Shaitle Fraud Chillul Hashem Video: Sha'ar haTumah haChamishim

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  • #593347

    cantoresq
    Member

    Look at this, and tell me your thoughts. Words actually fail me.

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=77684

    #717787

    myfriend
    Member

    What a joke. TV justice indeed. Good for entertainment value, nothing else.

    #717788

    so right
    Member

    These judge shows do whatever will bring more viewers; that’s all their so-called “judgement” is based on. The so-called “judge” is just an entertainer hired by a TV producer for her ratings value. And ratings is what their “judgement” is based on. The “courtroom” and the guy dressed like a security man are all props.

    #717789

    cantoresq
    Member

    So right, that’s not exactly accurate. In truth theses are real cases and controversies between individual parties. They have agreed to adjudicate the claims in the televised forum, which is a technically a form of alternate dispute resolution. They agree to do that since the show’s producers agree to pay any award that is made. That way a defendant ordered to pay money winds up paying nothing, and a plaintiff is guaranteed payment. But this couple was real, they did lie and try to perpetrate a fraud, using Tzniut as the prop.

    #717790

    John Doe
    Member

    this is beyond sickening.

    these people should be publicly banned and shunned from the community.

    they have a din of a rodef.

    non-jews hate jews for these very reasons.

    absolutley sickening!

    #717791

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Being that I can’t see youtube, can someone summarize the video please?

    #717792

    Helpful
    Member

    There is no way the actress playing TV “judge” could have made a determination of what company originally made that severly destroyed wig, based on a quick phone call to the company describing how the destroyed wig currently looked like.

    The whole show is a big joke.

    #717793

    cantoresq
    Member

    GAW, it was a clearly frum couple suing a non-Jewish laundry service for ruining a sheitel. The uncontroverted facts were that the sheitel got mixed up in the laundry. The laundry called the owners to insure they wanted it washed. There was a mix up, with the owners saying “don’t wash it,” and the laundry hearing “wash it.” The wig got ruined. The owners sued for $3,000.00 The judge did not ficus so much on whether the owners authorized the laundry to wash the sheitel, since once they undertook to do it, they had a duty to not ruin the item. Rather the judge focused on if the wig can be repaired or not. Ostensibly during a recess, the judge called the wig manufacturer, and learned that the wig in question was not the wig sold for $3,000.00 and that the frum couple were lying.

    #717794

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Being that I can’t see youtube, can someone summarize the video please?

    A frum couple is suing a dry cleaning establishment for $3000.

    Frum couple claims that their child accidentally tossed a $3000 Georgi wig into the dry cleaning bag. When the dry cleaners saw it, they called the customer to ask what to do with the wig. Plaintiff says that they told them not to wash the wig, defendant says she was told to wash, but not dry the wig. In addition, there were clearly language issues during the phone call.

    Wig comes back ruined. The frum couple says that the wig is a total loss. They took the wig to three places to see if it could be repaired, but do not have any documentation of this.

    The judge calls a recess and takes the wig and the woman’s receipt for the wig into her chambers. When she comes back from recess the judge says she called Georgi and confirmed that the woman did, indeed, buy a $3000 wig from them — but that it was a long wig — the wig the woman was wearing to court. The wig that was damaged was a short wig and not even sold by Georgis based on the model name. Judge gave the frum couple a tongue lashing and dismissed the case.

    The Wolf

    #717795

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Thanks cantoresq.

    Is this TV show real or is it made up, like wrestling?

    Seems like a made up story to me.

    #717796

    myfriend
    Member

    cantoresq: You can say “ostensibly” again.

    #717797

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Is this TV show real or is it made up, like wrestling?

    Generally, it’s real. They take people who have cases pending in small claims court and have them agree to settle their dispute on the show. Both parties are paid for their appearance.

    While I’m certain that production values are taken into account, the general procedure is real. I’ve seen postings from people from unrelated cases who have been on the show and they confirm that the cases and outcomes are real.

    The Wolf

    #717798

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    thanks wolf.

    #717799

    Helpful
    Member

    The whole case is heard and decided in less than one hour. Even before editing out for tv production time constraints, the entire “case” is opened and closed in, at most, 45 minutes.

    #717800

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    HUGE chillul hashem.

    #717801

    jewish source
    Participant

    She’s shaking her head yes when the Judge is telling her what she did.

    #717802

    cantoresq
    Member

    I once had a client who settled his child support case on this show. The cases are real.

