Falling in Love- a Jewish Concept?

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  • #593864

    memo
    Member

    Is falling in love a Jewish concept? Lets say you really like the guy right off the bat…does it mean your probably infatuated? Does love come after marriage- when you go through life together? I know Mrs. Gila Mansolon has books about love and relationships

    #724557

    myfriend
    Member

    Love comes after marriage. But that is besides the point. This secular idea from the goyim of “falling in love” as popularly used, is far far from something a Yid does.

    #724558

    aries2756
    Participant

    Memo, let me tell you a secret. Love comes and builds from caring for each other and giving to each other. When a couple gets engaged they are “really, really, REALLY in ‘like” with each other. After they are engaged and start spending more time together and start doing things for each other, the gateway for loving each other opens. The more they do for each other, the more opportunity for loving each other. The term “ahava” comes from the shoresh “hav” which means to give. So that is the “key” to a loving relationship. Anyone who tells you that they were head over heels in love with their choson when they got engaged is weaving a very nice fairytale.

    #724559

    memo
    Member

    okay…thats what i thought….so really the “love”ingness is like fluff-nothing at all? also there’s got to be a major diffrence between guys and girls reactions to all the lovey dovey stuff…i feel like guys are expressive and girls accept it but give in more ways like respect and admiration…like, girls dont out right say i love spending time with you! but a guy would tell you i love being with you! is that true?

    #724560

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    you know what happens when you fall in love…… you break your leg

    #724561

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    This secular idea from the goyim of “falling in love” as popularly used, is far far from something a Yid does.

    Then I guess that I am far, far from a Yid since I have been in love with Eeees for well over twenty years — and I don’t plan on ever stopping.

    The Wolf

    #724562

    wolf i think that quote and the whole thread have to do with “falling” in love, not “being” in love.

    in other words the question at hand is the concept of meeting someone for a few minutes, or just looking at them once, or going on a date or two and deciding you are in love with them.

    #724563

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I think being in love is a Jewish concept.

    I don’t know if it makes sense to say you are in love with someone you have met 6 times, but most secular people would agree with that.

    At the same time, it is absurd to pretend that no relationship exists between two people who have been dating for a while. If there was no relationship, you wouldn’t miss them when you break up.

    #724564

    please…..read the title and the first few responses.

    no one is arguing that “being” in love is only a non-Jewish idea.

    read: “falling”

    #724565

    kgh5771
    Participant

    So what does the pasuk mean when it says “VaYe’ehav Ya’akov et Rachel” (Breishit 29:18), where it is clearly stated before Yaakov marries Rachel?

    #724566

    thats a good question and deserves a good answer.

    so what do the Meforshim TELL us that it means?

    #724567

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Also, it says that Yitzchok loved the food that Esav brought. It uses the word “ahev”.

    What did Yitzchok give to the food?

    #724568

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    in other words the question at hand is the concept of meeting someone for a few minutes, or just looking at them once, or going on a date or two and deciding you are in love with them.

    Guess what? That happened to us as well. We both knew within a *very* short period of time that it was not a matter of “if” we would marry, but “when.”

    The Wolf

    #724569

    kgh5771
    Participant

    I think is’s very telling that Rashi is silent on this verse. It seems to mean that it should be understood as it is read.

    #724570

    kgh5771
    Participant

    I also think that there is room to say that there both ways are possible from a Torah perspective. Regarding Yitzchak and Rivka, the verse indicates that Yitzchak loved Rivka after marriage (Breishit 24:67)

    #724571

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Interestingly enough, the earlier the rishon the less they have to say about those words.

    #724572

    World Saver
    Member

    Is it a jewish concept? There is no problem with it in judaism. Does it need to be this way before? Definately not.

    #724574

    oomis
    Participant

    “What did Yitzchok give to the food?”

    His complete attention!

    #724575

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    How can you be in love without falling in love?

    I do think the nature of love changes. In the beginning, its puppy love. Then it matures into something deeper (hopefully).

    #724576

    oomis;

    I think p_b_a was joking. Obviously, there is something deeper going on here since the divine being we call Yitzchok avinu cannot be said to ‘love food’ like I like a nice thick medium rare steak on the grill with a little bit of A1 and a side of fries.

    #724577

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Actually, I think that it means Yitzchok enjoyed eating it because it tasted good.

    The physical sensations we have in life are not only intended as nisyonos. They are themselves intended to help in our avodas Hashem. Yitzchok wanted to eat things he enjoyed so that he would be in the correct mood to bless Esav.

    #724578

    RuffRuff
    Member

    Popa, I know of plenty great Tzaddikim, not exactly on the level of Yitzchock who didn’t derive pleasure from the taste of food. You are right in that he wanted to exite himself to the degree that a Bracha should spill forth from his soul.

