December 25, 2008 2:14 am at 2:14 am #588987AnonymousInactive
There is a lot of controversy about teenage girls and cellphones. Some people feel that it’s safer for their daughters to carry one around, and others feel that it is not appropriate. What do you think on this?December 25, 2008 3:40 am at 3:40 am #1040522WolfishMusingsParticipant
Why is it any less appropriate for a teenage girl than a teenage boy?
The WolfDecember 25, 2008 4:08 am at 4:08 am #1040523
You are correct. It is appropriate for neither.December 25, 2008 4:12 am at 4:12 am #1040524AnonymousInactive
There isn’t really, just I decided to make this thread about girls in particular!December 25, 2008 4:15 am at 4:15 am #1040525chaimssParticipant
Precisely… they can both abuse it.December 25, 2008 5:31 am at 5:31 am #1040526yenta101Member
they can either use or abuse it!
it is good so mothers can always be in contact with their daughters but also bad because you don’t know what your daughter is doing on it.. but i think if once in a while you go through her contacts and stuff its ok!December 25, 2008 5:58 am at 5:58 am #1040527WolfishMusingsParticipant
Precisely… they can both abuse it.
Or they can both use it properly. Ultimately, like anything else, it’s up to the parents to know their kids and determine whether or not they are capable of using it responsibly. If they can, then it might be appropriate. If not, then it’s not.
The WolfDecember 25, 2008 8:34 am at 8:34 am #1040528amichaiParticipant
did you ever hear of the kosher phone? can’t abuse it too much cause there isn’t too much to do with it. just calls. no texts, sms, tv or internet. only calls. if a girl doesn’t want her mom to know where she is, she won’t answer.December 25, 2008 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #1040529SJSinNYCMember
Wolf you havent been around much of late! Welcome back! I enjoy your logical, sane approach amidst all the chaos 🙂December 25, 2008 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1040531myshadowMember
This is gonna turn out like all the other cell phone threads. Girls need it for safety reasons but parents have to control it.December 25, 2008 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1040532gabsMember
i think a cellphone is a great thing if used rightDecember 25, 2008 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1040533
myshadow, I agre with you, you can talk all you want but u will not get girls to give up their cell phones.
Just a story to show how sad pp are, so connected to their phones:
Rabbi Wallerstein was giving a shuir, and in the middle someone came in whispered something into his air, he told the crowd he needs people to pass up tehilims and siddurim which they will get back later, he got a whole box full and took it out of the room. Then later on in the shuir he told the crowd that he needs people to pass up their cells phones and after the shuir they will get it back…he got two cell phones!!!! Girls are willing to give up their tehilim siddur, which their grandparents in the holocaust would pay anything for, but their cell phones??!?!? a peice of metal?!? the story was vey scary and awakening to what cell phones have come to. not only can you do bad things with them, they become obsessed, I learn to limit myself so it does not come to that, I turn my phone off an hour before shabbos and on an hour or more after, it just makes sure that I am in control rather than friends who sleep with the phone in their hands.December 25, 2008 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #1040534beaconParticipant
“…rather than friends who sleep with the phone in their hands.”
My friend is like this. Sad.December 25, 2008 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #1040535oomisParticipant
In this day and age, it is a good idea for everyone to have a phone available. I see nothing wrong with it. In class the teacher can confiscate all phones at the beginning of the day. Don’t make it assur, make it user-appropriate. Another thing parents can do is buy a cellphone with pre-paid minutes that only the parent can re-activate when they run out of minutes. If they run out too quickly, they will have a job to explain to the parents exactly where those minutes went.December 25, 2008 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1040536anon for thisParticipant
Is it possible those attending the shiur did not want to pass their cell phones up because they didn’t want other people to see their contacts/ text messages? I rarely use my cell phone (I have one in case someone from my kids’ schools needs to contact me when I’m out) but I prefer to keep my info private.December 25, 2008 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1040537myshadowMember
[email protected], I happen to charge my phone on my bed cuz that’s where the outlet, but another thing, I work in kiruv and I’ve had girls call me at crazy hrs cuz they were in trouble or needed to talk. Having it across the room wouldn’t really helpDecember 25, 2008 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1040538miamimiamiMember
do you folks know about kajeet? it solves all the issues! (for boys and girls)December 25, 2008 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #1040539aziParticipant
Oh my, this place is getting crazier and crazier.December 25, 2008 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1040540
To [email protected]: Lending out a phone on which you are not paying the bill yourself could be prohibited because of Gezel (theft).December 25, 2008 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #1040541
josh – you mean cuz the parents are paying for it? so if friends comes over they can’t have water cuz the parents pay the water bill? come on! if a kid has a phone and lends it out it’s his choice!December 25, 2008 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #1040542
excuses, excuses, excuses.
