November 19, 2008 12:41 am at 12:41 am #588693
have any random questions about absolutly nothing that u dont know who to ask or dont want to ask anyone bec you will feel stupid not knowing? post them here…..and as they say-the rest is historyNovember 19, 2008 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1077643
have any random questions about absolutly nothing that u dont know who to ask or dont want to ask anyone bec you will feel stupid not knowing? post them here…..
YES, in fact!
What does “dont have internet” mean?November 19, 2008 1:49 am at 1:49 am #1077644JewessMember
Yeah… Lots of em…
What was the dead sea like before it got ill?
How does a Nun retire? Does she instantly not believe at sixty-five,
and start partying?
If we have nightmares, what do horses have?
If you are open-minded, would your brains fall out?
Where are preparations A to G?
Why is it hard to understand how a cemetery can raise its burial charges
and blame it on the cost of living?
Why are carrots more orange than oranges?
Why didn’t Noah swat those two mosquitos?November 19, 2008 2:26 am at 2:26 am #1077645
I’m not sure if this question would go under this category but one thing is for sure: I feel absolutely stupid and embarrassed asking anyone I know…. as obviously, something must be wrong with me (and of course, my entire family as well) for having such a problem in the first place.
The truth is, despite my embarrassment I have asked several Rabbonim …. but haven’t yet gotten an answer. My son (age 17) sits at home day after day for LACK OF A YESHIVA TO GO TO!!!! Maybe somebody out there can give me some suggestions.
We are looking for a combination litvish/chassidish yeshiva. More on the litvish side… but with chassidish levush (even if it’s the minority… he shouldn’t be different from everyone) and preferably Yiddish speaking.
Unfortunately he is only a “B” student. Too weak for Novominsk (Boro Park) or Me’or Yitzchok (Monsey) or Tal Torah (Flatbush). Yeshivas seem to be geared to either top “A” students, or, lehefech… kids that need to be saved from the streets. But there doesn’t seem to be anything for the good kids who are caught in the middle.
He is a GOOD boy. Not a troublemaker at all. In the entire tri-state area… we haven’t found even ONE yeshiva. We’ve also looked in Israel. Slabodka and Amalah shel Torah (Beit Shemesh) are too high a level. The Mir is so big that he’d probably get lost there. But we really do prefer to keep him in the States. Preferably a small, warm heimishe place.
Any suggestions???November 19, 2008 2:41 am at 2:41 am #1077646
Queen: What about Veretzky (Flatbush) or Ch’san Sofer (Boro Park)?November 19, 2008 2:50 am at 2:50 am #1077647
Veretzky might be a possibility. I’ll look into it. I’ve heard that Ch’san Sofer is on too high a level. But maybe not. I’ll look into that again, as well.
Yashar Koach!!!!! Bli neder… I’ll keep you posted as to the outcome of my inquiries.November 19, 2008 2:53 am at 2:53 am #1077648
Queen: or Stolin (more on the chasidish side, but mixed)November 19, 2008 4:03 am at 4:03 am #1077649
Joseph: Stolin is it’s own chassidus. A bit too different for him. But you’ve certainly got the right idea.November 19, 2008 4:08 am at 4:08 am #1077650
Queen: Maybe take a look at it after you researched the others. Its a mix with litvish too (many old-time Chaim Berliners sent there.)
I’m not intimately familiar with them, but perhaps look into Yeshiva of Bensonhurst and Yeshiva Tiferes Elimelech as well.November 19, 2008 5:08 am at 5:08 am #1077651I can only tryMember
The Queen of Persia-
Is Torah Vodas an option?
I don’t think the high school learns in Yiddish, but I remember it as being chasidish / litvish.
FYI in the non-chasidishe yeshivos I went to, by the time boys are 17 they are usually accepting of those with different levush and minhagim, and don’t pick on or ostracize them.
I can empathize with you that it’s not easy – I wish you and your son much hatzlocha.
Tizku lemitzvos.November 19, 2008 5:51 am at 5:51 am #1077652
I agree with ICOT, Torah Vodas is well-worth considering.
One other Yeshiva that comes to mind is The Cheder (near McDonald Ave.)November 19, 2008 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1077653notpashutMember
There is a yeshiva on rechov sorotzkin in yerushalayim similar to what you are describing but I don’t know the name offhand.
It’s where Lakewood East used to be if I’m not mistaken.November 19, 2008 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1077654
Chasam Sofer sounds like a good choice, but by age 17 maybe he is looking for a post high school yeshiva? Although I think they go a few years past high school. My brothers were there for elementary school and left for high school because they did need more of a demanding high school so it sounds good for your son.
