September 27, 2010 8:45 am at 8:45 am #592458
My parents have been frum now for over 25 years and bh have brought up 3 frum kids from birth. Why is it that people reject shidduchim suggested to them because the family is balei teshuva? Isn’t it something to be proud of? Whats wrong with marrying in to such a family? Shouldn’t they be acceptred like evryone else? Why suggest ill people? Is it so bad to be balei teshuva? Hallavi everyone should grow as much as my parents did!
Are there any shadchanim out there who deal especially in with children from balei teshuva households? People would not even know that my parents were not frum unless you told them? The children appreciate yiddishkeit!!September 27, 2010 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #699049
didu, I too think its ridiculous.
I think people are afraid of:
1) Non-frum relatives that may be part of their grandchildrens lives
2) What their neighbors will say when they find out
3) The lack of “yichus”
4) whats the neighbors will say when they find out
Its part of the many problems that exist in the shidduch world today. Are you parents rich? Money solves many things.September 27, 2010 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #699050
didu – people are crazy thats the bottom line. Its not you its them, as someone who is currently single I see that the reason why there is a “shidduch crisis” is not because of an “age gap” or any thing else but rather because of peoples stupidity.
And to answer your original question, I believe that there is an organization that deals directly with Baalei Teshuva and people with a Baal Teshuva backgrounds it is called The Rebbitzens. I am not sure if they can help you but give it a shot!
G’luck!September 27, 2010 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #699051
Not my local experience, B”H. I would say that a kid who him/herself is a BT may (or may not) need someone with some story him/herself but children? Not having a problem, AFAIK.September 27, 2010 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #699052
I am in the same boat, pretty much. Except that I just don’t care. As my mother likes to say, anyone who’s not gonna want to go out with any of us for that reason, is not someone we want to get involved with either. We’re a very good family and we care about serving Hashem, not appearances, and frankly I will feel lucky to marry into a family that is as happy and focused on the right things as my family is.September 27, 2010 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #699053
I too fall under that category. However, I just entered the shidduch parsha so I don’t know if this is indeed true.
I certainly hope that the family I marry into will appreciate me for who I am and not focus on my lack of yichus and whatnot. I am proud of my parents and the life choices they made and I want my husband to feel the same. I would marry the son of ba’alei teshuva in a heartbeat (provided that everything else matches up, of course).
I do find, however, that shidduchim with regular yeshivish families (where the parents are ffb) is much simpler because they don’t have to get used the whole shidduch system. I find that the idea of support is not so scary as it is with ba’alei teshuva. It’s a difficult concept – primarily because it’s so foreign – of supporting your children AFTER they get married. In the secular world, you don’t get married until you’re ready to support a family. This is the world ba’alei teshuva come from. Unless the bt parents are 100% completely engrained in a yeshivish community and not involved with the secular world on any level, or are extremely well-off, this is very difficult to get passed. A regular yeshivish family will just take out a loan if they need because the idea of support is as normal as putting food on the table for shabbos.September 27, 2010 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #699054
A wholesome family is more important than whether the Bais Yaakov graduated mother went to Stevenson High. Life factors change and that’s what makes life interesting. As long as the Baal Teshuva family is honest with themselves and knows where they are heading, they are not much different than a FFB family. If they are sticking a wet finger in the air to figure out how the wind is blowing in order to change towards that direction, such a family needs more careful checking.September 27, 2010 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #699055
Sacrilege – The Rebbetzins is for ba’alei teshuva themselves who don’t have mothers or fathers to make the phone calls and do the checking. They act as “surrogate” mothers for these individuals. Didu is talking about children of ba’alei teshuva.
I think it would be a wonderful idea to have a shadchan deal directly with children of ba’alei teshuva. A woman I know once said that they should start a shidduch organization called “Rav Noach’s Children” (Rav Noach Weinberg – founder of Aish Hatorah).
Another thought I just had – the shidduch “movement” is really very recent. Baruch Hashem, there are many, many people who have become frum and gotten married and had children. But their children are still very young. The oldest children of ba’alei teshuva are right now in their early 20’s. The boys are still in their early 20’s and most of them are not ready to date, but the girls are.September 27, 2010 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #699056
The Best BubbyParticipant
Didu and paschabchochma and L613 should all be matzliach in their endeavors in finding a shidduch hagun be karov Amen!