    #724580

    oomis
    Participant

    “oomis;

    I think p_b_a was joking. “

    Derech Hamelech – So was I…

    #724581

    Ralphie
    Member

    Does one fall in love when he is m’kayim “Love thy neighbor as thy self”? Learn the meforshim before commenting on Yaakov’s love for Rachol. Understand R’ Elimelech’s “what love means” with the two drunks, Rav Dessler’s Michtav M’Eliyahu and others.

    Read “I Only Want to Get Married Once” by Chana Levitan or “Together We Are One – Making Marriage Work” by Eliezer Medwed to see what infatuation is and, conversely, what love is. They are NOT the same.

    #724582

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Ruff Ruff:

    What do you mean “didn’t derive pleasure”?

    If you mean they no longer had the sensation of pleasure; I don’t believe it.

    If you mean they no longer were actively involved in pursuing it, that sounds fine. But, they still probably used it for mitzvos. Like to help you enjoy shabbos, and yom tov. (Or to give brachos to esav)

    #724583

    RuffRuff
    Member

    There’s something between sensation and pursuit. How’s about, it gave them no pleasure. It just didn’t mean anything to them.

    #724584

    Tzvi Hirsh
    Member

    The non Jews have a song that goes like this:

    FIRST comes love, THEN comes marriage, Then comes Mary with the baby carriage.

    Jews say first comes MARRIAGE, the comes the BABY CARRIAGE, then comes the LOVE.

    Children and building a Jewish home cements the couple and is the basis for REAL LOVE

    #724585

    RuffRuff
    Member

    Now, after all that, we all agree that there has to be a “clicking” beforehand. You don’t just take the next one on line. So, let’s rephrase the OQ. Is there such a thing as instant “clicking”? To which, I’d say, why not?

    #724586

    anon for this
    Participant

    Tzvi Hirsh,

    Do couples without children not love each other?

    #724587

    Ruff: Clicking is not love.

    #724588

    memo
    Member

    ralphie: I heard of that book, I only want to get married once–sounds like a good book..judging from the title..i heard she clearly explains everything concrete and simple!

    …instant clicking is a good sign it means you get along,enjoy being together, miss each other when you’re not dating and communicate well all along…as time goes on youre clicking should grow as well… the actual love part comes after marriage…unlike popular goyish thought..

    #724589

    memo
    Member

    anon- if love comes from AHAVA from the shoresh HAV -to give… then the more they give to each other the more love…but couples without children can be very much in love- i know this as fact, they really give to each other: in terms of support, admiration, love, affection, care etc. i dont think children add to the love between the couple it might make the couple work harder for each other with children then leading to increase in giving=love to the whole family…btw it’s very important once there are children that couples have individuals dates alone time together..whether its going out to eat,vacations etc. the kids feel it after as well…

    #724590

    Tzvi Hirsh
    Member

    Anon

    For sure couples bond together and love one another more each day by building a Jewish home with or without children.

    #724592

    smartcookie
    Member

    Tzvi Hirsch- I totally disagree.

    Jewish couples that get married, have quite an amount of love to their spouse.

    Of course that love grows with time. But children have nothing to do with it.

    I think children challenge every marriage because life becomes hectic with kids. It’s much harder to give full attention to your spouse with a family of kids. Marriage requires a lot more work then.

    HOWEVER, the love only becomes more with each year you are married. You get to know your spouse better, and you share joy and sorrow together.

    #724593

    not I
    Member

    I think children bring out more of the love. Children are made up of both parents.. Ties them together even closer!

    #724594

    oomis
    Participant

    Does one fall in love when he is m’kayim “Love thy neighbor as thy self”? Learn the meforshim before commenting on Yaakov’s love for Rachol. “

    Perhaps I misunderstood the point of your post. There is a difference between v’ahavta L’ Rayacha, as opposed to Vaye’ehav Yaakov ES Rachel. It does not say V’ahavta ES rayacha. The ES, in my opinion, shows an added dimension to the love one should normally feel for his fellow man (as in the V’ahavta l’rayacha phrase) a dimension that applies to the love of one’s soul mate.

    Yaakov’s love for Rachel was instantaneous, he knew she was his basherte, and the Torah clearly defines how strong his love was for her, to the extent that he was willing to wait seven years in virtual indentured servitude to marry her, and then an additional seven years after being allowed to marry her, to “pay off” his shver for that privilege. That, is immeasurable love. It is not the same thing as the love we are commanded to show all mankind.

    #724595

    Ralphie
    Member

    oomis1105 – you’re referring to the Malbim’s p’shat on v’ahavta l’reicha k’mocha. Fine. My point was ‘falling in love’ is not a Jewish concept.

