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sechel:
Calling the rebbe a … Is apikorses—-
I called him a non navi .
is that apikorses ?
.Qwerty
Why don’t you call up Rabbi Manis Friedman and ask him.
I think there is schar and onesh but I agree that hashem is understanding and merciful and takes into consideration what today’s generation is going thru.To yankel berel
I wouldn’t worry about being called an Apikorus by Chabad. Menace said that no Jew can be punished anymore.
To Sechel
You didn’t answer my question but that’s all right. I’ll address your comment. According to Menace no Jew can be punished today because Hashem is merciful. Okay, so we have a Rabbi in a Yeshiva who’s a serial child molester. According to Menace Hashem won’t punish him because He’s merciful. But what about the victims? Why isn’t Hashem merciful to them? Checkmate.
sechel: “I think there is schar and onesh but I agree that hashem is understanding and merciful and takes into consideration what today’s generation is going thru.”
Sorry, but to me that seems a meaningless statement. When Hashem judges each individual he does so according to that individual’s personality, emotional makeup, his life experiences, and everything else that makes him the person he is, as those are the way Hashem made him. It has always been that way, and it always will.
Furthermore, who are we to say that this generation has it any harder than any other generation? We don’t have the same desire for avodah zarah and (surprisingly) for arayos as the generation of Anshei Knesses Hagedolah (see Sanhedrin 64a), and each generation has its own nisyonos.
Isn’t it just that we have been mollycoddled and feel that we deserve an easier life with fewer nisyonos? (And yes, that feeling of being deserving may itself indeed be one of this generation’s great nisyonos.)
To ARSo
Beautifully said. Menace isn’t a Kofer because Rabbi Feldman said he is, he’s a Kofer because he wants to change a fundamental principle of Judaism. I’d like to apologize for the things I said to you last year. Please be Mochel me. We’re on the same team and our “Coach” is Hashem’s Torah.
To Nope
I’d like to thank you for telling the truth. You’re more than welcome to join the discussion. And I don’t mind if you use your tactics on me. They keep me on my toes.
You know, qwerty613 keeps stating again and again that R. Feldman called R. Friedman a kofer. So I guess I have to repeat some points I made in another thread:
“Note, too, that R. Feldman _doesn’t_ call R. Friedman a kofer. He says that his statements are kefirah and that he’s a “bor birshus harabbim” (a pit – i.e., danger – in the public domain). You may think those are the same thing, but they are not; as an example, R. Hillel makes a statement in Sanhedrin 99a (אין משיח לישראל) which the Gemara itself harshly criticizes, and which the Radvaz says is flat-out kefirah – and he also says that R. Hillel is not branded a kofer for it, but an annus.”
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“Watch the video again and see what R. Feldman says about R. Friedman. He calls him a “bor birshus harabbim,” a “fool,” and an “am haaretz” – but ***not*** a “kofer.” Seems that you just looked at the title of the video and didn’t bother watching it. Well, I did, and if you listen to the whole thing – it’s less than four minutes; surely you can spare that amount of time – you’ll see that the words “he is a heretic/kofer/whatever” ***do not*** appear in R. Feldman’s actual speech. So, for you to repeat, after this was pointed out to you, that “R. Feldman called him a Kofer” and to accuse me of “twisting what Rabbi Feldman said” is a flat-out lie, of the kind that you claim to be so against!”
And several other claims of his in that thread that I demonstrated were flat-out lies. His response? Not “You’re right, I’ll do better.” Not “I’m sorry for my lies and misrepresentations.” No, pretending that he holds the moral high ground and that my points aren’t even worth responding to.
So, we seem to have pretty well established that qwerty613’s posts are, to use his own wording on the previous page, “a house of lies.” Perhaps, now that this has been brought to the attention of others here, they’ll know how to evaluate his other claims too. Until, of course, a new thread is started, and he’ll repeat the same lies again, figuring that no one will bother checking back on him…
To yankel berel
Yo reference the Dvar Malchus of 5751 but I think that the Rebbe’s plans go much farther back. We’re constantly told that when he was beginning Cheder he had a vision of Moshiach. I think that it was at that point he decided he was destined to rule the world.
To the group
Nope is correct in stating that Rabbi Feldman didn’t call Me ace a Kofer, rather he stated that his statements were heretical. So we’ll focus on the statements. One the belief that G-d has human attributes, to be precise as per Menace, “G-d d needs us more than we need him.” Then we have Menace statement that G-d sounds like a monster for creating sins and getting angry at man for committing them. Finally we have the statement from Menace that no person can be punished no matter what he does because of the bitter exile. According to Rabbi Feldman these statements are heresy, but Nope does not accept what Rabbi Feldman said because he believes that Rabbi Feldman was obligated to call Menace and ask him to explain what he meant. The problem with that suggestion is that Rabbi Efren Goldberg interviewed Menace and asked him how he could say that G-d has needs and Menace said that this is his opinion and he won’t change it. Checkmate.
