May 22, 2012 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #603544lakewhutParticipant
Stop making speeches in yiddish in America already! It’s 2012May 23, 2012 12:23 am at 12:23 am #878213gabieMember
Tell that to 750,000 frum yidden and bnei Torah across the globe to whom Yiddish is the mama loshon, their native first-language, used for everyday speech. Many of whom aren’t even fluent in any other language. (They can sometimes “get by” with a botched English.) And the many more to whom Yiddish is their second language, that their Limud HaTorah is conducted in.
To them it isn’t 2012. It is 5772.May 23, 2012 1:40 am at 1:40 am #878214nfgo3Member
There is nothing wrong with speaking Yiddish if you speak it well and want to reach only a Yiddish-speaking audience. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with speaking English if you speak it well and want to reach a major portion of the world. There is plenty wrong with speaking any language badly, because the speaker fails to convey his/her ideas clearly.
In my very limited experience, people who try to speak both languages do not speak English well, but I have no idea how clearly they speak Yiddish. Given the importance of English throughout the world in the 57th Century, it is important for the Jewish people to have a good command of English.May 23, 2012 2:29 am at 2:29 am #878215pcozMember
that could be a problemMay 23, 2012 2:45 am at 2:45 am #878216moreMember
Aside for the European Jewish communities, they should institute an English Yiddishe language for the rest of the jewish world so that majority of the jewish oilom could understand Vot iz Vlying….May 23, 2012 3:05 am at 3:05 am #878217HaLeiViParticipant
am or pm?May 23, 2012 4:46 am at 4:46 am #878218Avi KParticipant
Let the dead language rest in pieces (considering all of the different dilaects).May 23, 2012 6:25 am at 6:25 am #878219
More jews speak English than YiddishMay 23, 2012 7:21 am at 7:21 am #878220Shraga18Participant
“To them it isn’t 2012. It is 5772.”
Best line I’ve seen here in a long time!!!May 23, 2012 9:52 am at 9:52 am #878221gabieMember
More Jews are irreligious than religious.
More gentiles speak English than French. Lets end French.May 23, 2012 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #878222akupermaParticipant
1. There are probably more children speaking Yiddish as their first language now than any time in American history (be real, in the “good old days” before World War I, most immigrants made a serious effort to forget Yiddish along with all other aspects of Yiddishkeit).
2. Jews usually use a Jewish language for serious conversations, and Hebrew is probably less understood than Yiddish, and more importantly, it is now the language of a foreign country which implies disloyalty in using it at a public forum, whereas Yiddish is an ethnic language rather than a foreign country’s national language.May 23, 2012 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #878223HaKatanParticipant
gabie, many are almost completely ignorant of this cholent, known as Yiddish, of High German, Polish and, lihavdil, Lashon HaKodesh. While those who speak Yiddish SHOULD be at least passably fluent in English, to the point that is a speaker speaks in English, or at least English with some Yiddish mixed in, everyone should be able to understand.
There is little reason this “language” of Yiddish exists, other than for historical purposes and communicating with those of previous generations who speak it better than the native language.
There already is a new Yiddish that should take over the function Yiddish served, and that is Yeshivish English. Since English is an international language and everyone learns Talmud Bavli, you now have a perfect international Jewish language.May 23, 2012 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #878224ChortkovParticipant
In Mitzrayim, the Jews were rescued for three reasons (according to one midrash anyways):
They didn’t change a) clothes b)names and c) language.
A common argument for Yiddish. What i fail to understand is what makes ‘Yiddish’ into a Jewish language – Loshon HaKodes/Ivrit Tenachi is a Jewish Language. Yiddish is a collection of German, English, Loshon HaKodesh and a dozen other languages put together. Why is it Jewish?May 23, 2012 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #878225BaalHaboozeParticipant
zahavadad: is that a fact? I agree here on American shores that is true. But worldwide? not sure that is the case.
as an aside – I wondered before the Asifa why there weren’t 2 stadiums, one for yiddish, and one for english. It would have solved many quarrels and complaints about the language issues and people could have had the best of both worlds by choosing what they felt more comfortable with.May 23, 2012 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #878226PosterMember
I live in Eretz Yisroel and the Rav of our community wanted to give a shiur, so he gave it in yiddish. Now, everyone could come Israelis, europeans, americans etc. It is very nice for there to be a special language for teh Jews. It unites us. How beautiful!May 23, 2012 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #878227midwesternerParticipant
More jews drive on shabbos than not.
Not meant as a direct analogy. Only that more doesn’t make it right.May 23, 2012 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #878228
Not meant as a direct analogy. Only that more doesn’t make it right.
Not a comparison
If you are going to speak to the Kehila, you need to speak to them in a language they understand.
zahavadad: is that a fact? I agree here on American shores that is true. But worldwide? not sure that is the case.
Most Jews live in Anglo Countries Us, England, Canada , Australia.
And Many jews who live in Israel and France also speak english.