    #717803

    jewish source
    Participant

    Lemaseh Its a Chillul H. only if the Judge is correct. But we have an obligation to be beleive achainu bnei yisroel am kadosh venora

    and they are heilage yidishe neshomos.I think Georgies has to step forward and confirm a couple of things here.

    #717804

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    Huge chilul HaSh-m!!!

    How would any of YOU have reacted IF you were telling the truth and the judge said (as she did here) that you were lying and perpetrating a fraud?

    Wouldn’t you have been indignant?

    Wouldn’t you have opened your mouth and said something like…

    “Judge, you’ve gotten wrong information, that destroyed wig IS my $3000 Georgi wig!!! I have told you the absolute TRUTH!!!

    But in fact how DID they react? – They were basically silent, and their silence spoke volumes! (as in “Gotcha!”)

    Want to know one reason (of the many) why kids go “off the derech”?

    Because they see hypocritical behavior like this from “frum” adults.

    #717805

    i have heard that law enforcement officials watch shows like this in order to act when they see a crime that was committed.

    i would not be at all surprised if they are prosecuted (probably successfully) for fraud.

    what a sad, terrible thing. let us hope they do sincere Tshuvah

    #717807

    cantoresq
    Member

    Moderator-80, as I recall, there is no kaparah, in this life, for chillul Hashem.

    #717808

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Well, what do you think actually happened?

    I will ignore the first question of the authorization to wash. It is clear the couple would not tell them to wash it, and clear it was a mix up.

    So, here are some choices.

    A. The couple sent a garbage shaitel in to be able to make a claim. – This very unlikely.

    B. A shaitel was sent in and ruined. It cost only a few hundred, but when they refused to pay the couple figured let’s get them for 3000.- Do you think that lady would own a cheap shaitel?

    C. An expensive shaitel was sent in and ruined. It was a few years old, and they don’t have the receipt. So they grab the Georgi receipt thinking it’s about the same anyway, or maybe thinking it is the only way to recover anything.- I think something along these lines is what happened.

    If I am correct, it is still really bad, but not quite as bad as it looks.

    #717809

    Helpful
    Member

    Where is aries chiding people for being “judgemental” on this couple?

    80, how can you be convinced of a frum yid’s guilt based on a 20 minute tv show?

    #717810

    youre right helpful

    #717811

    littleeema
    Participant

    MOD:

    First of all, the process may have taken more than 20 min- they edit the trial for TV. And small claims court proceedings generally last for about 30 minutes total.

    Secondly, the producers of this show check public records for people who are filing claims in small claims court. They contact the defendants and offer them the option of appearing on the show, and if they lose, then the show pays the cost. If the defendant agrees, they make the same offer to the plaintiff.

    So- this means that “M&H” (who at least chose not to have their family name on TV – zchus avos!) FILED A FALSE CLAIM IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT. Had this gone to trial in court, they were willing to swear/affirm that all this was true.

    Am I the only one who thinks that funding a sheitel this way is “tovel vesheretz beyado”?

    How are we an “or lagoyim?”

    #717812

    Tshuvah is always desired by Hashem and always has a mitigating effect

    misah is a Kaporrah for chillul Hashem, when accompanied by Tshuvah

    #717813

    squeak
    Participant

    I don’t understand why this has gone viral with frum people. Isn’t it defeating the “purpose” (or “moral”) of the story by spreading the chillul hashem/loshon harah?

    #717814

    Jose
    Member

    The chillul hashem was going the show. Whatever occurred or whatever was decided did not make the situation better.

    I firmly believe anyone who agrees to adjudicate an issue in such a matter is mechallel shem shomayim. And it would be even worse if it were between two yiddin.

    I not sure if I can say it is brabim, because that would assume on TV is considered a rabim of shomrei Torah.

    #717815

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Squeak,

    I very much agree. The more the video is viewed, the more public and prominent it becomes, and the more it spreads. I would not click on it, why would I want to watch my brethren humiliated, whether or not they were right or wrong? I feel flushed just thinking about it.

    #717816

    Helpful
    Member

    squeak, juicy loshon hora goes viral regardless of the truth.

    #717817

    squeak
    Participant

    Helpful,

    Your comment is coming at me from left field. The truth is not the concern here, it’s spreading of the story that bothers me. If 3 people know a piece of loshon harah and then you forward it to all your email contacts, is that not a sin? Does that not increase the impact of the chillul hashem caused by the story?

    I consider it sadly ironic that people are posting the link publicly- spreading the chillul hashem by calling attention to what a chillul hashem the story is.

