February 15, 2012 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #868648
I have relatives in Williamsburg, and I live in a community with all types of Yidden, including some Satmar families, so I see them all the time and even know some Satmar people.
You are 100% right that Satmar has more chumros than almost anyone else. But she lied about some of those chumros and distorted the others.February 15, 2012 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #868649
Whoa!! I don’t even know where to start? First of all Feif Un:;I’ve said this before, your name says it all , you’re here to feif un, so why is anyone defending themselves for you? You are totally NOT aware of the truth in Chasidic circles, SO STAY OUT! 00646: You can join him!
As far as early driving, underage? NO ONE CHASIDISH lets their kids drive before they’re married!! FACT!! Most girls graduate at 18 not 16 , and halevey they could all get married at that point. I’ve married off quite a few Baruch Hashem, and I say better young than later… but thats a whole other thread! Sam 2 and Zehavasdad: I send you both warmest regards! I don’t agree with anything you are saying , now provide PROOF!This thread is becoming as ridiculous as she is!February 15, 2012 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #868650
For ALL you misnagdim: Next time you’re in Willi check out all the restaurants and tell me how many women you see? All rebels I guess??February 15, 2012 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #868651
You did not answer why my friend who taught at a Satmar School was called a Sheygetz
Because to these insular kids he looked like a shaygetz. Shaygetz in chassidish can mean a non-frum Jew, not only a goy. Yes, the parents should have explained to them the difference between chassidish, yeshivish, MO and secular, and I do, but they didn’t. Now let’s talk about the failings of MO parents that turn out 50% teens who text on Shabbos.February 15, 2012 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #868652
If that is your assumption, then she certainly is up to no good.
msseeker: Yes. If you want, I will use the term “react strongly” instead of “defensive” (which you may feel is negative).
my way of life is being dragged through the mud by my fellow Jew
Be strong and ignore her. Hashem and His Torah is your justification. Besides, I wouldn’t call it a Chillul Hashem, if what we are doing is right. Taharas Hamishpacha is not a Chillul Hashem. Let people know that we sacrifice for our Ribbono Shel Olam (isn’t that what we always tell the MO?)
For some reason, the Chassidish women “react strongly” to this, just like MO “react strongly” when someone disrespects Rav Kook. It’s only natural.
That will be $125. 😉February 15, 2012 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #868653
BTW Ive walked down Lee Ave and walked into some of the stores on Lee Ave and you can see and feel how the Satmar Looked at me and my family and no we were not dressed crazy.
GOTCHA! Up until now, I considered you a harmless crank.
Either you are just expressing your own inadequacy and realizing you should look more like a Jew, at least when you are among Jews – or you are just lying the way the author lies.
I am sure you know the history between Chabad and Satmar (BH it is way behind us; it was a matter of miscommunication and the work of a few oisvorfen who were out to destabilize Satmar as much as they were to hurt Chabad). Anyone from Satmar can tell very easily that I am from Chabad, and I’m not Yerushalmi Chabad so my dress is nothing like that of Satmar.
I have never felt more welcomed than when I walked along Lee Avenue one Shabbos morning a few years ago on the way to the Lower East Side to daven in a friend’s shul. More people wished me git Shabbos than do at home, and I ended up being sorry I could not run into one of the shuls for tea as I am sure I would have had a good time meeting Yidden or even hearing divrei Torah on the way. They also offer us water and cookies every time we walk through Willy in groups – so much for old misunderstandings.
I had a minor car emergency on a legal holiday in 1992 and the closest frum store that was open was on Lee Ave. In 1992, there still were some bad feelings between the communities, so I was a little concerned. I parked my car, with a picture of the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZYA on the front and a giveaway bumper sticker on the back, on Lee Avenue and ran into the hardware store (the one on the same side of the street as Donath’s, for any Willyites who are reading this) to get a jug of antifreeze and some brake fluid. All that happened was that the owner asked me how we were managing after the riots, and wondered how we could live in CH after the mess.
Ever heard of Satmar Bikur Cholim? Like Reb Yoilish, whose Rebbetzin founded it, they don’t care what a Jew believes or what he (and more often she) looks like – they are there to help.February 15, 2012 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #868654
Popa, yes, I agree – and the one thing I should add is that if you conduct yourself in a manner that makes them think you are looking for trouble, Satmarers will make sure you do not have a chance to make any trouble. It would not surprise me to find out that Zdad and family conducted themselves as if they were tourists looking at the locals the way I look at chayes and behemas in the zoo – and if so, I understand why they got such a reaction.