More Frum jews do NOT speak Yiddish as a first language, maybe in Chassidic communities, but not everywhere else.
If Rav Wachsman spoke “Yeshivish”, I have no problem with it, I understood it perfectly
And the truth of the matter is the Internet’s main language is English, If you only Speak Yiddish you cant use it, so I found it interesting that it was the Yiddish speakers who were the harshest speakers (As opposed to Rav Wachsman)May 23, 2012 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #878229smartcookieMember
I, For one, and many others I know, are still going strong on the Yiddish language. That is the main language in my home.
So we still appreciate hearing some Yiddish language/speeches sometimes.
That said, I mostly speak English outside my home, and my kids know the language too, so I’ll love listening to an English speech at any given time.
But I still appreciate, that I have a second language that I’m so fluent in, and it’s another one of those hundred things that separate us American Jews with the rest of Americans.
And btw, Yiddish is a beautiful language for those who know it well.May 23, 2012 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #878230
The reality is Most Yiddish Speakers probably understand English (At least in New York) and that most English Speakers do NOT understand Yiddish.
The asifa wasnt even 50/50 Yiddish/English…It was more like 80/20 in favor of Yiddish. You could easily look around during the yiddish speakers what was happening.May 23, 2012 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #878231cherrybimParticipant
“Tell that to 750,000 frum yidden and bnei Torah across the globe to whom Yiddish is the mama loshon”
That’s a bobbe mai’se. A bi g’ret.May 23, 2012 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #878232
For many, Ladino is mamma lashon. Not a single sentence of Ladino. For shame.May 23, 2012 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #878233a maminParticipant
Zehavasdad: I think it’s a pity you are so intimidated by the Yiddish language! It certainly aint a dying language in my part of the world.May 23, 2012 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #878234bptParticipant
(Hey.. maybe we should revive the Yiddish thread?)May 23, 2012 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #878235HaKatanParticipant
A) yekke2, that argument is also faulty because, in part, we didn’t yet have the Torah in Mitzrayim.
(As well, the Nazis YM”Sh also understood Yiddish, so there’s nothing all that muvdal about Yiddish, certainly not all that different than Yeshivish English today.)
Now that, for well over 3,000 years now, the Torah has bound us as one nation, there is no need to resort to speaking our own language as being a Torah Jew does far more for everyone than using a common language.
This is pashut.
For example, if you need a minyan in Paris while waiting for a flight out, no matter what language you speak, the word “Shacharis” and a gesture to your Talis/Tefillin should be enough to convey you’re looking for a minyan and any other Jew will happily join you no matter what language he speaks because we all have the same mitzvos. Again, we did not have that in Mitzrayim.
No Yiddish is needed.
B) ** The following is a quote from another site, if the mods wish to allow it:
If the Mods do not, the following point still stands. **
It’s very insulting and is a lack of derech eretz to many Jews that, in the United States whose national language is American English, one has to publicly Lifnei Am ViEidah “justify” speaking in English, “CH”V”, essentially apologizing for not addressing the gathering in Yiddish; this is a tremendous turn-off and slap in the face to those who do not speak Yiddish, and accomplishes exactly the opposite of what is intended: it alienates those Jews who do not speak Yiddish and erroneously makes some Jews feel superior to those other Jews who do not speak it.
This is not, CH”V, an accusation that all who speak yiddish feel they are superior, but it has certainly happened, and it is a terrible avlah born, most likely, of ignorance as to what being a Torah Jew is really all about.
To be perfectly clear, there is nothing wrong with speaking English, and to apologize for doing so is, again, wrong, despite the good intention in doing so.
Yiddish is useful for only 2 things: historical purposes and for effective communication with the older generation. Everyone should speak English (and/or Yeshivish English), which is an international language, in addition to the native language of the country they live in. This will truly unify all of, rather than alienate, CH”V, any part of, Klal Yisrael.May 23, 2012 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #878236
Ladino is very uncommon even among Sefardim. And even those that know it, it is their second language, not first like Yiddish.
During the asifa the vast majority of yidden, even those not fluent in yiddish, were paying attention to the yiddish speaking rabbonim shlita. They were looking at the scrolling English translation at citifield or asking their neighbors (ie at the other venues) what the rabbonim were saying. Many got a sense even without a translation. Just like the Polish Minister who understood the Chofetz Chaim, who spoke in yiddish even though the Minister didn’t, and there was no translation.May 23, 2012 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #878237chgoachdusMember
The advertising posters and publicity ahead of time should have been in yiddish if the event was going to be in yiddish. Then we all would have known who it was for and what internet experience was expected of the attendees both before and after the event. All the talk of unity and a broad spectrum of American frum was misleading.May 23, 2012 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #878238
Yidden always had a unifying language that was unique to Yidden. For the last thousand years, Yiddish has served this purpose. It is no coincidence that Roshe Yeshivos give their droshos in Yiddish in America, Eretz Yisroel and the world over.May 23, 2012 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #878239smartcookieMember
Regarding the Asifa, I do agree that the speeches shouldve all been in English being that they expected so many diverse communities to attend.
