Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky and the modern State of Israel

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  • #2405170
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:

    “He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister] Rabin…
    that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
    to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”

    #2405171
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:

    “He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister] Rabin …
    that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
    to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”

    #2405172
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 15, page 356:

    “Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer responded at length.
    He pointed out that the opposition to religious umbrella groups
    did not preclude Jews joining together on issues as
    Israel’s security or combating anti-Semitism.”

    #2405363
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 13, page 321:

    “He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] assured [Prime Minister] Rabin…
    that he could always count on Agudath Israel of America
    to be strongly supportive of Israel’s security needs.”

    PERSONAL COMMENT:
    This is the 1st quote of 4, which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
    was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
    was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!
    __________________________________________
    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 15, page 356:

    “Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer responded at length.
    He pointed out that the opposition to religious umbrella groups
    did not preclude Jews joining together on issues as
    Israel’s security or combating anti-Semitism.”

    PERSONAL COMMENT:
    This is the 2nd quote which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
    was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
    was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!
    __________________________________________
    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 545:

    “Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer’s summary of a confidential
    June 17, 1970 [CE] meeting with Israel’s
    Ambassador to Washington Yitzchak Rabin
    reflects his lifelong approach to Israel’s security needs.”

    PERSONAL COMMENT:
    This is the 3rd quote which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
    was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
    was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!
    __________________________________________
    from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
    of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 546:

    The offer of political support Rabbi Sherer made
    to Yitzchak Rabin was one he would repeat
    on many occasions to Israeli leaders.

    In a 1981 [CE] letter to Israeli Ambassador Ephraim Efron,
    for instance, he described Agudath Israel’s grassroots
    constituency as a “reservoir of manpower which is
    totally committed to the safety and security of Israel.”

    PERSONAL COMMENT:
    This is the 4th quote which proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
    was deeply committed to Israel’s security, even though Israel
    was a Secular Zionist state with Secular Zionist leaders!

    #2417735
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Always_Ask_Questions said this in
    the YWN Coffee Room on 2025 March 25,
    in a discussion titled “Three Oaths essay
    from Rabbi Avraham Rivlin of Kerem B’Yavneh
    ”:

    Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky writes in his
    Emes Le-Ya’akov Al Ha-Torah (Exodus 12:2 n. 17):

    It is incumbent on us to understand that the establishment of
    the state of Israel in our day, after the great destruction and
    despair that overtook the remnant, and given the desperate
    and destroyed status of Russian Jewry, God caused the
    establishment of the state of Israel in order to strengthen
    the connection to Judaism and to sustain
    the link between the Jews in exile and the Jewish nation.

    __________________________________________

    Always_Ask_Questions said this in
    the YWN Coffee Room on 2025 March 25,
    in a discussion titled “Three Oaths essay
    from Rabbi Avraham Rivlin of Kerem B’Yavneh
    ”:

    Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler has two relevant letters,
    from 1948 [CE] and 1949 [CE], that were published
    in Mikhtav Me-Eliyahu, volume 3 pages 349 to 353.

    He writes that he is hesitant to call the establishment of
    the state of Israel and the ensuing military victory the
    beginning of the Redemption, but he considers it a possibility
    (i.e. a Hopeful Zionist position).

    He also has harsh words for anyone who refuses
    to see God’s miraculous intervention in this,
    considering them heretics who reject Divine Providence.

    #2419356
    yankel berel
    Participant

    Reminder

    A] the following is somejew’s “psak” :

    this is somejews language , copied and pasted :

    In (very) short, that means that if goyim – chas v’shulem – threaten masses of jews, our kosher responses are: make peace, give gifts, run away, and pray to G-d. What we are not allowed to do is organize an army and physically fight the enemy.

    [somejew]

    ——-

    B] the following is maran habet yosefs psak in his halacha sefer the shulchan aruch :

    halacha mandates , violating Shabbos to physically fight against an enemy that attempts to seize even ‘kash vateven’ —since it begins with kash and ends with lives (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim, siman 329).