To the group
My father AH liked to tell this joke, “What’s the definition of Chutzpah? Someone kills his father and mother and then asks the court for mercy because he’s an orphan.” Well we now present Nope who takes that several steps further. In the thread he mentioned above about Religious Zionism Nope admitted that he not only tried to convince me to be Mechallel Yom Kippur but he urged me to take a video of myself eating treif on that day and to send it to him for his viewing delight. This is an example of his depravity. And now he hopes to “prove” that I’m a liar so the posters will reject my comments. Last year Menachem Shmei begged the moderators not to print my posts. Now this. Chabad and it’s acolytes are deathly afraid of me. I take that as a compliment. It means that my message is coming through. Oh yeah Checkmate.
to qwerty
you are right
harav mibrisk has been reliably quoted – when he read the first sicha of their rebbi , after they took the so called ‘nesi’ut hador’ from the rashag [r shmaryahu gurary] the oldest son in law of the rayats .
that this newly minted rebbi fantasizes that he is the mashiach
interesting how certain people can see things beshoresh while others barely see them even when begaluy.
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.qwerty: “I’d like to apologize for the things I said to you last year.”
No problem. But a request and a word of advice: please stop using invectives and name-calling (e.g. Menace Friedman). It waters down the strength of what you write because it makes it sound childish.
yankel berel: “the question , to sechel , should be , and that’s arso’s intention [hope to have gotten this right] was there a change in schar va ‘onesh , or not, not whether there was a change in circumstances”
Yes, exactly. The rules stay the same, and they apply equally to each individual. It’s just that each individual is judged on his abilities, his personality and his circumstances, all of which are orchestrated by Hashem. And it has always been that way.
In other words, I understand R Manis Friedman as being like R Levi yotzchok of barditshuv. Being milamed zchus on yidden. Very simple. You want to understand otherwise – good for you call him whatever you want , but know you’re just looking in a mirror of yourself
To ARSo
Chazal teach that a wise person learns from everyone so I’ll take your advice and drop the menace label.
To Sechel
You’re missing my point. It’s one thing to be Dan Likaf Zchus someone who doesn’t keep Shabbos or eat kosher. On the other hand, when someone hurts another person intentionally he doesn’t get a pass. Is that too hard for you to understand?
To Nope
Congratulations. You convinced Sechel that I’m a liar. Now comes the hard part, convincing actual Jews.
To the group
Sechel just came up with a powerful Rashi. I guess I’ll have to renounce my belief in Hashem. Now Nope is excited. He’s going to demand that I make a video in which I swear that I no longer believe in the Ribono Shel Olam and send it to him. Oh. Too bad I lost his contact information. Can someone tell him to send it to me again. Lol.
fact is and remains that xtianity is using the habad mashiach fiasco and theological jokes , for their own nefarious purposes.
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As some examples of their misuse of habad theology:
if menachem mendel can be a navi – against long held jewish tradition
then j could tooif menachem mendel could come back as mashiach – against long held jewish tradition
then j could tooif menachem mendel could be characterized as “pnei adon hashem”
then j could tooif menachem mendel is worthy of being prayed to
then j is tooif menachem mendel is the resting place of ein sof
then j is tooand the list can go on and on ….
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.habad ‘s daring theological innovations are not daring .
they are downright dangerous …..
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.To yankel berel
To your point, I have a patient who was a Ben Bayis by the Noviminsker Rebbe ZTL for many years. He told me that the Noviminsker attended Schneerson ‘s installation as Rebbe in 1951 and he described it as a coronation. Right now Nope will insist that I provide the name of the patient and a signed letter from the Noviminsker attesting to this statement. When I said that Nope is Chutzpadik I meant that he’s an admitted Meisis and he still has the nerve to impugn my integrity.
To yankel berel
Are you saying that Christians realize what Chabad is doing or are you saying that they’ll realize it in the future?
@yankel berel
you missed some “details” about j
he said you dont need to keep mitzvos anymore
he served avoda zara
kishuf
much more
basically was a mumar
if the only issues were what you write, then maybe i would follow him, why not?heard thar originally rashag was meant to be the rebbi of the habadi’s
rashag meaning r shmaryahu gourary , the first son in law of rayats
he was engaged to be married to rayats’s eldest daughter while rashab was still alive
rashab was rayats’s father and son of maharash , the youngest son of tsemah tsedeq
ramam [later morphed into maham shilo] did not see rashab , his shidduch did not merit rashabs blessing whereas rashags did.
the then rebbe rashab okayed the shidduch between rashag and rayats’s eldest daughter as rashag was at the time from the cream of the temimim .
temimim were the bachurim learning in the habad yeshivot in russia founded by rashab
rashab did not okay ramam’s shidduch because he was not alive when that happened
hard to believe he would have okayed that.
interesting to note that rashab left in his tsava’a an extra portion for the eldest of his granddaughters [the then kalla of rashag]
more than what was allotted for the other girls
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.To yankel berel
I defer to you because you obviously have a wealth of knowledge about Chabad. All I know is from the experiences that I’ve had with Lubavitchers. I appreciate your input. I know that you’re reliable and I learn a lot from you.