I believe that Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis, of the Jewish Press and her children have set up shidduchim for BT’s and children of BT’s. Reb. Jungreis gives a shiur on Monday and Thursday nights and it is worth getting in contact with her. She sees people after the shiur and takes all the details and helps make many good shidduchim. Her details are: The Hineni Heritage Center, 232 West End Ave., NY, 10023 Tel: 1212 496 1660 Fax: 1212 496 1908 email: firstname.lastname@example.org May everyone be matzliach!
I believe everyone should be looked at in their OWN merit, and not who or what their parents are or not. H’KBH gives each person their eizer kinnegdo BEFORE they are born, when a bas kol comes out 40 days before a baby is born and says which son and which daughter will marry whom. Have much emunah, bitachon and hatzlacha rabbah bechol maasei yedaychem! Keep us informed of any good news!September 27, 2010 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #699057
L613: support is alien to a lot of FFBs too. It kind of fell out of practice in America this century. Paying for the wedding, helping out for a down payment if possible,that’s been around, but not this kind of support.September 27, 2010 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #699058
I married a BT, and I can tell you from my own experience, that you should not judge those who are leery. I wouldn;tt rade my husband for ANYONE, but there ARE problems inherent in the family dynamic, and some people feel that marriage under the best of circumstances is a challenge, so why add tension to the mix? When one side of the family is not frum, it creates a lot of stress when simchas come up. In the non-religious family, we had a situation where a close family member married a goy, and we were not forgiven for not attending the wedding. It took the death of a family member to heal the breach. It is also stressful that you can only visit one side for Shabbos and Yom Tov. The non-frum fo not “get” you and think you are always being a fanatic for simply keeping kosher. “Why CAN’T you eat with us at the diner? We’ll just have DAIRY!”
You would think that a generation away from that, people would not be so worried, when both baalei teshuvah’s kids are frum from birth. But even that is not “good enough” for some, because they have it drummed into them to marry the daughter of a talmid chochom, and the father of the boy does not want an am haaretz for a mechutan (not my words, and an unfair assumption for the boy’s father to make about the potential mechutan, though at times it is 100% true).September 27, 2010 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #699059
Any FFB parent that is not interested in a Balei Teshuva boy/ girl for their child is nothing more than a snob!September 27, 2010 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #699060
I have been saying recently that I hope the shidduch system is fixed before my children are in the parsha, but I have changed my mind. I want to know exactly where people stand re: BTs so that we know right away the kind of families we DON’T want our FF3 etc. children to marry into.
My children love Torah and Yiddishkeit. They don’t go through the motions like automatons. I’m not saying that all FFBs do, but I’ve seen so many who just seem to take it for granted. As a BT, one of the best gifts Hashem could give me (besides, say, Moshiach) is frum grandchildren who love Torah as much as I do because of the love they see in their families for Torah.September 27, 2010 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #699061
Saftala, I wouldn’t say snob (if you’re talking about the kid him/herself, not the parents). Your typical kid today is going to be exposed to and/or experience a LOT and not everyone can handle that.
Now you might say, not every FFB kid is so pure. Fine, this could be just what the FFB in question needs.
Or maybe not, just saying that I think your statement’s unfair.September 27, 2010 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #699062
Tzippi, I know of a couple of situations where the FFB family turned down a B.T. boy who was FFB and with fabulous recommendations because his parents were B.T. Another situation involved a girl who was a B.T. for 20 years. The boy’s parents refused to even meet her for no other reason than ‘what would the neighbors say.’
In both cases, each met their ‘partner’, married and are raising a religious family.September 27, 2010 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #699063
“Why is it that people reject shidduchim suggested to them because the family is balei teshuva? Isn’t it something to be proud of? Whats wrong with marrying in to such a family? Shouldn’t they be accepted like everyone else?”
Didu, I couldn’t agree with you more. And I don’t only talk the talk but I walk the walk.