Then they wonder why they have kids off the derech.December 25, 2008 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1040543
anon for this, it was not going to be displayed to people, I do understand privacy you want, although I would have no problem I have nothing to hide from anyone.
myshadow, I also charge my phone next to my bed where there is an outlet, and I do kiruv so I know what you are talking about with the children, but it is not under my pillow but rather on the floor.
Josh31, they were not planning on using them, but you are saying if I let my friend use my cell phone because Im not paying it is stealing?! If u go to a young married couple hu dont pay their home phone u cannot use it?December 26, 2008 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1040544KeepinEntertainedMember
my shadow, i have also worked in kiruv camp fro the past 3 sumemrs and have formed many close relationships with campers, a number of them who have serious issues and have a tendancy to call me at all hours of the nights, however, it comes to a point (and a hour in the night) where you just need to shut yourself down from the outside world and focus on yourself a little. your phone can charge by your bed (mine does too) but put it on silent! if it is an absolute emergency theyll find some other way to reach you.December 26, 2008 12:51 am at 12:51 am #1040545
I agree with keepingentertained, I also worked in a kiruv camp for three summers!also they have to learn some sort of responsability that they cannot rely and you, you cannot become their cructh, which alot seem to do.December 26, 2008 2:46 am at 2:46 am #1040546
Lending out items that are not fully yours and where significant expenses can be incurred that the owner will have to pay for is very problematic. What if those phones were going to be used for international calls? Having a friend make a local call in front of you may be less of a problem. Ask the owners of the phone account first. I do not have smicha in Choshen Mishpat (nor in Yoreh Deah for that matter).December 26, 2008 4:40 am at 4:40 am #1040547haravchananyaMember
SO, Joseph, do YOU have a cell phone????December 26, 2008 5:14 am at 5:14 am #1040548
thank you Josh for enlightening me on that matter. So if the person, not paying for it, but is being supported sees you using his thing it is ok?December 26, 2008 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #1040549
[email protected]: For specific details you need to ask your Rov. I am not a Rov so I can only raise questions, not give answers.
But, I would not lend my own phone out, even for a good cause where I could not verify that no high cost services nor international calling was being accessed.
It is apparent that when I was growing up that my teachers were significantly stricter in issues having to do with potential Gezel (theft). Also, everyone was much more careful with their own money. Hopefully the recent economic events and the Madoff scandal will be a wake up call for us all.December 28, 2008 3:42 am at 3:42 am #1040550postsemgirlMember
Why do you say that it is dangerous for girls and not boys? Do you know what boys do on thier phones? I think parents needs to know what kind of kid thier daughter or son is and then they can decide for themselves. I don’t think it is fair to say all teenage girls should not have phones. I have a phone and I Baruch Hashem do not do anything wrong with it. I think it is awful to make a blanket statement about girls abusing phone rights. maybe you can explain what you said.December 28, 2008 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1040551havesomeseichelMember
Just to show how sad it is getting with cellphones… at a shiur I was at, someone in front of me was texting to a friend. If it was an emergancy, then do it low-near-your-lap. But this person was texting high so that the Rav was able to see what was happening! Oh, and I was able to see what she texted… nothing in the emergancy-type of nature.
Another time I was listening to two students talking…”If i was unable to text, i would have no idea what to do during class!”
If you allow your children to text, then realize that it will be done during class and at other inappropriate times. A cell phone may be necessary if they have to walk a long way home from school or drive home! It is dangerous to not let them have it- just take off texting. I know ATAT allows you to ask to take all internet and texting functions off cells, so that way you get cheap plans and free mobile to mobile, but without these issues. (and maybe other companies, I just know for sure ATAT- you need to ask special for it and explain you are doing it to stop high text bills…)December 28, 2008 4:54 am at 4:54 am #1040552
Lending out a cell phone vs. lending out a tehillim.
Lets see… a tehillim costs $10. Cell phones can cost hundreds. That is not even taking in to account the loss of information stored on a cell phone.
Because someone in the holocaust would pay alot for it? They would pay a lot for a potato too, but i would give away a potato straight up. Forget lending.
Gimme a break. Very cute, Rabbi Wallerstein, but cute things can be stupid too.December 28, 2008 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1040553
i think you do have your head in the sand.
i think he meant that if you think something will happen to it – like it’ll get lost or damaged – then why are you willing to give up a siddur and not your cell phone. you’d faster let your $10 siddur get ruined than your $200 phone? well that was his point – you’ve just reinforced it.December 28, 2008 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #1040554
i think you do live in brooklyn and are 19
i’m not assuming the potential loss of the siddur would include it getting ruined because they were giving it to jews. Merely lost. I’ve got plenty of them at home. Just like potatoes.December 28, 2008 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #1040555
lol well you’re wrong about your first statement.
anyway, we’re supposed to cherish a siddur and tehilim. they’re not disposable. would you give away a shirt that easily? maybe. maybe not.December 28, 2008 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #1040556
well youre also wrong about your first statement (maybe).