13th Ave is an outdoor mall and a tourist attraction. Willy, even Lee Ave, is a residential neighborhood. Even the other avenues in BP except New Utrecht and 18th, to say nothing of just about any BP side street, are very different from 13th Ave.February 15, 2012 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #868655
I have been to Kiryas Joel (for minyan) and been welcomed, no one looked at me like I had three eyes.February 15, 2012 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #868656
I just read the The Great Bear’s post and I just have to mention the following:
It’s true that Satmar has many chumros and they may appear extreme at times. And I am the first to admit that I could never live up to their standards-it would just be too much. BUT-Make no mistake about it: In the Satmar community, every Yid-regardless of his Yarmulke size-will always find a caring friend and a generous hand. The men and women in that community have the biggest, most selfless hearts.February 15, 2012 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #868657hershiMember
Very well put, Great Bear.February 15, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #868658I can only tryMember
1) I believe every single positive statement made by posters here about their own communities.
3) There is no such thing as a misnagid nowadays.
4) I have davened at shuls across the spectrum and I have never felt hostility or unwelcomeness because of who I am or what I look like.
For shame!February 15, 2012 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #868659
One of my biggest regrets is that I have yet to visit KJ; as an admirer of Reb Yoilish, at the very least I should visit his kever.
It’s just an NYC thing for me – when I am there I forget that NYC is part of a state and a country.
I have spent a lifetime total of 16 hours in Miami, three hours in Monsey (completely forgot that the Ribnitzer ZYA is buried there) and about four hours in Cedarhurst :).February 15, 2012 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #868660
3) There is no such thing as a misnagid nowadays.
(not really, but Chassidim now aren’t really Chassidim the way they used to be, so there is no need to be Misnaged against them).February 15, 2012 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #868661rr6527Member
Ok, hands up. Who exactly has read the WHOLE of Ms. Feldman’s book? I don’t mean just snippets, or reviews…who has actually read the WHOLE book?February 15, 2012 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #868662SARALEE B.Member
She sure is exaggerating and distorting a bunch of stuff here. I never heard of someone not going to a docter cuz he believes in hashem. and if people truly blieve this-they are wrong according to to halacha!!
i feel bad for her for having a crazy life and knowing the wrong jewish people! but to publically make fun of them…February 15, 2012 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #868663zahavasdadParticipant
Are you also a fan of Reb Yoilish’s view on E’Y?
Which is diametrically opposed to the Lubavicher’s Rebbe’s positionFebruary 15, 2012 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #868664I can only tryMember
I’m not mekabel ?
OK, you pretty much answered your own question.
I’d also add that over time chassidus has gained acceptance with the non-chasidishe crowd.February 15, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #868665
I think that this discussion is going nowhere.
MODS…UM…?February 15, 2012 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #868666
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO READ THIS BOOK??February 15, 2012 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #868667
“For some reason, the Chassidish women “react strongly” to this, just like MO “react strongly” when someone disrespects Rav Kook. It’s only natural.”
I just gave you the reason. And here’s your measly $125. 🙁February 15, 2012 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #868668
I’ve reserved the book from my local library. I will not put money into her pocket.February 15, 2012 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #868669
ZDAD does it AGAIN! I really feel like I am arguing with a kindergartener here, or with an NK type who just wants attention.
Do you know what the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s REAL position on EY was? Do you really think he was a Zionist?
The difference was that the Lubavitcher Rebbe accepted reality and realized that there are Jews in EY whose lives are in danger if they are not defended properly, and that the best way to protect Jews was to have as much of EY as possible under very flawed Jewish rule. If he had believed that peace was possible by surrendering land, he would have advocated giving up even the Kosel. However, he understood the Arab mentality very well, and had the misleaders in EY listened to him, the world would be very different today. He did not believe in reishit tzmichat etc and argued very strongly against it. He also did not believe the medine had any kedusha at all – he sent people to bring kedusha to Jews in EY going back as far as when he made it clear that our yeshivas were to accept boys from Teiman and Morocco etc who were suffering at the hands of the tzioinim in the maabarot. (Rabbi Gershon Mendel Garelik, today the head shaliach in Italy and the rav hamachshir for a lot of our favorite wines was one of those Lubavitchers who did this kind of work in the shmad camps; he was practically a refugee himself at the time.)
The Satmarer Rov believed that the world would force the evacuation of EY or place it under UN rule with no harm to Jews. Wishful thinking and it is too bad that tzaddik goizer veHKBH mekayem did not come true in this case.
