- This topic has 772 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 8 hours, 29 minutes ago by .
-
Posts
-
sechel says j said not to keep mitsvos
mathew said j said to keep mitsvos
gmara sechel brings is not unanimously accepted as referring the founder of the xtian religion
.
but I hear sechels safek proof
.
.1] yehoshua b prachya lived much before the historical j we are talking about
so the j which is our subject was not the talmid discussed in that gmara
2] the second gmara mentions that j was busy with kishuf , which might explain the so-called wonders he allegedly performed
and that j was meisit umediach et yisrael
a term which normally is used for causing and promoting avoda zara
gmara does not state which avoda zara
the only avoda zara from those times we know about , is the belief and worship of j himself
so , besides j’s kishuf
and j’s promotion of self worship
he would not be worthy of any punishment
possibly because he was a shomer torah in all other aspects
if we are to believe this pupil of j , called mathew
.
.
in other words according to the abovej was a shomer torah but in addition to his proclaimed shmirat mitsvot and professed belief in nits’hiyut hatorah , he was also
a self proclaimed navi , a self proclaimed messiah who promoted self worship and performed so called ‘miracles’ with the power of the samech mem.
.
.I know firsthand of many attempts by xtians to draw on the similarities between the late rebbi of habad and their j ,
to justify and promote their own dead god
.
.should habad not take this into consideration before they embark on their roller coaster novel theological experiments
designed to inflate and overstate their own leader’s importance ???
.
.To Sechel
I’m sure you’re aware that logical arguments fall on Lubavitchers deaf ears. The Christian belief that J is the son of God is accepted by billions. Is the Chabad belief any less insane? Schneerson had a dream when he was 3 years old that he became the ruler of the world. Many Rabbis explain that all other religions begin with a single individual who claims to have had a Divine visitation. In contrast, all the Jewish nation heard the first 2 Commandments directly from Hashem. That’s why we know that our religion is true and the others including Schneerson’s latest are false.
sechel (sorry it’s from 3 days ago, but I’ve been busy): “Larger than life is not a good source. Look in the back where he gets the story from – one chasid -. Just a rumor.”
Yep, and thus far less reliable than all the garbage made up by the real chassidim.
…. in other words , according to the above
j was a shomer torah
but in addition to his proclaimed shmirat mitsvot and professed belief in nits’hiyut hatorah , he was also
a self proclaimed navi , and
a self proclaimed messiah who promoted self worship and
performed so called ‘miracles’ with the power of the samech mem.
.does anyone see similarities ?
.
To ARSo
I mentioned in an earlier post how Chabad dismissed Rav Shach and Dr. Berger. They take it one step further with regard to Rabbi Deutsch. They ignore whatever he wrote by saying that Rabbi Deutsch wanted to be the next Rebbe and therefore he made up lies about the Rebbe.
So I guess qwerty just admitted that he doesn’t believe in gemara. (regarding the gemaras about nevuah and every jew being redeemed, we went thru this already)
Just pointing it out. I wonder if he reform? Who am I debating with??!!@yankel berel
There are different options
By j we have chazal telling us the facts, you can’t argue with chazalI only noticed this thread quite late in the piece – I think it was up to page 14 at the time – and only yesterday I read the very first pages. So please forgive me if I’m rehashing stuff that was already mentioned.
First, is CS the same as Chabad Shlucha (and the same as Chabad Shluchah with an ‘h’ of old)?
Second, what is going on with that CS woman? She has her very own version of emunah, where she either has all the answers or she knows that her people have them, and she therefore feels sorry for those of us (and the vast vast majority of Yidden) who do not believe that the L rebbe was EVER a candidate for Mashiachship. Does she really not realize that the entire basis of her so-called belief is just like a house of cards, but in her case the bottom layer of cards are non-existent.
Not one of her beliefs in that area withstand the scrutiny of any non-Lubavicher – regardless of his opinion of Lubavich itself – who has the slightest understanding of limud Hatorah and real, reliable sources.
And she doesn’t learn much Tosfos because she has other priorities (thank the Good L-rd for that!), but she would if she had more time as her rebbe says she can. The same is true with Zohar!
Is this really what she and others consider Lubavich hashkofah?! Hashem yishmor!
On another related topic, Lubavich has always held that view – and don’t tell me it hasn’t because I daresy I’ve been around them a lot longer than nearly all of you others here – that the rebbe is the only one who can tell them what is right and wrong when it comes to innovations.
How then can they justify the almost-kishuf of opening the igros at random to get answers to their questions? As far as I am aware, there has never been anything like that in history, even by the most fanatical groups. And please don’t tell me stories about chassidim putting kvittlach into seforim written by their Rebbes. (In the past I have had a number of Lubavichers attempt that disingenuous and worthless explanation.) That is not the same thing at all, as they are not deriving any answers to questions from where they place the kvittel.
Yes, I know there’s the Goral Hagra, and other types of goralos, but this is something that was invented after the death of the L rebbe by common garden-type Lubavicher chassidim, not by any tzaddik or gadol Batorah.
Getting back to CS’s weird statements (and again, I apologize if this has already been dealt with): I estimate we have about 3 days before the True Moshiach is revealed and I want to reach as many Jews as possible before the time is up
(“True Moshiach” sounds so xian to me, but I’ll ignore that for the time being.) What on earth is this “3 days” about? You do realise that, like all Lubavich predictions in the past, your prediction fell flat on its face, as those 3 days elapsed over 150 days ago… or do you have some way of worming out of that one?