    Will repeat again :

    mandates to …. physically fight against an enemy.

    This is the question mr somejew –

    How do you fit A with B ?
    .
    .

    #2419670
    ard
    Participant

    um if somejews source is yaakov then yaakov also prepared for war (also see the entire tanach where jews fight back, WHEN directed by daas torah)

    #2420048

    ard> where jews fight back, WHEN directed by daas torah

    Who directed Yiftach? People who rejected him earlier. The only daas Torah here seems to be in the midrash that when his dedicated object ended up being his daughter, Yiftach and Pinchas refused to go to each other, expecting the other to make the first move. Ben Gurion at least went to see Chazon Ish.

    #2422163
    none2.0
    Participant

    Exile. Is in the mind. We were cast into exile to wander in confusion and chains.

    #2422356
    somejewiknow
    Participant

    @ard
    i brought my source (the Chofetz Chaim) in the thread here titled “Neturei Karta Condemned by Jews on Youtube”

    #2426202
    yankel berel
    Participant

    Seems like somejew went missing

    he did not want to answer a very simple question

    how do you fit a with b
    .

    #2426251
    HaKatan
    Participant

    AAQ:
    You’re comparing Yiftach and Pinchas to the Chazon Ish and liHavdil elef alfai havdalos, the heretic David Green? Green went to him because he felt it would be politically beneficial to do so, of course, not because he was in the slightest interested in daas Torah.
    Also, you’re stating that, by Yiftach, the only “daas Torah” was after the war, not on his appointment as leader and general before the war?

    #2426253
    HaKatan
    Participant

    Square_Root:
    More copy/paste Zionism already debunked elsewhere on these boards.

    yankel berel:
    This isn’t a question. Both can be true, of course. If you are unable to run away, then you have no choice but to fight. But, of course, the preference is to run away, not to fight. Also, this is all anyways irrelevant to Zionism and its army, because that army is an army of shmad and all three of the gimmel chamuros. So, even if there were a need to fight, then that would still not even remotely permit anyone to be shmaded in the Zionist army.

    ard:
    The CC quotes the Ramban there, if memory serves, that the prep for “war” that Yaakov did was to prepare to run away.

    #2426678

    hakatan > you’re stating that, by Yiftach, the only “daas Torah” was after the war, not on his appointment as leader and general before the war?

    interesting question. From peshat, it seems that same people who previously mistreated Yiftach, now called for his help. I don’t know whether that group consulted daas Torah. Do you have any meforshim on this topic?

    #2426709

    Katan> the preference is to run away, not to fight.

    This is exactly what Zionists did. So many Jews stayed in Europe fighting for “better future” against the Czar and everyone else – and did not survive. Zionists wisely escaped the continent on fire and enables survival of millions of Yidden. To what degree they did it with ruach hakodesh, or with wrong intentions that Hashem turned around to good – we can argue about. The “better” run away options were to run to America (that Rabbis warned against) or Uganda that was voted down.

    #2426733
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @katan .

    Thanks for this clarification.

    This is very important.

    here katan broke ranks with somejew.

    if we are to take katan at face value [no reason not to]

    katan agrees here that pikuach nefesh supersedes any understanding of the three oaths

    so [even if] organizing an army to defend the yoshvei EY would contravene the oaths , nevertheless bimkom pikuach nefesh , this is mandated

    katan argues that the IDF is not a good fit, because its involvement with the three hamurot.

    meaning avoda zara giluy arayot and shfihut damim.

    the Q is now . the mere fact that the IDF is osek in those three , is that enough to stop a frum jew’s involvement in the IDF

    or do we need to consider the candidate, the frum jew’s own participation in the three hamurot ?
    .

    meaning : if the frum jew himself will not participate in the three hamurot , but other people within that army are,

    is that ground to prohibit the frum jew’s participation in the IDF to save lives ?
    .
    .

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