The only real disagreement was about Entebbe and whether it was a ness. By then, Reb Yoilish was very unwell and who knows what he really said or meant. That was about the time that the problems started, and once the Berach Moishe took control as best he could, the problems died down (proof that what we now know is true is true – the troublemakers were oisvorfen who needed a good potch.)
Reb Yoilish cried during the Six-Day War. The Lubavitcher Rebbe ZYA never uttered the word medine.February 15, 2012 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #868670
I have not read the Protocols of Elders of Zion, or Unchosen, or any Boteach book, or this book. (Sadly, I wasted time and money reading Naomi Ragen’s and Anne Roiphe’s garbage novels about frumkeit.)
However, I can smell dreck from afar without rubbing my nose in it.February 15, 2012 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #868671
“Reb Yoilish cried during the Six-Day War.”
Why?February 16, 2012 12:03 am at 12:03 am #868672rr6527Member
Ok, that’s what I thought! I read the whole book last night. I do NOT think she tells lies in her book (but I am not Satmar). The ONLY feeling I had after reading her book was that of pity, for her. She had an unpleasant childhood and ended up rebelling. Not exactly rare unfortunately. I think everyone should just lay off her – she’s had her two minutes of fame…let her just get on with her life.
There is certainly no reason for people here to start arguing about chasidus.February 16, 2012 12:42 am at 12:42 am #868673
MDG – actually I made a mistake. I meant to say that he stayed up and said tehillim all night for the soldiers and asked his Chasidim to do the same.February 16, 2012 1:31 am at 1:31 am #868674lesschumrasParticipant
lesschumras, how is it in other topics you get all righteous when folks criticize MO or YU. Yet here you are okay with criticism?
In any event, she criticized Judaism itself and its holy practices in a vile despicable untruthful manner. If someone criticized Rabbi Yoshe B. Soloveitchek and the way he practiced Judaism, would you be okay with that and now be writing that R. Soloveitchek doesn’t equal Torah
I don’t disagree with what you said. I just find it amusing how you and others are reacting when the shoe is on the other foot.February 16, 2012 4:20 am at 4:20 am #868675
so i went to her book release, got a tentative promise for an interview, bought the book and im half done. i agree with rr6527.
constantly she talks about feeling apart because of her parents. im glad i was right in my initial assessment, she is the product of bad childhood.February 16, 2012 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #868676
I just gave you the reason. And here’s your measly $125. 🙁
If you believe my fee is “measly”, I do accept tips. 🙂
I have no issues with you “reacting strongly” (for the reasons I said. It is expected).
As LessChumras said:
I don’t disagree with what you said. I just find it amusing how you and others are reacting when the shoe is on the other foot.February 16, 2012 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #868677
I also read the whole book last night. And because I am so familiar with the community she describes, it was really hard for me to read it.
It’s bad enough that the non-jews who read this will buy into her lies and give her the pity that she so manipulatively elicits from her reader. She carefully alternates between “poor helpless girl” and “I’m an iron woman” throughout her book, and to the uninformed reader she’s a heroine who deserves all the pity and respect you can spare.
But I would expect that the frum people who read the book to be able to see the deception and the distortion in it.February 16, 2012 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #868678yichusdikParticipant
I’ll probably surprise some here by weighing in on the side of Satmar and seeing this unfortunate young woman’s book as more of a publicity stunt and way to make a buck or two than a real cry for help about real problems in the community, as opposed to in her family.
Now, undoubtedly there are some truths in her book; undoubtedly there are some half truths and exaggerations; but what I see is familial dysfunction and the fear instilled in the woman at a young age by instability and a domineering grandfather. That could happen in any community, of any religion, race, or ethnicity.
I don’t agree with the Satmar shitoh on many things. In particular I am saddened by their perspective on Israel and Zionism. But though I am as far from Satmer as can be (My father used to say that Galitzia is worlds away from Hungary, never mind the map), I can recognize that there is much to be praised, and one example in particular stands out. As a woman, and as someone who now feels comfortable in the “outside” world, the writer would know that the chesed network created and run by Satmar women serving patients in hospitals around NYC is second to none and is exemplary in demonstrating ahavas chinom. She ignores it.
Let me be clear. There is legitimate room for criticism, some of it necessarily harsh, and truths to be spoken aloud about the Satmar community – as there is for the chabad, or litvish, other chassidish, or MO communities. All of us and our communities are far from perfect, and I do not believe that brushing problems under the carpet is a good idea for anyone. But doing what she did in the manner in which she did it served a personal agenda and nothing more, is more about personal crisis and personal anger than real philosophical challenges, and accomplishes little or nothing to address the real challenges we face.February 16, 2012 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #868679
Apparently, and Soliek, you’d know since you were there, the line to attend her reading went around the corner, and a lot of people had to be turned away. I wanted to go, but something came up that prevented me from doing so.