It is sad that yeshivas gear themselves for the “top” bachurim and leave the weaker students to the dogs. I remember in high school I felt that a lot of teachers aimed their lessons at the top 10% of the class and the rest of us would have to try to keep up.
I feel that teachers should gear their lessons to the average students. The weak students should be provided with modification if necessary and the gifted students could be given extra to be stimulated. It sounds simpler than it is. I know it’s not. But who says the weaker students aren’t worth enough to spend extra time to make it work for everyone?November 19, 2008 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1077655noitallmrParticipant
Is a gray suit on a week-day Bal-Habatish???November 19, 2008 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1077656smartcookieMember
QUEEN- Please, do your research immediately and just place him in whatever sounds best to you, even if it’s not 100% what you wanted.It’s not healthy for anyone, especially a young boy to sit home all day. It’s not good for his sanity, and not too great for his self esteem either. Please resolve the matter immediately. Im very worried for him. He needs structure and schedule.November 19, 2008 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1077657hockerinbklynMember
V’yelipol in FlatbushNovember 19, 2008 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1077658
We’re doing as much research as possile and as quickly as we can. But sometimes it takes time for people to get back to us. You’d be surprised how many brick walls we’ve run up against just trying to get our foot in the door to speak to the Rosh Yeshiva, or the person in charge of accepting new boys. Hockerinbklyn: V’elipol is also on the list. Thank you. And thank you to “I can only try” as well as the rest of you for your kind brachos and helpful ideas. Let me clarify that we are looing for Yeshiva Gedola (not mesivta). And if anyone knows…. what’s the difference between Chasam Sofer and Chasan Sofer?November 19, 2008 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #1077659
The Queen of Persia
I think there is only one, chasan sofer, I think i wrote it wrong with the “m” Anyway it’s located on 19th and 51st I think.November 19, 2008 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1077660
Queen: She likely meant Ch’san Sofer. The only Chasam Sofer I know of, is in Eretz Yisroel.November 19, 2008 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #1077661
Right! Ch’san Sofer sounds right!!November 19, 2008 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1077662eli levParticipant
i think its called derech hamelech
what about shaar yashuv in f.rockaway. people where “long” on shabbos.
also in lkwd n.j. there might be a yeshiva thet fits .dont know name.November 19, 2008 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1077663eli levParticipant
wear “long”November 19, 2008 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1077664I can only tryMember
The Queen of Persia-
Yeshiva Derech Chaim in Boro Park is a beis medrash that generally accepts good kids, even if they’re not top learners.
I do think all learning is done in English, though.
There are a couple of mesivtas in Flatbush that cater to boys who might be shvach learners or non-mainstream. I think Rabbi Rafael Walerstein and Rabbi Friedman (don’t remember his first name, but his yeshiva is on East 15th St. between J&K) are the ones who run the yeshivos. They may have some Beis Medrash ideas, since I would imagine some of their boys go on to learn full-time.
In my days there were several small “yeshivos” that were basically a rosh yeshiva/rebbe and maybe 10 boys learning in a shul. I don’t know of any specifically nowadays, but would it pay to look into something like that?November 20, 2008 1:04 am at 1:04 am #1077665
I have another question. Do you think a married woman should be on first name basis with a man (other than her husband of course).November 20, 2008 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1077666
shindy: Absolutely not.November 20, 2008 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1077667tzippiMember
Shindy (q. #2): surely someone will bring a source but the short answer – I don’t think so and I’m not comfortable with it. I might extend the first name to a few more family members, such as brothers- and sons in law, cousins, nephews, etc.November 20, 2008 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1077668
Shindy: I think it’s a matter of halacha. Not opinion. She should NOT be on first name basis with any man other than her husband (or brothers). And the same goes for men addressing women other than their wives. Mrs. so and so only.November 20, 2008 2:52 am at 2:52 am #1077669
The Queen of Persia, can you site your halachic source for this psak? thank you.November 20, 2008 3:12 am at 3:12 am #1077670shtark bochurMember
Shindy: did you check rav moshes teshuvaNovember 20, 2008 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1077671oomisParticipant
So what did women call men before there were surnames? Hey You???? When someone refers to me as Mrs. So and So, I feel very uncomfortable, especially when they are people with whom I am well-acquainted.November 20, 2008 6:38 am at 6:38 am #1077672yoshiMember
I posted this in another thread, but it got bypassed pretty quick by a heated debate between, well, the usual entertainment’s.
Here I go… again:
Wanted to hear your opinions, and why.
A skirt that passes the knees by 2 inches.
A skirt down to the ankles, with a slit that reaches 2 inches up before the knee.