But the main reason why FFB families run away from ba’alei tshuva shidduchin is hypocrisy from on top. While there are a few exceptions, the majority of Rabbonim and kiruv professionals in the Orthodox world, while they advocate FFB/ba’alei tshuva marriages, will not have their own children marry ba’alei tshuva. If this were not the case, you would find the acceptance level vastly higher.September 27, 2010 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #699064
TBB: I don’t think that kids of BTs need anything different than others in shidduchim. Rebetzin Jungreis, if I’m not mistaken, is more for older singles. We all have the same problems – my FFB from FFB friends with yichus are NOT havign an easier time than my FFB from BT friends.
Thank you for the good wishes and the same to you, your family and the entire klal yisrael!September 27, 2010 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #699065
Thank you didu for bringing up such an important topic. Although I agree that its incorrect to write off a shidduch simply because the parents are bts I do think it brings up more for consideration: Two points which are critical which were already mentioned are having non-frum relatives and the difficulties it brings as well as the parents orientation to shidduchim in the frum society.
But I also believe its possible that althought the bt parents raised their children to be frum there still can be differences in a childs upbringing between the bt parents and the ffb parents. Certain hashkafos and ideas can really only be transmitted from birth and are very hard to explain to bts to become accustomed with. I’d esspecially be concerned if it was the parents oldest child.September 27, 2010 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #699066
Thanx 4 all the feedback! It has really been an eye opener to see all your opinions and btw-thanx 4 the brachas!! Your right that meal times can be ackward with non-frum relatives but here i am talking about children who have been brought up in these circumstances and so are able to relate to it. If you marry a BT than I understand, but a child of a BT who is FFB? If anything the BT’s have their hashkafos more clear then FFB simply because they have learned it directly from their Rav or the Torah, and it is not justpassed down with no understanding from generation to generation!! They are much stronger and feel more for what they are doing! I really think its such a chillul hashem for these BT’s to work so hard to get to where they are then totally reject them from our circles?September 27, 2010 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #699067
Saftala: different story.
Cherrybim: I know a very chashuv rosh yeshiva whose son in law’s a BT. That was 25 years ago. I’ll bet it wouldn’t work for that same son in law’s kids. But you never know…September 27, 2010 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #699068
I would like to address the issues here:
1. Non- frum relatives. Not a problem for me growing up. Everyone has some distant frum relatives and we know them.
2. No yichus. Who said? Many BTs DO have yichus. Many FFBs don’t. I know some people who became BTs because they have yichus and feel they should be living up to it.
3. Taharas Hamishpacha issues: only apply to BT themselves, not to their kids.
4. Understanding of shidduchim: Most BTs have a harder time getting married and get married later than FFBs. Beleive me they are quite educated as to the shidduch system!!
5. Upbringing: Depends on the educational level of the parents. In my experience, if anything kids of BTs are much more aware of why they are frum than others. You can read my posts and decide for yourself if children of BTs are less than children of FFBs in any way.
As for the oldest: well I am, hope that didn’t give away my identity.
6. FFB marrying BT: I think there are more problems with this than BT marrying BT. Why would an FFB marry a BT? I know several couples where an FFB with problems married a wonderful BT person. However, the children I know seem to have come out the same as kids of FFB or BT couples.
7. (because “kol hashvi’in chavivin”) People put way too much stock in these things. There are lots of ppl who you have NO idea are BTs and lots of people who went thru all kinds of problems, and no amount of research will guarantee you anything.
“Atzas Hashem Hi Sakum”
We all have our place and mission in the world and the only thing we should be looking for perfection in is serving Hashem.September 27, 2010 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #699069
It is hard for me to write this. But I want to share with you all the pain of my beautiful daughter since it is relevant to all of the above discussion. I happen to have been born friar but used my free will to turn around to serve Hashem by dedicating our lives to him, willingly. We are a BT family, and my daughter is in the parsha but when she comes to me with tears in her eyes and asks “who is going to settle for me?” it mamish breaks my heart. Not that I don’t believe she will get the best heart.