    Tzvi Hirsch wrote that love comes after babies. This too is not a Jewish concept. The Rambam’s chiyuv for a husband to love his wife comes from the second he places that ring on her finger. Of course, after 30 years of marriage their love is different than after 3 weeks – but he is m’chuyav to love her.

    He must also love his wife before having children or they will be ba’alei p’gam – 9 middos.

    #724596

    Tzvi Hirsh
    Member

    After 2 people marry they still have 2 separate souls.

    Children’s souls are connected to each of the parent’s souls at birth thru their spiritual genes. Then thru the children spiritual connection to their parents the parent’s individual souls become spiritually connected. The same process occurs between siblings.

    #724597

    Ralphie
    Member

    No, they’re two parts of the same soul.

    #724598

    RuffRuff
    Member

    Look at Rashi in the Pasuk of Vehayu Lebassar Echad.

    #724599

    Tzvi Hirsh
    Member

    Only if they were connected in passed lives and are now reconnecting

    #724600

    MDG
    Participant

    Falling in love = infatuation

    Real love takes time. Yaacov worked on himself before he met Rachel for 14 years, learning from Ever.

    #724601

    memo
    Member

    I guess this means in a healthy relationship children bring joy and happiness… if you look at very happy family the love between husband and wife is there… otherwise if the couple isn’t “in love” children might complicate things and unfortunately divorce is rampant!

    for the marrieds out there–a happy marriage sounds like a goal worth pursuing!

    #724602

    oomis
    Participant

    you’re referring to the Malbim’s p’shat on v’ahavta l’reicha k’mocha.”

    WOW! Really?????? What was his p’shat? I never learned it. This thought occurred to me as I was typing my reply.

    “Real love takes time. Yaacov worked on himself before he met Rachel for 14 years, learning from Ever. “

    Based on that type of thinking, then perhaps our bochurim should not be looking to get married so young, before they have had a chance to work on themselves for 14 years from the time they become Bar-Mitzvah. Yaakov left the Yeshivah of Ever, earned a parnassah and married his wives. (I am sure he learned in his spare time).

    Maasei Avos, etc. etc….

    #724603

    Ralphie
    Member

    Not true – the neshama was created as one. Then it split into the male and female parts only to be reunited upon marriage. That’s the comfort zone feeling upon finding your beshert. Kabbalah speaks at length about how both began as one and separated – it creates an energy to reunite (much like pulling a rubber band apart, it comes together with a greater force than if it was resting on a table).

    This is The Plan – no infatuation ‘falling in love’ like Hollywood portrays. And, by the way, couples not zoche to have children or who wait years before children come can have great love for each other.

    #724604

    bpt
    Participant

    Seeing as I must have said the word “ah’havah” at least 10 times this morning by shacris, love must be something we Jews believe in, so yes, I would say love is a Jewish concept.

    Falling? No, that’s something we try to avoid.

    #724605

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Guess what? That happened to us as well. We both knew within a *very* short period of time that it was not a matter of “if” we would marry, but “when.”

    The Wolf

    Wolf,

    It was the same with my wife and me. Wouldn’t you say, however, that your love has grown with time, or has it stayed the same?

    I think a lot of people here are using the word love to describe both infatuation and connection. Neither are “wrong” in their proper context. I feel that both are important.

    I used to live in a townhome that had a fireplace. To start a fire, I would place some large logs into the fireplace, along with a bunch of smaller, dry twigs and newspaper for kindling. The kindling would catch first, very quickly, and burn brightly, consuming all attention, but it wasn’t very hot and could extinguish very quickly if not nurtured and the logs didn’t catch. After a while, the logs would catch, and once they did, the fire produced a large amount of warmth, and would not extinguish easily. I think infatuation is kind of like the kindling, with the goal being a robust fire that warms your home.

    #724606

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It was the same with my wife and me. Wouldn’t you say, however, that your love has grown with time, or has it stayed the same?

    Of course it has grown. It has to or the relationship cannot survive.

    I think a lot of people here are using the word love to describe both infatuation and connection. Neither are “wrong” in their proper context. I feel that both are important.

    I agree with this point as well.

    The Wolf

    #724607

    phrum
    Member

    oomis1105, you are right on. If it’s good enough for Yankle Avinu it’s good enough (l’havdil) for me. Seems like you found that in your life, oomis1105 – mazel tov! Memo, keep looking. Everypn should be so blessed, Bizrat haShem!

    #724608

    winny1
    Participant

    why do parents love children more than children love parents? Because parents do more for their children than children do for the parents. The key to love is doing for the other spouse. The more you do for someone else, the more you love THEM.

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