Which one (or both?), do you think is less appropriate, and why?November 20, 2008 11:02 am at 11:02 am #1077673
A SLIT??? Nisht gut. Two inches below the knee? Well, if you sit down it will probably be too short. that’s the test.November 20, 2008 11:24 am at 11:24 am #1077674jewishfeminist02Member
When you say “before” the knee, do you mean above or below?November 20, 2008 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1077675Why Do I Even BotherMember
The skirt down to the ankles with a slit is much less appropriate because of the peek-a-boo effect… The other skirt should be fine unless its too tight that it wont cover your knees when seated…November 20, 2008 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1077676anonymous21Participant
the skirt with the slit is obviously less apropriate. a skirt with a slit is very noticeable and attracts a lot of attention. whereas a skirt that covers the knee doesnt.November 20, 2008 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1077677DebbyMember
“A skirt that passes the knees by 2 inches” try sitting down with that skirt- are you knees showing? I’m sure they are & according to the jewish law a ladys knees are not allowed to show at all.
“A skirt down to the ankles, with a slit that reaches 2 inches up before the knees” this will probably not show your knees when you sit but a long skirt with a nice slit is something that will defenitely catch peoples eyes & it may attract a mans eyes to your body . . . . i leave the rest to your understanding!!
So in my opinon they are really both unappropriate for a jewish female & heres a tip for a 2 inch skirt that just passes the knees. Just take the hem down & you should get at least another 1/2″-1 1/2″ inches which will make huge difference.November 20, 2008 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1077678jewishfeminist02Member
“according to the jewish law a ladys (sic) knees are not allowed to show at all.”
This is the problem I have with the common understanding of tznius. Nowhere does it say in the Torah that a woman is required to keep her knees, elbows, and collarbone covered. Obviously, men and women must both ensure that we dress modestly and do not attract attention to our bodies, but the standards that I see used today by some go so far beyond what is really necessary. I don’t see a problem with either skirt in the example above, and outside of certain communities where men are used to seeing women completely covered up, I don’t think the average man would get excited by the sight of an uncovered knee.November 20, 2008 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1077679smartcookieMember
A SKIRT WITH A SLIT IS ASSUR- PERIOD. It attracts much attention. That cant be denied.
Lenghth of skirt- to each individual, must make sure your knees are covered AT ALL TIMES- when standing, sitting, and when getting into a van….etc….November 20, 2008 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1077680squeakParticipant
There is no such thing as “more assur” and “less assur”. And certainly you can’t validate something that is worng based on something else which is wrong.
So, if you see the problem with both, then BOTH are inappropriate. Since both are inappropriate, which one is less than the other is irrelevant.
If you are asking the question, then at the very least you recognize that these are gray areas. If that is the case then why you are asking others to opine on which comes closer to crossing the line? You want to live in gray areas? Then draw your own lines. I can’t think of a situation where the question is relevant.November 20, 2008 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1077681tzippiMember
JFem, I don’t understand why knees are attractive myself. The most elegant length is just past mid calf, IMO, though I wear longer.
A lot depends on minhag hamakom. Generally, to feel comfortable anywhere, women should keep their collarbones, elbows and knees covered; I do feet too but there are communities that are more liberal and I don’t mean MO.
I think this a CYLOR issue, and everyone who considers him/herself observant should have a rav/rebbetzin/mashpia to ask questions of and bounce things off of.November 21, 2008 5:07 am at 5:07 am #1077682
NO SLITS!!!November 21, 2008 5:56 am at 5:56 am #1077683Will HillParticipant
jewish02, How many halachic sources would you like quoted verbatim that the knee must be covered at all times, and in all positions? Would Shulchan Orach suffice?November 21, 2008 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1077684Pashuteh YidMember
Slits being a problem has no basis in halacha. The requirement is that the knees and above be covered at all times. Most people feel that you need an extra few inches so that the knees are covered when sitting, as well. So any slit that ends 3 inches below the knees is totally fine, as the entire skirt could end there. Anyting you do below the 3 inch line is OK. You can have a slit, you can have elaborate cutouts, you can eliminate everything, you can cover down to your toes, you can embroider a picture of your dog, whatever you do is fine, as long as everything is covered above the 3 inch point.