However, although we have been frum and totally integrated into our culture around us she has nightmares of marrying some decrepit, handicapped, or worse some “bum” – because of her background. SHe cries when she thinks how all her friends are naturally going to get “the best shidduchim” and she fears life and the future. And bemoans her fate that she will have to take someone with “a problem”. I have explained to her that there is someone perfect for her, because she is a good girl, so naturally the boy will be her perfect match. I paint a picture that due to the class system circumstances, even her friends can’t have the good catch from the “pool of bochurim” she must shop from and I say jokingly that is ‘their loss’…but at the end of the day none of this can take her fears away. I try telling her that being the son of a rosh yeshiva or coming from a rebbish heime doesn’t mean the boy has a good heart or middos.
I believe at the end of the day the only thing left we have is bitachon. Look/ think of how many families who had yichus, money, etc are suffering from their spouses today. Some of the “best” families I have unfortunately had the acquaintence of, have had the worst middos, and led me to question if they even have a basic belief in G-d. MeanWhile others have left me wondering how it can be they were brought up and educated in supposedly the best schools, since they seemed to have absorbed very little in hilchos bein adom l’chavero. I must say that I would not necessarily want any of these ‘best families’ for my kids. We know it is written everything in this world is upside down. And those who look honorable from the outside is not always necessarily so. THose with big names, titles, or recognition does not mean yiras shomayim.
But yeah, I am a little annoyed at the class system at the end of the day as well.September 27, 2010 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #699070
I fully understand those who are wary of marrying/marrying their kids off to children of BT. Parenting is taught by example, and BTs (due to no fault of their own) have little to no knowledge of how to run a frum home. They can be and often are wonderful parents, but they’re starting from scratch when it comes to frum parenting. This is probably the reason why it is more common for children of BTs to go off the derech: the parenting in a BT home is a first attempt, with no previous training.
Caveat: I said I understand those who are wary of marrying/marrying their kids off to children of BT; not that I feel this is the correct way of doing things. I do not.September 28, 2010 12:11 am at 12:11 am #699071
Paschabachachma – I totally agree with you. I am FFB and have dated many BT (in a way I prefer it due in part to some of the reasons didu so eloquently discribed). One of the guys I dated:
– Had yichus (altho this is something I care about nor look for) traced directly back to Brisk.
– Had one whole side of his family COMPLETELY frum.
Every situation is different to make blanket statements in this area is completely foolish. At the end of the day however, I find that BT are usually more comfortable with other BT. I dont think this would hold true for children of BT and I dont know why anyone should look twice @ them for shidduchim…. Just shows how everyone has to fit the same cookie cutter mold and if you dont, you are cast to the side (BT, or not)
Frumladygit – That is truly heart breaking! I once heard a beautiful mashal about looking for a spouse if you had something “wrong” with you (I dont think your daughter has anything wrong with her, but you can relate it to her it may make her feel better) Looking for shidduchim is like making a million piece puzzle. Its always hard to find the piece that fits. But, if you are an end piece with a flat edge, you can automatically rule out so many other pieces (i.e. the shallow, in-sincere etc etc) the edges are always the easiest to find. You just have to look for the perfect fit.
Hatzlacha to all!September 28, 2010 12:14 am at 12:14 am #699072
(altho this is something I care about nor look for)
TYPO: shold say isntSeptember 28, 2010 12:55 am at 12:55 am #699073
As hurtful as shidduchim are, I think everyone needs to remember that Hashem decides who and when you are going to get married. I am b’H happily married to a FFB, but I had a very difficult time with shidduchim and was single for a long time. I am a BT for many years. I have friends that are BT and married BT, are FFB and married FFB, are FFB who married BT, and are BT who married FFB. I know girls from undesirable backgrounds who were married at 19 and girls from wonderful backgrounds who are still single and are 30+. I echoed most of the statements on the board for the many years that I was single, but b’H, I did not settle for anyone and my husband did not settle for me. Yes, there were shadchanim who said horrible things to me and people who would not go out with me because of my background. But I would not have been happy with them. The most important thing is to keep davening and believe that no one can take your bashert away from you. I never would have believed that my yeshivish husband would agree to go out, but b’H he did. Maybe the neighbors talked, but b’H it did not matter. Your shidduch will come at the right time. Just keep davening and Hashem will make it work.September 28, 2010 1:04 am at 1:04 am #699074
My father was a BT. Out of that marraige came 2 frum children ( I was the first boy in my father’s family to go to yeshiva in 60 years ), 5 frum grandchilren and, so afr 11 frum great grandchildren.September 28, 2010 1:57 am at 1:57 am #699075
“Any FFB parent that is not interested in a Balei Teshuva boy/ girl for their child is nothing more than a snob! “
I think that statement is a little harsh. You cannot force anyone to accept a shidduch. Even when the parents are both frum BT, the homes they grew up in DO have an impact on them. I had wonderful in-laws, whom I loved dearly, and who loved me the same. But as soon as there was a conflict of a religious nature in the family, they sided with the irreligious relatives. They kept saying, why can we not understand THEIR point of view. To which I replied, WHY can YOU not understand OUR point of view the same way you want us to understand and accept YOURS? It NEVER works that way. The non-frum always expect the frum to make the adjustment.