In general though, nope, we still need Yiddish around. But OP, you feel free to attend only the English ones.May 23, 2012 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #878240OneOfManyParticipant
One, two…May 23, 2012 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #878241yitayningwutParticipant
In 3012 everyone will be speaking Klingon and the only people left speaking English will be those few Yidden who don’t want to let go of the mama loshon (or, as it will affectionately be known as then, “the mother tounge”).May 23, 2012 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #878242bp27Participant
chgoachdus – In Boro Park most of the advertising literature and posters were in Yiddish.May 23, 2012 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #878243lakewhutParticipant
I don’t know how difficult it is to understand (akuperma) that more American Jews speak English as a first language. We’re in America speak English like a normal person, and the people who live in Wiliamsburgh can’t speak normal English or Yiddish, they just jumble a mixture of the two languages into one sentence. YIddish is a dead language, wanna have speech in yiddish, keep it in BP, Williamsburg, New Square, Monroe, or a radical area in Israel. Don’t have yiddish speeches at a public venue in America, it’s psychotic IMHO.May 23, 2012 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #878244giggle girlParticipant
Way to go Gabie!!!
I love the fact that Jews today are still speaking Yiddish. It kind of shows that no matter where we are, whether it’s Eretz Yisroel, America, England, France… or anywhere, we never forget who we are. Yiddish is mostly German mixed in with the language of wherever you live and Lashon Ha’Kodesh – but always Lashon Ha’Kodesh. That part is not just in Eretz Yisroel – it’s everywhere. “Torah” in Yiddish is always “Torah”. Is it not?May 23, 2012 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #878245
As I remember my grandmother speaking Yiddish, the Yiddish spoken by Chassidim sounds nothing like it.May 23, 2012 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #878246
Yiddish was not around for a thousand years. It was for a number of centuries. A thousand years ago, the Ashkenazi Jews spoke standard German mamesh.May 23, 2012 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #878247
Zahavasdad, she was probably Litvish.May 23, 2012 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #878248☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
It’s interesting (and I guess expected) that people here on YWN (an English language site) feel there was too much Yiddish.
You should know, though, that in Williamsburg, many people are upset that there was so much English.
You can’t please everyone.May 23, 2012 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #878249
The litvish and chasidish have a different havara. Just as almost every language has people speaking it with different dialetcs. They are still the same language. And in almost all cases people speaking the same language with different dialetcs can easily communicate with each other.
Think Southern drawl.May 23, 2012 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #878250tzaddiqMember
i don’t speak yiddish very well, but respect that it is a universal jewish language and wish i could speak it in order to communicate with gedolim and rebbes, something i feel terrible that i am missing out on in life.May 23, 2012 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #878251a maminParticipant
Zehavasdad:The english you speak doesn’t sound anything like your grandparents either!!May 23, 2012 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #878252cherrybimParticipant
Yidden spoke English before they spoke Yiddish.May 23, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #878253147Participant
There is only 1 universal Jewish language:- HEBREW!!! The blue print of haShem:- Torah heKedsho is written in Hebrew.May 23, 2012 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #878254FashionableeMember
Look, I get why you feel annoyed that the asifah was in Yiddish, but can I know why the fact that someone talks a certain language within their home and community bothers you so much?
Just live and let live, my good people!May 24, 2012 2:35 am at 2:35 am #878255
In Williamsburg, they are upset about any amount of English at a Jewish gathering. They have their very shvere shitta: Hebrew is treif, and so is English. Only Yiddish is kosher.May 24, 2012 2:36 am at 2:36 am #878256
147, thank you for saying the obvious!May 24, 2012 2:38 am at 2:38 am #878257
Smartcookie, Yiddish is a dialect of German. Any German understands it.May 24, 2012 3:40 am at 3:40 am #878258
This was a chassidishe event, funded primarily by chassidishe money, what language did you expect it to be in?
If you feel that you were misled by the advertising and hype put out by the organizers of the asifa, that is another story for another thread.May 24, 2012 3:49 am at 3:49 am #878259cheftzeMember
Rav’s Ahron Schechter, Ahron Feldman, Elya Brudny, Harari Rafael, Matisyahu Solomon, Malkiel Kotler, etc are Chasidish?May 24, 2012 4:13 am at 4:13 am #878260
I don’t want to hijack this thread so will not pursue this particular discussion here.May 24, 2012 4:44 am at 4:44 am #878261cheftzeMember
You’re thinking since it was 2/3 Chasidish 1/3 Litvish you define it as a Chasidish event. But in fact that is a fair breakdown of the frum demographics today. There are more than double the number of chasidim than their are litvaks and other Orthodox. Simply due to the long-standing mathematics of their respective birth rates. Thus, in fact, it was a broad and representitive representation of the Torah world.
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