artist of poor moral character painted a picture of an apple, it would not be a problem to view that painting.

    Even a frum Yid, though, can make up a tune (especially when copying the secular style) which brings out the animalistic part of human nature.

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