As I said earlier, it is hard enough making marriage work when you do not have these pressures. Many people simply do not want their kids to have frei grandparents. And we cannot fault the people who feel that way. it is not so glatt an issue as some would like to think. And I have the right to say that – I live that life, and had to work VERY hard to make it work. When my father-in-law thought it was more important to go to his (frei) granddaughter’s first birthday party, rather than to my son’s graduation when he was getting an award for excellence in Limudei Kodesh, I understood that no one has the right to judge someone else’s feelings on this subject.September 28, 2010 2:11 am at 2:11 am #699076
Frumlady your story is very painful and I’m sure it mustve been even before painful to write. Whether it is correct or not the stereotyping that exists in shidduchim will not go away. I heard from a rav say that in todays dor because it may harder than previously, we have to do more hishtadlus than before. Since you face the extra challenge try to network with more shadchanim, friends etc. Iyh your daughter should find her true bashert bikarov!September 28, 2010 2:26 am at 2:26 am #699077
Wuth all due respect, as grandfather, a granchild’s first birthday comes before a graduation awardSeptember 28, 2010 3:02 am at 3:02 am #699079
frumlady, your sincerity really touched my heart. we are also a baal teshuva family that is meiser nefesh for Torah and Hashem’s mitzvos. Only another baal teshuva knows what we go through and how strong we have to be. Our child is still small but I already daven that he should find his bashert … Your post brought tears to my eyes but whatever we go through I really think it is a kapparoh for us (because of the past … etc.) and we have to accept it. I know that our Avinu B’Shamaim hears our tefillos and collects every tear we shed on behalf of our children. May your daughter find her bashert and be zoiche to build a bais ne’eman b’yisroel b’korov!! And you should have much nachas from her and her family and the kindlach she will bring into this world!!!September 28, 2010 3:23 am at 3:23 am #699080
sacrilege: I very much agree with your comment about the cookie cutters. Much Hatzlacha!!September 28, 2010 4:18 am at 4:18 am #699081
I have nothing against BTs.and to quote R’ Amnon Yitzchak ‘we should all be BTs’
but being a shadchan and a Rebitzin for oorah, it basically goes under the category of wanting your own kind, not for any derogetory reasons. I myself being of Hungarian background would prefer with the same background. I have offered some wonderful geirim and geyoros to baalei tshuva and they refused..they would take baalei tshuva..but why should they take geirim.
no problem. I respect everyones wishes.September 28, 2010 5:04 am at 5:04 am #699082
mom12: Excellent point.
Question for the BT’s who are upset with FFB’s who don’t consider BT’s for shidduchim:
Would you consider a shidduch with a Ger (convert) just as quickly as you would with a non-convert?September 28, 2010 5:46 am at 5:46 am #699083
myfriend: Why thank you.September 28, 2010 6:03 am at 6:03 am #699084
lesschumras: Fair point.September 28, 2010 7:24 am at 7:24 am #699086
“They kept saying, why can we not understand THEIR point of view. To which I replied, WHY can YOU not understand OUR point of view the same way you want us to understand and accept YOURS? It NEVER works that way. The non-frum always expect the frum to make the adjustment.”
