Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky and the modern State of Israel
- This topic has 64 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 1 day, 4 hours ago by yankel berel.
-
AuthorPosts
-
May 30, 2025 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2405170SQUARE_ROOTParticipant
from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:“He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister] Rabin…
that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”May 30, 2025 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2405171SQUARE_ROOTParticipantfrom the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:“He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister] Rabin …
that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”May 30, 2025 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2405172SQUARE_ROOTParticipantfrom from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 15, page 356:“Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer responded at length.
He pointed out that the opposition to religious umbrella groups
did not preclude Jews joining together on issues as
Israel’s security or combating anti-Semitism.”May 31, 2025 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #2405363SQUARE_ROOTParticipantfrom the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:“He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister] Rabin…
that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This is the 1st quote of 4, which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!
__________________________________________
from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 15, page 356:“Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer responded at length.
He pointed out that the opposition to religious umbrella groups
did not preclude Jews joining together on issues as
Israel’s security or combating anti-Semitism.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This is the 2nd quote which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!
__________________________________________
from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 545:“Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer’s summary of a confidential
June 17, 1970 [CE] meeting with Israel’s
Ambassador to Washington Yitzchak Rabin
reflects his lifelong approach to Israel’s security needs.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This is the 3rd quote which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!
__________________________________________
from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 546:The offer of political support Rabbi Sherer made
to Yitzchak Rabin was one he would repeat
on many occasions to Israeli leaders.In a 1981 [CE] letter to Israeli Ambassador Ephraim Efron,
for instance, he described Agudath Israel’s grassroots
constituency as a “reservoir of manpower which is
totally committed to the safety and security of Israel.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This is the 4th quote which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!June 25, 2025 10:48 am at 10:48 am #2417735SQUARE_ROOTParticipantAlways_Ask_Questions said this in
the YWN Coffee Room on 2025 March 25,
in a discussion titled “Three Oaths essay
from Rabbi Avraham Rivlin of Kerem B’Yavneh”:Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky writes in his
Emes Le-Ya’akov Al Ha-Torah (Exodus 12:2 n. 17):It is incumbent on us to understand that the establishment of
the state of Israel in our day, after the great destruction and
despair that overtook the remnant, and given the desperate
and destroyed status of Russian Jewry, God caused the
establishment of the state of Israel in order to strengthen
the connection to Judaism and to sustain
the link between the Jews in exile and the Jewish nation.__________________________________________
Always_Ask_Questions said this in
the YWN Coffee Room on 2025 March 25,
in a discussion titled “Three Oaths essay
from Rabbi Avraham Rivlin of Kerem B’Yavneh”:Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler has two relevant letters,
from 1948 [CE] and 1949 [CE], that were published
in Mikhtav Me-Eliyahu, volume 3 pages 349 to 353.He writes that he is hesitant to call the establishment of
the state of Israel and the ensuing military victory the
beginning of the Redemption, but he considers it a possibility
(i.e. a Hopeful Zionist position).He also has harsh words for anyone who refuses
to see God’s miraculous intervention in this,
considering them heretics who reject Divine Providence.June 29, 2025 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2419356yankel berelParticipantReminder
A] the following is somejew’s “psak” :
this is somejews language , copied and pasted :
In (very) short, that means that if goyim – chas v’shulem – threaten masses of jews, our kosher responses are: make peace, give gifts, run away, and pray to G-d. What we are not allowed to do is organize an army and physically fight the enemy.
[somejew]
——-
B] the following is maran habet yosefs psak in his halacha sefer the shulchan aruch :
halacha mandates , violating Shabbos to physically fight against an enemy that attempts to seize even ‘kash vateven’ —since it begins with kash and ends with lives (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim, siman 329).
Will repeat again :
mandates to …. physically fight against an enemy.
—
This is the question mr somejew –
How do you fit A with B ?
.
.June 30, 2025 9:23 am at 9:23 am #2419670ardParticipantum if somejews source is yaakov then yaakov also prepared for war (also see the entire tanach where jews fight back, WHEN directed by daas torah)
June 30, 2025 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #2420048Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantard> where jews fight back, WHEN directed by daas torah
Who directed Yiftach? People who rejected him earlier. The only daas Torah here seems to be in the midrash that when his dedicated object ended up being his daughter, Yiftach and Pinchas refused to go to each other, expecting the other to make the first move. Ben Gurion at least went to see Chazon Ish.
July 7, 2025 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #2422163none2.0ParticipantExile. Is in the mind. We were cast into exile to wander in confusion and chains.
July 7, 2025 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #2422356somejewiknowParticipant@ard
i brought my source (the Chofetz Chaim) in the thread here titled “Neturei Karta Condemned by Jews on Youtube”July 16, 2025 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #2426202yankel berelParticipantSeems like somejew went missing
he did not want to answer a very simple question
how do you fit a with b
.July 17, 2025 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #2426251HaKatanParticipantAAQ:
You’re comparing Yiftach and Pinchas to the Chazon Ish and liHavdil elef alfai havdalos, the heretic David Green? Green went to him because he felt it would be politically beneficial to do so, of course, not because he was in the slightest interested in daas Torah.
Also, you’re stating that, by Yiftach, the only “daas Torah” was after the war, not on his appointment as leader and general before the war?July 17, 2025 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #2426253HaKatanParticipantSquare_Root:
More copy/paste Zionism already debunked elsewhere on these boards.yankel berel:
This isn’t a question. Both can be true, of course. If you are unable to run away, then you have no choice but to fight. But, of course, the preference is to run away, not to fight. Also, this is all anyways irrelevant to Zionism and its army, because that army is an army of shmad and all three of the gimmel chamuros. So, even if there were a need to fight, then that would still not even remotely permit anyone to be shmaded in the Zionist army.ard:
The CC quotes the Ramban there, if memory serves, that the prep for “war” that Yaakov did was to prepare to run away.July 17, 2025 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #2426678Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipanthakatan > you’re stating that, by Yiftach, the only “daas Torah” was after the war, not on his appointment as leader and general before the war?
interesting question. From peshat, it seems that same people who previously mistreated Yiftach, now called for his help. I don’t know whether that group consulted daas Torah. Do you have any meforshim on this topic?
July 18, 2025 10:07 am at 10:07 am #2426709Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantKatan> the preference is to run away, not to fight.
This is exactly what Zionists did. So many Jews stayed in Europe fighting for “better future” against the Czar and everyone else – and did not survive. Zionists wisely escaped the continent on fire and enables survival of millions of Yidden. To what degree they did it with ruach hakodesh, or with wrong intentions that Hashem turned around to good – we can argue about. The “better” run away options were to run to America (that Rabbis warned against) or Uganda that was voted down.
July 18, 2025 10:08 am at 10:08 am #2426733yankel berelParticipant@katan .
Thanks for this clarification.
This is very important.
here katan broke ranks with somejew.
if we are to take katan at face value [no reason not to]
katan agrees here that pikuach nefesh supersedes any understanding of the three oaths
so [even if] organizing an army to defend the yoshvei EY would contravene the oaths , nevertheless bimkom pikuach nefesh , this is mandated
katan argues that the IDF is not a good fit, because its involvement with the three hamurot.
meaning avoda zara giluy arayot and shfihut damim.
—
the Q is now . the mere fact that the IDF is osek in those three , is that enough to stop a frum jew’s involvement in the IDF
or do we need to consider the candidate, the frum jew’s own participation in the three hamurot ?
.meaning : if the frum jew himself will not participate in the three hamurot , but other people within that army are,
is that ground to prohibit the frum jew’s participation in the IDF to save lives ?
.
. -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.