To Sechel
Are you actually saying that you would consider following J? Judaism declared Christianity idolatry and that wouldn’t bother you. I can’t say that I’m surprised. If you believe in one dead Jewish god why not believe in a second one.
To the group
Nope is surprisingly quiet. You should have seen him on VIN. He matched me word for word. But it’s different here for him. His lies and distortions don’t work because he knows that there are people who will challenge him. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
@yankel berel
Why do you think differently about the rashab then you do of the rayatz? Rayatz okayed the shiduch!To yankel berel
Is it true that Schneerson married Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka knowing she was sterile because a deal was made for him to become Rebbe?
j is quoted as saying to his disciples : I did not come to add or detract anything from torat mosheh
he did not serve avoda zara
he claimed not to have used kishuf only made miracles
what is your source for him having been a mumar ?
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re xtians in the present or the future.
my answer would be – both, the present and the future.
it has been rumored that rayats okayed it because he knew his daughter
she had a reputation of being open minded and more modern
whereas his eldest daughter was more chassidsh and frum ,
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.that explains how a chasidic rebbi took a university graduate as a son in law.
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17 Don’t think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets’ Writings. I didn’t come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 I promise you, until heaven and earth are gone, not one hyphen nor one dot will be gone from the Law before everything is fulfilled. 19 So whoever breaks the least important commandment, and teaches people to do so, will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 I tell you, unless your righteousness is better than that of the religious teachers and the Pharisees, there’s no way you’ll enter the kingdom of heaven.
Allegedly this is j talking, as reported by his talmid by the name of mathew in chapter 5
he is clearly advocating for keeping the torah
However ,we all know where his movement ended up – into avoda zara .
not that he served other avoda zara .
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.no .
rather , he turned himself into an avoda zara
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.and the literal rivers of Jewish blood and tears were its repercussions.
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.so mr sechel its good you did not follow him in any way shape or form , notwithstanding his reported allegiance to the torah
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.rashab was more accepted outside of habad compared to rayats
yankel > being open minded and more modern whereas his eldest daughter was more chassidsh and frum … that explains how a chasidic rebbi took a university graduate as a son in law.
is it not possible to be open-minded and frum? or even open-minded and chassidish? I omit “modern” that this is a meaningless term.
Even R Moshe “took a university graduate as a son in law” – even the one who was teaching biology at YU, and even teaching his daughter gemorah …
It is well known from gemora (and also 20th century’s physics) that talent is inherited from the father to son-in-law. That is, you deal with your sons as they are, but there is some freedom of choice in the son-in-law, and the greater the father (and daughter) is, the greater the son-in-law will be. So, maybe some rabonim felt that learning-only is appropriate for their sons to inherit the yeshiva, but son-in-laws can fulfill his dreams. R Auerbach chastised his yeshiva student young R Lau when the latter expressed disinterest in studying sciences – how can you not be excited in learning maasei Hashem?!
To yankel berel
The fact that we’re discussing Yeshu in a thread about Chabad speaks volumes. Unfortunately people don’t want to see the obvious parallels.
To the group
Rabbi Miller made it a point that neither Yushka nor his disciples ever suggested that he was a Novi, but Schneerson took that title for himself and his predecessor.
These are just rumors.
In chabad all the Rebbe’s are the same,
Good for you guys
Keep learning the new testament@qwerty what’s worse
1) serial child molester
2) someone who is choshed a whole group of Jews as Christians?To Sechel
According to Rabbi Manis Friedman both types are perfect Tzaddikim because no Jew can be punished due to the long exile. And you agree with him. Therefore if I say and,/or suggest terrible things about your Rebbe/god nothing can happen to me. Isn’t that correct? Checkmate.
no one is choshed a group of Jews as xtians .
totally irrelevant comment to this discussion.
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sechel is not answering , as befits a good habad apologist
sechel claimed that j did not keep the torah , therefore according to sechel , there are no similarities between habad and j .
when we quote j’s disciple word for word , showing j defending torah , sechel gives a clear non answer.
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.does that mean sechel simply does not have an answer ,
or maybe sechel does have an answer and for some mysterious reason he doesn’t share ???
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.I have no knowledge about rayats’s second daughter’s alleged infertility
but I seem to remember about r’ levi , the false mashiachs father, when meeting rayats prior to his sons shiduch with rayats’ daughter , angling for his sons ‘rebisteva’
but rayats would not be drawn and refused any hithayvut for his second son in law’ future in any so called admorut
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.To yankel berel
At this point Sechel is just throwing out whatever nonsense comes into his “head” hoping something will stick. Menachem Shmei saw that the fight is over and so he’s in hiding. Nope thought he could get someone to side with him in his campaign to malign me but it didn’t work so he also bowed out. This week’s Jewish Press features an essay by Rabbi Moshe Taragin who a Chabad loving YU guy. He wrote about the important role that the belief in Moshiach plays in Judaism and credited Schneerson for bringing the subject to light. Unfortunately he’s not honest enough to acknowledge that Chabad will never accept the real Moshiach.
J was put to death because he was a masis. I don’t care what it says in the new testament.
These rumors about the the Rebbe’s father and the rayatz – made up bologna btw. Check your sources.
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