Cherish a tehillim? they’re not disposable?
Why not? They are easily obtainable. I actually don’t have a sefer tehillim and have no need for one, but if I had an extra one, I would give it to any jew who I felt would make good use of it(other factors aside). Just like a potato.December 28, 2008 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1040557
In the past the focus of education of our daughters was in the area of Kashrus and Shabbos, but not in the laws of “damages” and theft. That was the emphasis of the education of boys. We live in a different world now where Jewish mothers no longer kosher their own chickens, but they drive cars and have cell phones. Education will need to be updated accordingly.
For one aware of the laws of “damages” and theft; lending out a cell phone is much more problematic than lending out a Siddur.December 29, 2008 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1040558
thank you brooklyn, I am trying to figure out if she got the point of the story and is just trying to make it sound funny, cuz she is sounding quite funny. Like I cant imagine that she is serious about that.December 29, 2008 1:04 am at 1:04 am #1040559
head in the sand – i’m gonna assume you’re getting it and you’re just playing dumb.December 29, 2008 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1040560
The point -that the main character of the story was trying to make- is indeed spelled out in that post. But cute as it may be, the story is stupid and the point that the character as is described was trying to imply and author of the post agrees with (that being that girls -subconsciously- feel that the loss of their phone is more devastating than the loss of sefer tehillim) is not proved from the story.
Losing a sefer tehillim entails a monetary loss of ten dollars or so and that’s it. We’re not talking about someone who doesn’t have the ability to obtain another.
The loss of a cell phone, however, is a devastating monetary blow. The even potential loss of the information stored on a cell phone is very depressing to even think about. Phone numbers can take weeks to restore. Notepads filled with monetary cheshbonos. Besides the inability to confidently collect money from others, what right do I have to let my phone out of my sight if it may result in my not properly repaying one person their due loan? The comparison is childish.
In conclusion, regarding my sefer tehillim ending up permanantly in the hands of a jew other than me, a sefer tehillim is indeed VERY dispensable. JUST LIKE A POTATO.
I like potatoes. Especially french fries, so if you will make me french fries I will give you one of my sisters tehillims, but I wouldn’t let you touch my cell phone.December 29, 2008 8:26 am at 8:26 am #1040561chaimssParticipant
I think we’ve been getting off the topic to analyze R’ Wallerstein’s point.
I am one of those teens who would never be able to get around without my cellphone. (A point I made very clearly on one or two occasions when I accidentally forgot it at home and my parents, etc. couldn’t reach me. They never bothered me about ‘needing vs. wanting’ a phone after that.) Anyway, not only do I not have a Kosher phone, I have an LG Voyager which, if you’ll google it, you’ll find it’s quite the opposite. But I use the features (besides for the live TV, which I blocked) responsibly and it’s very nice to be able to listen to music, look up bus/train schedules, e-mail, etc. wherever I am. Do I need those things? No, but they’ve saved my parents a lot of trouble.
I really think it all boils down to finding the balance between the danger and the benefit. (And if this makes no sense, that’s what you get for posting at 3:00 AM 🙂 )December 29, 2008 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #1040562postsemgirlMember
I agree with you. My phone doesn’t do all of that but it does save my parents a lot of trouble. Anyway you weren’t the one who shouldn’t have the cell phone. it’s the “teenage girl” who shouldn’t because we do many things wrong with our cell phones… yeah right!December 29, 2008 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1040565
Rabbosai, Cell phones and children is a large part of why Kids go off the derech and the teens at risk issue.
You are playing with fire. If you give your kids phones now, don’t cry later when they C’V become ”at risk” and R’L go off the derech.December 29, 2008 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1040566squeakParticipant
Before cell phones, kids weren’t at risk? If you don’t give them one, they can’t get it themselves?
NO! Follow-up parenting is needed, I am sure. But what you said, Joseph, is out of line. Blogs are also a large part of why kids go off the derech. You are reading a blog. You read others. You are playing with fire.
Chanoch l’naar al pi darko. Be in touch with a Rov, rabbeim and moros. And be an active parent. But following your blanket statement is not going to save any neshamos.December 29, 2008 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1040567
Joseph: only if there is internetDecember 29, 2008 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #1040568
yros – WRONG!December 29, 2008 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1040569
Brooklyn19: please explain to me what is wrong with it if it has no internet.December 29, 2008 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1040570
talking, texting, picture messagesDecember 29, 2008 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #1040571000646Participant
you said “Rabbosai, Cell phones and children is a large part of why Kids go off the derech and the teens at risk issue”.
Thats ridiculous, No it isnt!
Were do you get your information from?December 29, 2008 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1040572
from kids like me, remember?December 29, 2008 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1040573
brooklyn19, what is wrong with talking on the phone, girls anyways talk, what is wrong with texting, it’s better than talking. what in the universe is wrong with picture message.
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