The secret Geula final ketz (which hasn’t happened yet and has also simultaneously passed) can be found in the Zohar
I try sometimes not to insult too much, but seriously, have you been taking your meds?
what’s unique about Chassidus CHABAD is that it brings G-dliness into human understanding and logic<\em>
Do you really believe everything you were taught in Beis Rivkah and in sem?!
Very likely techias hameisim is in 4 years
Does that mean that we may have to wait a full four years to ask you to answer that prediction?
To the group
Many years ago Rabbi Dovid Hollander told me, “Don’t try to understand a Rosho because you’re not a Rosho.” Sage advice but if you train yourself you can get into the head of a Rosho. Many non isobservant Jews ask how one can believe in Hashem after the Holocaust. The answer is simple. I believe in Hashem but I don’t understand Hashem. The same applies to Chabad. You can’t ask them any questions because they consider Schneerson God and so he can reject what the Torah says because he transcends the Torah.
To the group
Menachem Shmei, Nope and CS disappeared when they realized that no one is buying their garbage. Sechel , however, won’t give up. As I’ve clearly demonstrated Schneerson was a Kofer for rejecting the Gemara which said that there is no Nevuah until Moshiach comes and for rejecting the Gemara which says that only one out of 300000 Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach. These are the simple facts that every real Jew accepts. Sechel is part of a religion started by that dead Kofer so he has a different point of view.
To Sechel
I see that you learned two things from Nope your Rebbe. First, to hurl meaningless accusations a me. Second you refuse to answer my questions. But I don’t forget them. So I’ll repeat, Since Lubavitchers don’t believe in punishment why do you study Pirke Avos? This second question is a new one. Since your dead Kofer shut down Gehinnom why do you clowns say Kaddish for your loved ones? Of course we have the 3rd question, “If you don’t believe in Rambam why do you study him?”
Qwerty is a liar and keeps asking the same questions. Open up the gemara and read!!
I should follow Menachem shmais way, no point in arguing with people who reject gemaras and believe in the new testamentYou know redemption is a state of mind and a frequency so yes only 30000 Jews will be redeemed from galus. Lol this isn’t about coming out galus literally.
Also just because someone said something doesn’t make it true it needs to hold up to _scrutiny_ not just believed by Devine right. I can say trump is mashaich cuz he rode on a white donkey and trimpence was heard across the whole earth. We need to verify not just believe
you are simply not answering .
the first gmara you brought is not talking about j the founder of xtianity.
yehoshua b prachya lived a good few generations earlier.
—the second gmara you brought, mentions only kishuf and meisit umadiach [promoting to serve a’z ]
not any other averot – so other mitsvot j kept.
like the quote of his pupil matew
—which a’z was j guilty of promoting ?
himself
j turned himself into a’z
eerie similarities to a certain false messiah in our times
.
that was my posthave not seen any answer from you yet …
.
.Not to be mean to chabad I think at the end of the day every society holds weight and value and purpose. Maybe they connect with what the rebbe says. Just like you connect to what gemarah says. There idol worship in both our religions. Anyways tho about the kvitlach and the rebbe’s book with answers you can actually do that with _anything_ with the right “intention” if I make a book with pictures and I make them in a specific manner that they may mean something partianing to life and you come and have the intention to get answers you will actually always get an answer from this book. Even the Torah you can do it with. It’s called tarot cards lol. Same concept
according to the gmara
a] j was busy with kishuf , which might explain the so-called wonders he allegedly performed
and that
b] j was meisit umediach et yisrael
a term which normally is used for causing and promoting avoda zara
.
.gmara does not state which avoda zara
the only avoda zara from those times we know about , is the belief and worship of j himself
so , besides j’s kishuf
and j’s promotion of self worship
according to the gmara
he would not be worthy of any punishment
possibly because he was a shomer torah in all other aspects
as is documented , if we are to believe this pupil of j , called mathew
.
.so-
was j shomer torah ?yes.
.
.To yankel berel
You got post 770. I hope that’s not a bad sign. Just Kidding. Leave Sechel alone. He looks like he’s on the verge of a breakdown.
To none2.0
You sound like the Lubavitchers I used to debate on VIN. Every group thinks their Rebbe is Moshiach. Every group thinks he’s a Novi. Every group thinks he’s god. No only Chabad says these things about it’s Rebbe.
Re examination of passionately held beliefs should not be cause for a breakdown
It should be a cause for the heady feeling of freedom and maturity
a feeling of not being enslaved by previous opinions
a feeling of openness and willingness to always learn more , know more , and
grow
—sechel , like the long disappeared menachem , is most probably digesting the new information and re considering his identity
otherwise why would they be so quiet for so long
.
.To yankel berel
You’re rational and so you’re assuming that the Lubavitchers are also rational but that’s not so. Sechel and Menachem Shmei and Nope can’t digest what we’re telling them because it runs a foul of their entire existence. Sechel is now playing the stupid attack QWERTY game hoping he can find adherents. For me this thread is not about rehabilitating Chabad. There is no hope for them. My objective is to get the fools on the fence like Yaakov Yosef A to wake up. I know that’s not easy. My son fights with me about Chabad. He refuses to believe how sick they are and I know it’s because he attends a Chabad shul on Shabbos. When I presented clear cut evidence that the Rebbe convinced himself that he’s Moshiach when he was three, he grudgingly accepted it. I have no problem going to a Chabad shul. I know that the Rabbis are probably idolaters but they’re very nice. For me it’s just a place to get a minyan, but most people who deal with them become influenced.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.