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If you need help the Kohen Gadol’s Avoda on Yom Kippur or the spelling of each word in Pesukim regarding the Arba Minim, you may ask my 12 year old daughter! Or as per 7th grade teacher, don’t. My daughter studied the entire sukkos vacation for a Yahadus test on the entire Yom Kipper Avoda, Hilchos Shofar, 4-Minim, Shiurim of Sukkah. 17 pages long!!!
WWWWWWWWW HHHHHHHHHHHHHH YYYYYYYYYYYYYY ??????????????
Why are girls schools (bklyn, Lkwd, Monsey, etc) teaching and testing subjects that have no shaichos to them? The boys schools don’t even teach it. If the school runs out of subjects to fill their curriculum here’s a suggestion – computers, word, excel, baking, cooking, communications, chesed. My daughter is sick to her stomach because she feels she did not do well on the test and it will impede on her average.
Can someone explain the necessary stress?
“Can someone explain the necessary stress?”
Sure. Take your pick:
Seminary
Shidduchich
And your attempt to upset this imbalance by stating “boys don’t learn this stuff” is contrary to the “system” we have put in place.
Don’t question it. Its just the way it needs to be.
Oh, and one more thing. Once your daughter has mastered all this, and graduated into a promising carrear, you /she can have the privilige of supporting one of our undereducated boys.
Again, not to be questioned. It just needs to be this way.
Feel better?
More work = better schools = more students = more money for school owners.
Simple Algebra.
But seriously, can she answer if the Avodah was done with someone in the Heichal, does it have to be redone or not?
🙂
if she’s 12 this is just the beginning … just wait for high school and seminary! just pointing out a fact … not saying I disagree that its crazy!
I cannot explain it because I’m trying to figure it out to!!!
I began a similar thread a while ago, and the material girls learn in school STILL puzzles me. You can view the thread here:
Hatzlochah!
Mtydhd, you are absolutely correct.
Girls should be quizzed after yom tov on how well their potato kugel, cholent, and chicken came out. And how well they cleaned and scrubbed and polished the floors, windows, bathrooms and silver.
Shaychus…
It is up to the parent to do research into what school to send their daughters. If the school is very into learning things by heart (memorizing) and learning things that you don’t think is needed, don’t send there. let the buyer beware.
Our schools curriculum has been wack for years already.There’s no need for all this.Ive been saying ti for years,Kids dont need to be learning Babva metzie in 5th grade…teach them Berachos,stories,about tzaddikim,keep them busy and frum enough until they are older and really want it..or else they go wild.
3 Reasons;
Competition, Competition, Competition.
3 Questions to ask your school;
1) Has anyone monitored how many hours per day/week (assuming she does all thats assigned) your daughter studies, prepares and is busy with school work, including studying on shabbos? And add that to regular school day/week. OVER 50-60 hours per week!
2) what percentage of girls require no outside assistance. That includes resource room, assisted homework room, tutoring of any kind. If its more than 25%, of all girls, that means less than 70-75% of the school is keeeping up! whats wrong with this picture?
3) who is the poisek of your school, (other than the principal who is nogaia bedovor,) that approves this. assuming the board actually was brave /forthright enough to be frank with the rov and advise him.
I CHALLENGE ANY PARENT TO FIND OUT AND ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.
PS did you know that rabbi Matisuhu Solomon wrote in his own sefer, that giving homework is wrong!! (anyone want the page number, tell me) Why arent we following Daas Torah?
WHO DARES TO ANSWER.
It is a system in place because we no longer marry our daughters off at 13 and 14. They are thus kept busier than busy with an artificial hechrech to keep them from “straying” into troublesome activities. When they get to kallah class, they can relax some.
OP, in our long history there were some notable woman roshei yeshiva. I would not try that today though.
It is a system in place because we no longer marry our daughters off at 13 and 14. They are thus kept busier than busy with an artificial hechrech to keep them from “straying” into troublesome activities. When they get to kallah class, they can relax some.
OP, in our long history there were some notable woman roshei yeshiva. I would not try that today though.
Rebbetzin David wrote much of the Pachad Yitzchok.
The SMA(drisha,prisha) wife helped with two halachos(hakdama l’drisha).
Doesn’t the SMA also say that his mother was his Rav Muvhak?
As far as I know his rebbeim were the Rama and Marshal.
I’m sure they were. But he mentions somewhere that his mother taught him everything when he was young.
Very interesting,if you find a mekor that would nice.
Never seen it inside. I’ve only heard that Ba’al Peh. I’ll look for it though.
If I were to open a yeshiva I would teach much more musar, way more than the token 15 minutes in the morning. I would teach pirush hameelim-I think it’s especially important before Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur that boys understand what one is asking from Hashem. you could klapp a hundred Al Cheits and not understand a single one. And also I would teach the appropriate halochos per each Yom Tov. I would make sure that at least once a week there would be time dedicated to chessed-why can’t boys do some packing or delivering of tomchei Shabbos, or why not visit a liitle in the nursing homes or even do a little kiruv? There would definitely have to be some time each day, or at least a few times a week for gym. Most boys are in yeshiva between 10-12 hours per day. There’s still plenty of time for gemarrah and English studies, and why not slow down and delve a little deeper. What’s the big rush? Why not teach the boys about our gedolim of yesteryear, too?