This is a very harsh statement, and it’s a gross generalization. I know plenty of frum people with non-frum family, and they get along quite well. My own in-laws, who are not frum, keep extra sets of kosher dishes in their basement cabinets for when we would visit. They never watched TV [publicly] when we stayed for Shabbat, nor did they travel anywhere or use the phone. *They* made the adjustments, and we managed quite well.September 28, 2010 7:28 am at 7:28 am #699087
mamashtakah, your quote from oomis1105’s post, reflects her personal experience with her non-frum in-laws. I would venture to say her experience is more typical than yours.September 28, 2010 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #699088
“This is a very harsh statement, and it’s a gross generalization. I know plenty of frum people with non-frum family, and they get along quite well. My own in-laws, who are not frum, keep extra sets of kosher dishes in their basement cabinets for when we would visit. They never watched TV [publicly] when we stayed for Shabbat, nor did they travel anywhere or use the phone. *They* made the adjustments, and we managed quite well. “
Mameshtakeh, I don’t know how recently you joined the CR, but I have often posted about my in-laws int he past. They were AMAZING, wonderful people, with middos that the frummest of the frum would do well to emulate. BUT, when it came to certain inyanim, as I mentioned, i.e. the intermarriage of a close family member, whose wedding we would not attend, they would not accept our decision, and there was a terrible breach with several family members for a long time, until a close family member died. They wanted all the compromise to be on OUR part, but they wouldn’t respect OUR religious needs. That is very often the case when one side of the family is not frum. The frummies get called “religious fanatics” on a regular basis (we were, for not attending a JEWISH wedding in my husband’s family during the Nine Days (it was not my in-laws who called us that, but the mother of the bride had a few choice words for us).
My wonderful in-laws kept plastic goods (I would not have washed a dish in their sink) for us for whenever we came to visit. There was no question of being able to spend a Shabbos by them, though I am glad you were able to work that out with your in-laws. The system always works – until it doesn’t. For 15 years there was never a machlokess with us about anything, and then relative of my husband’s married a goy, and all the understanding flew out the window. These are real issues that need to be addressed and NOT dismissed as “harsh statements.” I have been there for 33 years and I know whereof I speak. And I am one of the LUCKY ones.
My in-laws were very supportive of my husband becoming frum,and were proud of him. But as I said, the frumkeit did not signify enough to my shver to be present at his grandson’s graduation when he was receiving a special choshuv Limudei Kodesh award, because his granddaughter was having a first birthday party, at which she was completely unaware that her grandfather was even there. My son, however, was acutely aware that his only living grandfather (my parents and mother-in-law had passed away before then) did not deem his Yeshivah graduation on par with a family birthday party. We got through those times, but I would not want my own children to face that type of situation, though I would not sof kol sof prevent them from marrying the children of B”T or even a B”T. I just know the pitfalls that are bound to arise (in spite of what you personally experienced, which is the rarity).September 28, 2010 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #699089
Wuth all due respect, as grandfather, a granchild’s first birthday comes before a graduation award “
Lesschumrahs – my son was his grandchild, too. The baby could not care less or even be aware of his being there, and had other grandparents there from the paternal side. My son had no living grandparents BUT him, and BTW, his graduation was scheduled first. My husband’s niece chose to make the party on that day, knowing we had invited him to the graduation already. She would not even make the party later in the day (the graduation was early in the morning and over by noon, including the collation). He could have done both, but chose not to.September 28, 2010 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #699090
Myfriend : You wrote “Question for the BT’s who are upset with FFB’s who don’t consider BT’s for shidduchim:
Would you consider a shidduch with a Ger (convert) just as quickly as you would with a non-convert?
In anwser to your question, my husband is a ger.
What difference does it make what name brand the tag on the dress is as long as you are covered? In other words, if one takes upon himself the Mitzvos and Torah is that not enough? Or we have to have labels? If Hashem wanted us to all keep to our “types” that we’re from, then there would have been more than 12 tribes ascribed. There would be tribes of gerim, BT’s and whatever else you want.