Soliek, I’d really be interested, since my prime concern is how this book is being hailed by the secular community; in what type of people attended. Were there any other frum people aside from you? Were there any questioners from the audience who took her to task for some of her, shall we say, exaggerations?February 16, 2012 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #868680
yeah i got the impression that she missed the point and glossed over what would really have been important: the dysfunction in her family and the way her near rape and family’s problems of mental illness and in general how stigma was so feared. It all gets something like a total of 4 pages throughout the 250 page book.February 16, 2012 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #868681
A Woman outside bklyn: oh i got there a half hour early so i managed to get a seat after standing around for 15 minutes. the crowd was actually mostly frei jews i would say…i eavesdropped. to non jews its a book displaying amazing courage, and to frei jews it was basically a soap box upon which to stand when criticizing the backwards unevolved monkeys that satmar jews apparently are. (that was a quote…i dont think of jews that way)February 16, 2012 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #868682DoswinMember
Just have her in mind three times a day, when davening vlamalshinim.February 16, 2012 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #868683WolfishMusingsParticipant
Just have her in mind three times a day, when davening vlamalshinim.
The WolfFebruary 16, 2012 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #868684Feif UnParticipant
Doswin (and other saying the same thing): I’ll have you in mind by Refaeinu.February 16, 2012 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #868685
“As LessChumras said:
I don’t disagree with what you said. I just find it amusing how you and others are reacting when the shoe is on the other foot.”
It’s not amusing at all when MO posters lose the debate and start analyzing our psyches instead of addressing our arguments or conceding their points.February 16, 2012 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #868686
“Just have her in mind three times a day, when davening vlamalshinim. “
Does she qualify as a Malshin? Does saying L”H make one a Malshin or does it need to be said to someone like a corrupt gov’t official who will do something bad?
I’d rather pray for her return. See Brachot 10a, where Bruriah told her husband to pray for the return, and not the demise, of wayward Jews. His prayers worked.February 16, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #868687
Just have her in mind three times a day, when davening vlamalshinim.
Have me in mind when saying “Al HaTzaddikim”, NOT by “V’al HaChassidim”, and certainly when saying “V’al Ziknei”! 🙂February 16, 2012 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #868688Feif UnParticipant
I’ll have her in mind when I say hashiveinu.February 16, 2012 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #868689
I messaged her on Facebook, inviting her for a Shabbos “in my chilled out community” after she gets back from her book tour.February 16, 2012 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #868690
They opened a blog for all the people against what she’s done. There are some neighbors of hers who are taking her to task. They claim she moved out of Brooklyn earlier in her marraige and lived in Airmont New York, where no one shoved anything down her throat. She was able to do as she wished, and she still went off. Read it you might be suprised to hear other opinions….February 16, 2012 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #868691
yep. i exchanged contact info with her publicicst/agent/manager dude thingy.
also i made an awesome contact there…if he pans out. some guy overheard me talking about my book with the publicist/agent/manager dude thingy and told me hes a psychiatrist and that hed review and offer commentary on my book, that he knows publishers he could hook me up with once im ready, and thyat he knows the EIC of Ami and has some pull…soliekyeaFebruary 16, 2012 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #868692zahavasdadParticipant
If you read her story, LASHON HAROH is a big part of the story .
She had a condition that it seemed the entire community (or so she thought) spoke about itFebruary 16, 2012 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #868693ZeesKiteParticipant
I don’t think it’s possible for her to do t’shuva so long as her filth is readily available. Besides what it says about the kapara for one who makes a chilul HaShem. Multiply that by how many viewers she had, will have. In her filth. On the web. In the tabloids.
Hashiveinu we say for s*x abusers, child abuser, face bleachers, spitters etc. Evaders of the law, dina dmalchusa.February 16, 2012 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #868694Medium Size ShadchanMember
soliek, pardon me for being out of the loop, I must have missed your threads or posts. What is your book going to be about?February 16, 2012 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #868697
a mamin, I realize you can’t post a URL, but can you give me a clue to that blog?February 16, 2012 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #868698
why was my post not allowed? i simply wrote what my book is about…February 16, 2012 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #868699
Deborah Feldman Exposed.It really gives you another picture…
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