    #717818

    myfriend
    Member

    The chillul hashem was going the show. Whatever occurred or whatever was decided did not make the situation better.

    I firmly believe anyone who agrees to adjudicate an issue in such a matter is mechallel shem shomayim. And it would be even worse if it were between two yiddin.

    I not sure if I can say it is brabim, because that would assume on TV is considered a rabim of shomrei Torah.

    Well said Jose. I agree 100%.

    #717820

    jewish source
    Participant

    We have a problem here anyone that has some sort of solution to extinguish this fire will be greatly rewarded from Shomayim

    #717821

    Helpful
    Member

    squeak, I agree with you 100%. Sorry for not being clear about that.

    #717822

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    Any dry cleaning store knows that hair will be damaged in the dry cleaning process. They can’t even do animal fur, and if your coat has a real fur trim they will tell you that the fur CANNOT BE DRY CLEANED. Important to go to a reputable dry cleaning place that knows their business!

    I thought what happened was what poppa bar abba wrote…

    C. An expensive shaitel was sent in and ruined. It was a few years old, and they don’t have the receipt. So they grab the Georgi receipt thinking it’s about the same anyway, or maybe thinking it is the only way to recover anything.- I think something along these lines is what happened.

    That is why she kept quiet when the Judge said her verdict, cause she had no proof of the value of the wig. As far as the damaged wig being a short wig, I think it was a long wig but it was thrown in the machine and any wig would look like a pletzel even if it was very long. And she did indeed buy the wig at Georgie but it was discontinued so that’s why georgie worker said we no longer make the wig.

    will the owner of the dry cleaner now sue because they were hauled to court? wonder how that works.

    #717824

    squeak
    Participant

    I guess it was implied, but it’s been so long that I needed to hear it explicitly 🙂

    #717825

    Helpful
    Member

    Nah, I agree with you far more often than not. Its just that when we disagree, the sparks fly. 🙂

    #717826

    lkwdfellow
    Member

    How much do these TV Court shows pay the plantiff & defendant to have their case tried on the show?

    #717828

    myfriend
    Member

    They pay both parties a fee to appear. In addition to that, they pay the cost of the judgement to the defendant, if he loses, or to the plaintiff what he sought, if he loses.

    And both parties have to agree to not be disrespectful to the judge, even if she acts like an idiot.

    #717829

    mosheemes2
    Member

    The problem with PBA’s theory is that the judge said she knew the brand, which is how she knew it wasn’t the $3000 wig, and that, aside from it not being what they said it was, it was a five dollar wig.

    #717830

    lkwdfellow
    Member

    myfriend – so it’s a win-win deal, even if you lose the case you’re covered. I was just trying to figure out why people would want to appear on these types of shows.

    #717831

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Must this be commented on further? Whatever the reality is, spreading this story is Lashon Hara about M&H and possibly motsi shem ra if the editors edited out portions that would make their claim look better than it is.

    #717832

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes I was aware of that. I don’t think I believe that the judge found out what it was, and it was only worth a few hundred (or a few).

    Seriously, do you think that lady would own a cheap synthetic shaitel? I’m sure she’d rather be humiliated as an internet sensation than go to Pomegranate in a cheap shaitel.

    #717833

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    On thing just doesnt klap!

    How did the judge know to call Georgie out of all the wig makers in NY,,??

    She asked the lady where she bought the wig AFTER she claimed that she already called G?

    #717834

    midwesterner
    Participant

    Aishes Chayil, did you watch the whole clip? Georgi WAS mentioned before as the source!

    #717835

    Helpful
    Member

    And how would Georgie’s be able to identify which shaitel that was simply with a verbal description of an already very damaged shaitel, over a 5 minute telephone call?

    #717836

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    How did the judge know to call Georgie out of all the wig makers in NY,,??

    The woman gave the judge the receipt for the sheitel (the judge held it up at the end of the case) to prove its value. Presumably the receipt had the address and phone number of the store.

    The Wolf

    #717837

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    She didnt speak to Georgy herself, but presumably someone who works there, which is ofcourse what made their excuse that Georgy was in France so ridiculous, lol!

    #717838

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    even if the wig was damaged, the judge could probably still read the label that was in the wig and call Georgie with the info.

    #717839

    mosheemes2
    Member

    PBA,

    I can’t really speculate about whether she’d wear a five dollar sheitel, but she wouldn’t need to if she bought it to try to commit fraud against the dry cleaner. It seemed from the clip, that the wig had some sort of identifying tag, which really does explain every question being asked here.

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