Would you have considered Yisro (Moshe Rabainu’s father in law) from Midian for your daughter? Or you prefer someone with same background over him?
I resent the comment posted above by mw13 who stated as a fact it is more common for children of BT’s to go off the derech than from FFB homes. I disagree entirely. Maybe you can kindly explain then why Monsey and Monroe are having a “bum” crisis?.. Not too many BT’s there in comparision to the Frum families who “know how to parent” naturally, as you stated above.September 29, 2010 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #699091
To answer the question poised by MY FRIEND..in one word YES! If someone converts properly they are just as Jewish as someone who is born FFB.
The Torah tell us to love the Ger [convert]……..September 29, 2010 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #699092
So are you maintaining it is inherently wrong to consider the fact that someone is a BT or Ger when considering a shidduch?
If so, is it more wrong to consider that, than to consider the potential shidduch’s ethnic background, hair color, weight, city of residence, or beauty?
Why is it more wrong for a FFB to not consider a shidduch with a BT, than for an Ashkenaz to not consider a shidduch with a Bukharian Jew?
And what about a Black Ger. Would you go out on a date, and consider for marriage (for yourself or your child), a Black Ger (who is full of midos tovos, Torah, etc.)?September 29, 2010 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #699093
I heard a story recently about a girl who was looking for a shidduch for a very long time. She wanted a very very frum bachur with a true love of torah and amazing middos. She finally found him – a ger tzedek (who also had a broken engagement). She was able to look past his background because he had everything she ever dreamed of. Rav Nosson Tzvi was mesader kiddushin at their wedding. He is now learning full time in the Mir and she is thrilled.September 29, 2010 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #699094
As an FFB married to a BT, I can certainly sympathize with the situation of “oomis1105,” regarding non-observant Jewish relatives, as I have experienced similar issues, also.
I give BT’s 100% credit and admire them for deciding to become Torah-observant Jews.
But if a BT wants to marry an FFB, is the BT prepared to do the following (as “conservative” and “reform” violate the Torah and are therefore not Judaism) ?
1) Not attend “conservative” or “reform” weddings, bar-mitzvahs, and bas-mitzvahs (as their “rabbis” (and especially “gay” or women rabbis) are not rabbis, a double-ring ceremony is not a Jewish ceremony, and there is mixed seating and immodest dress and men and women dancing together to non-Jewish music), etc.) ?
2) Not attend C”V the marriage of a Jew to a non-Jew?
3) Not enter a “conservative” or “reform” temple?
4) Not eat in a non-Kosher home?
5) Insist that Jews dress and behave according to the Torah’s standards of Tznius, when making a Seudas Mitzvah (wedding, bar-mitzvah, etc.) ?
If C”V a relative, even a parent, asks a Jew to violate the Torah, the Jew must refuse.
So is the BT prepared to do this?
If not, why should an FFB want to marry you?September 29, 2010 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #699095
Are we talking about a BT or someone who is thinking about becoming one?
BTs don’t eat non kosher. They follow halacha.September 29, 2010 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #699096
pba, anon613 was referring to the BT’s non-frum family (not the BT themselves obviously.)September 29, 2010 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #699097
“I resent the comment posted above by mw13 who stated as a fact it is more common for children of BT’s to go off the derech than from FFB homes. I disagree entirely. Maybe you can kindly explain then why Monsey and Monroe are having a “bum” crisis?.. Not too many BT’s there in comparision to the Frum families who “know how to parent” naturally, as you stated above.”
As a Monsey resident, I can tell you that the neighborhood that has the biggest “bum crisis”, as you put it, has the most BTs. I’m sorry if this theory offends you, but I’m fairly certain it’s real.September 29, 2010 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #699098
Thank you, Ben Torah. You are correct.
I was referring to the BT’s non-Frum family,
after the BT becomes Torah-observant.October 2, 2010 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #699099
To My friend…
To answer my friend question…….
You asked about a black ger… My cousin who is Haredi and learns full time is married to a black Ger and B”H they have a beautiful frum family and are going to celebrate the Bar Mitzvah of their oldest son in 2 weeks.
Please don’t forget that it is Hashem that decides who we married.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.