Girls and boys both should be taught that Torah is middos. Girls should be taught how to teach middos to their future husbands and children !
no! please dont train girls to teach ttheir spouse middos. they should teach THEMSELVES middos!
same thing applies to Boys, dont think that you can be Mechanach your spouse, it aint gonna happen.
Good point, but you can’t count on girls OR boys to teach themselves middos. If the parents don’t display good middos, and the schools don’t teach good middos, and the rabbeim don’t talk about the importance of good middos, we can’t expect young people to grow up with good middos.
1st timer, very nice idea. I would add that there should be some sort of program in the yeshiva that gives a particular role of responsibility to each student over a group of students, or at least over one other student. We already have positions such as a dorm counselor, kitchen helper, waiter, etc. I think it would be very beneficial for EVERY student to have a role of responsibility, which helps him focus on not only looking after himself (which, in my opinion, is what many yeshiva boys only do), but rather be aware of the needs of other people. That can help greatly in marriage.
Regarding the original point made on this thread, I agree with it. And I’m sure that many wives, because of this system, know Tanach better than their husbands. But what’s the point of that?
My sisters went to a school that had a “secondary” program, meaning, for the students that were failing academically, there was a program consisting of heavy emphasis on arts and crafts, dance, drama, cooking, etc. that the students took part in, and their final grades were modified to passing grades as long as they took part in these activities. I think that is a wonderful idea.
Back to the original question, it is a little sickening. My 8th grade daughter is doing what I was expected to do in High School! I don’t live in Brooklyn so school options are limited. But I have heard that graduates from this school are much hailed by whatever High Schools they do go to. All I have to say is if my easy-A student is spendin 2.5 hours a night on homework, what are the hard-to-get-C students doing??? I wish it was acceptable to “track” students. But of course thats taboo.
The boys also, some boys can handle Bava Mezia in 5th grade, but many can’t. And of course its taboo to have a gemara class, and a non-gemara class because how are the “dumb” boys going to get into a good Mesivta. Makes me want to choke.
And mind you, NONE of this focuses on the non-essentials called middos.
IMO (and humble one at that), both girls AND boys should be taught the basics of cooking, sewing (yes, even the boys), and housecare, not to mention how to draw up a realistic budget and stick to it. All our schools are remiss in emphasizing these skills, which are necessary at some point or other. A boy should know how to sew a button on his shirt and how to put a chicken in the oven. His wife will not always be available to do so for him, if he is married, and his mom may not be, either, if he is not.
Just as girls are now expected to be the breadwinners in so many cases, so too should the boys be expected to pick up some of the household slack for their wives. I’m jus’ sayin’…
Middle path, you are right. I thought it would be a great idea to have mesivta boys doing some kriah with elementary kids-I think both would gain from this type of thing. While I’m at it, why not start teaching skills to mesivta age boys, a little electrical, plumbing, accounting….. Why can’t we take the emphasis off of marks and start teaching real every day important subjects. American history is nice to know, but ask the boys Jewish history, do they know our heritage?
In the yeshiva system there are sometimes(if lucky) rebbeim who veer away from the system and teach fundamentals of Judaism. They teach how the mesora works, who the Tur was what the shulchan aruch is how it was compiled. They will teach some halacha inside. Its rare, but usually these are the rebbeim everyone likes.
You’re all welcomed to try a chassidish school. My daughter has a cooking class, a baking class and a sewing once a week.
“But seriously, can she answer if the Avodah was done with someone in the Heichal, does it have to be redone or not?”
But seriously, how many yeshiva bochrim can answer this question? To answer this question, you need to ask a working stiff balabos who learns daf yomi every day.
My working/learning son-in-law asks his Propect Park Yeshiva wife to paskin his shailos, and she is always right on target.
cherrybim: What shailos are you referring to?
Well not Avodah/Heichal shailos.
The stress that the girls are under is rediculous and totally unnecessary. If the schools would really give them a good time once in a while to reward them for all their hard work, I can maybe hear it.
Personally I think it’s this abnormal and extra unwarranted stress that’s pushing many (many, many) of our precious girls to the edge and OTD.
If our children are not happy, they’ll gravitate to something that makes them happy and makes them feel good. Like water, they’ll follow the path of least resistance.
Girls (even more so than boys) need to be constantly made feel good about themselves and about anything they do. If not, the trouble starts . . .
Maybe the answer is “they have to teach it to someone”. Just kidding. You bring up a very good question and one that should be brought up to Torah Umesorah. Why are you stressing our girls out so much? Why are you bearing down on them so hard and teaching them things that boys never learn and it is NOT their job to know.
The girls are trained to be smarter and smarter and then the boys they date can’t hold an intelligent conversation with them. Every year they come up with more and more ideas of what to teach the girls. Every single year they raise the bar on the girls. Every single school tries to outdo the next. They try to outsmart, outfrum and outbuild each other to the detriment of the kids. They just refuse to allow kids to be kids.
I’m with Aries on this one.
Hey, not ALL girls hate it…we like all the Torah we can get. 🙂
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