We have enough halachas, why invent new ones?November 21, 2008 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1077685Why Do I Even BotherMember
Pashuteh Yid, I will let the others jump down your throat, but I do have to say that your comment is one of the dumbest, narrow minded comments I have read. Most people at least say that “My rav told me this” or “In my community this is acceptable”. You just went and paskened your (wrong) opinion…November 21, 2008 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #1077686oomisParticipant
The whole issue of slits is overblown in my opinion. if the slit is WELL below the knee, then the part of the leg that we are mechuyavos to cover, is already covered. Personally, I take more notice when I see women with seamed stockings, which IMMEDIATELY draws the attention of the eye to it. Normal people do not look at slit skirts and get excited. If the slit was up her thigh, THAT I could understand. But frankly, I think too much has been made of this issue, and there are more important tznius inyanim that people should concern themselves with. I’m with Pashuteh Yid on this one. Be happy the women are not wearing short skirts or pants. Slit skirts are more comfortable to sit and walk in. Period. If the rabbanim would suddenly say there is no problem with them, no one would give a second thought to it being untzniusdig. It is how we are conditioned to think by the rabbinical interpretation of some people, that causes us to think certain things are not proper. Not all people agree with this interpretation.
To answer the question of where it says in the Torah what we have to cover – that is in the Torah sheh b’al peh. It doesn’t say in the written Torah how to wear tefillin, or shecht an animal, either – – but Moshe Rabbeinu got the exact info from Hashem at Har Sinai and that mesorah was passed down from him to yehoshua, and so on down the ages until Rabbi Yehudah Hanasi codified the Mishnah out of fear that most people would forget the Oral Law. I would like to know where in the Gemarah it discusses slit skirts as assur, however. I am not being facetious, I really want to know. I might rethink my position.November 22, 2008 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #1077687eyesopenMember
The overall tsnius issue is not about the inches or the hem, but what makes a girl look like a bas melech. When a girl wants to purchase a skirt, she should be taught to think before she spends whether or not this item is going to give her an appearance that befits a refined girl. Would she be comfortable being seen in it before her menahel or menahelles? Tznius is a hard test for the girls who fight the pervasive culture which teaches them to be the opposite of refined and modest. It is a real struggle for even some of the finest girls. In the Torah, gemara and mishna there are few examples of tznius because up until WW1 most women were tznius. In Europe a non Jewish woman did not walk on the street in pants or with her head uncovered! There were no short skirts or slits. An ankle was considered a pritzus thing to reveal! So in the last 100 years there has been an unprecedented amount of decline in the overall morality of human beings, of values and of modesty. Does a Jew just go with the flow of society and blend in with the goy? Why would you want to? Remember that one reason we were saved in the first geula from Mitzrayim was because we did not change our dress. We stood out from the surrounding culture and did not follow their “styles”. Why has that changed today?November 23, 2008 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1077688Pashuteh YidMember
WhyDoIEvenBother, I did not make this up. Please check out Halichos Bas Yisroel where the topic of tznius is discussed according to the poskim. The MIshna Berura states that one must only cover from the knee and above. When did following the MB become unacceptable? The discussion is based on the words zroa and shok. I totally agree that one who follows the more stringent definition that the shok includes the calf could not permit a slit. But then one must require ankle length skirts. However, to say that we follow the MB’s opinion that the shok is the thigh, and then come along and say that true, the skirt must only reach to below the knee (with a margin), however, if it contains a slit below that point it is treif is totally irrational. It is a simple kal vachomer that if the entire skirt could be missing below the margin and be kosher, then if just a slit is missing, and the rest is there, it is certainly kosher. Again, if your posek holds skirts must be ankle length, then come out and say it. But this is not what I have seen in camp clothing lists, where this silly contradiction in logic exists that they must only cover the knee, but slits are forbidden. The only logic there is that they are concerned about some styles where the slit goes far above the knee, and hence forbid all slits.
EyesOpen, the reason why I am so against creating new chumras, is that the primary problem facing the klal is the terrible fighting and sinah amongst groups. Conceivably a girl wearing a kosher slit could now find herself the target of acid throwers, or bus-beaters if this misconception is allowed to circulate. One who follows the mishna berura should not have to fear these loonies who are all too common these days. (Even one who does not follow the halacha correctly should not have to fear these loonies either.)
Even aside from that, why must we make divisions in the klal, where if a girl wears something kosher that is not what is worn in XYZ community, she should be the object of derision, not our type, more modern, etc.
As far as Bas Melech, one who follows the halacha is a Bas Melech. We do not have the authority to make up arbitrary rules not based in halacha and declare that one who does not keep them is inferior. I have seen on camp lists that the very long floor dragging skirts are also treif. Somebody decided that is not the yeshivishe thing to do, and invented a new halacha or minhag by which to look down on the other. In fact it has as much significance in the eyes of the RBSH as the color of a man’s suit or shirt, which is zero.November 23, 2008 12:43 am at 12:43 am #1077689chasid-of-HashemMember
sorry to disturb this discussion, but i have a real “random” question. What does “ibid” stand for when quoting a source in a newspaper?November 23, 2008 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1077690
the source of the quoted thing right before itNovember 23, 2008 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1077692
(latin) “in the same place,” used to indicate a source or reference is the same as that previously described.
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