July 20, 2017 9:49 am at 9:49 am #1321752The little I knowParticipant
You wrote: “children with televisions in their home affects the child and carries a very strong possibility of that child negatively affecting classmates. No question about it. And there are other influences that a child can have that will negatively affect his or her classmates that must be accounted for. Sometimes the damage that can be done to multiple classmates is more than the damage of requiring that one child to change yeshivas.”
My previous comment was that the statement about negative effect from television sounds really holy. However, it does not pan out in terms of the consequence. Many of my generation grew up with televisions in the home, and turned out to be successful klai kodesh. Their TV’s had no impact on them, and certainly not on me. I am not defending TV, and feel that no home should have one. I oppose using yeshivos as the enforcers of that, or children as the victims. The labeling of a child by the yeshivos based on some of these “standards” is arbitrary. It sounds noble, not different from Korach pronouncing כל העדה כלם קדושים ובתוכם ה. But it has no factual basis, and has yet to be proven. Rather, the role of the yeshiva is to bring the child to the level of Yir’as Hashem in which the choice of that over the TV will be made. That’s what yeshivos did for a few generations. Are we holier now? Where are the current Gedolim that are being produced from this noble arrangement?
You are correct that there are instances in which a child needs to leave a particular yeshiva. There are “rodfim”. But the burden of proof that a given child is among those is on the yeshiva, and outside of the holy sounding words of “standards”, there is nothing to support the expulsion or rejection. There are situations of a mismatch between a yeshiva and an applicant. If the yeshiva was ever in a position of being responsible for the child, it is incumbent on that yeshiva to participate in the effort to find alternative placement. If the parents fooled the yeshiva with inaccurate information, they bear the responsibility.
You referred to “changing yeshivos”. I would agree. However, my experience with many cases is that the expelling yeshiva does not contribute to the alternative placement. It is fact that they sometimes sabotage efforts for the talmid to go elsewhere. This is not an empty or vicious accusation, but facts on the ground. In such cases, the talmid is being sent to the street. The balance of the two sides is not the same as your statement about “changing yeshivos”.July 20, 2017 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1322048
TLIK -“Many of my generation grew up with televisions in the home, and turned out to be successful klai kodesh.”
I agree with this. I think the reason people harp on these superficial things is because a lot of people in our generation need to put others down.
The easiest way to do this, if you yourself aren’t really Chosuv, is to put others down!July 20, 2017 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #1322084👑RebYidd23Participant
What happens to a child who does not have a school to go to is far worse than what happens to a school if one of the kids has a tv at home.July 20, 2017 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1322184MammeleParticipant
TLIK: though television was never “kosher” I’d venture a guess that the channel options are a lot worse today than they were a generation ago.July 20, 2017 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1322204👑RebYidd23Participant
But actual TVs have very little to do with TV these days. People have “TV”s that actually could be used as such but are only there as screens for other devices, and people watch TV on their phones.July 21, 2017 6:33 am at 6:33 am #1322249☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
A clarification was printed in this (the following) week’s Voice
stating that the story did not take place in Lakewood.July 21, 2017 8:56 am at 8:56 am #1322242Avi KParticipant
Mammele, I do not know how old you are but I am old enough (63) to remember the TV shows of yesteryear. They were squeaky clean (even the soap operas were nothing compared to what goes on today) and promoted family values and religion (Bonanza did have an episode that pushed “becoming modern” but The Donna Reed Show had a very positive episode about a girl who would not eat in theor house because it wasn’t kosher).June 7, 2018 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1536041Stop talking and actParticipant
I don’t know who you are and I hope never to know you. Please don’t be a bystander or at least don’t add more hurt to the hurt.
I was once a 9th grader and it wasn’t so long ago. It is too young to put a person into a category it’s such an impressionable age. This girl was a good girl. I know people who were very close to her. The people involved have blood on their hands, lets stop talking so much and act.
Its just not ok.June 7, 2018 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1536113
R3X -“A clarification was printed in this (the following) week’s Voice
stating that the story did not take place in Lakewood.”
SO WHAT? Do you think such stories like this don’t happen here in Lakewood?!?June 7, 2018 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1536129Midwest2Participant
Forty or fifty years ago every child was considered a precious neshamah that we had to guard and educate to join the Torah world – a replacement for one of the many lost. Now that we have, BH, so many children, it seems that no one child is really that important. Schools refuse to admit or expel children no matter what the impact on the child. Children go without school at all because they don’t “measure up.” There is currently an effort in Brooklyn run by a prominent person to make sure that no child starts the school year without a school.
We have been blessed beyond what would have been our wildest dreams in 1946. Can’t we at least show HKBH gratitude by caring for the children he has so miraculously entrusted to us?June 8, 2018 12:50 am at 12:50 am #1536172LoshenhoraParticipant
The story in lakewood hopefully is not even true
But the message is very true
50 years ago my so called charedi principal in a ultra
Was the cause of me rejecting yiddishkite for a long
The cycle continues with my daughter she has not rejected
Yiddishkite BH but the retzach be dam kar going on
in Jewish schools around the world will have to be
answered in shomayimJune 8, 2018 8:10 am at 8:10 am #1536194hmlParticipant
Bottom line: WE ARE KILLING OUR CHILDREN!
Yes, I understand that as parents, we would prefer our kids to be in school with cookie-cutter classmates. But what lessons are we teaching? That if a child is struggling she should be rejected?
I was raised in a very frum home, in a town with no Jewish school. One day, a non-Jewish little girl appeared – a foster child living in the children’s home opposite our house. It turned out her mother had shot her sister’s boyfriend. My parents encouraged me to befriend this poor child, she came over to do homework, to play, and eat a hearty supper, until the day she disappeared as quietly as she arrived.
My parents taught me a valuable lesson: to not reject, to show love & support & to help others. What has changed? Is it all to do with Shidduchim? Do these girls have cooties? What is wrong with these smug, self righteous holy rollers?
Let’s see what happens when THEIR kids go OTD. Karma, my friends, is tough.June 8, 2018 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1536198HaimyParticipant
The schools of the 80’s were a horror compared to the today’s yeshivos. The principals & Rebbeim are trained professionals in most cases. Our chinuch system is doing better today than ever. However, our children are facing more challenges today than ever before. Depression & anxiety is rampant, autism is increasingly common, & the world around us is pulling people down.
It can be very harmful to a child to remain in the mainstream when they can’t manage the curriculum. We can’t expect schools to allow children to sit in a classroom bored & disturbing others. A child left in that situation will begin hating themselves & yiddishkeit as well.
We do need more non conventional classrooms where these children can succeed & feel valued.
The mainstream schools simply cannot service every child with an emotional/behavioral problem, some need different environment. It’s not easy putting your child in a non conventional classroom but it can save the child physically emotionally & spiritually.June 8, 2018 9:38 am at 9:38 am #1536214Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
There are cases I’ve personally seen of kids getting kicked out of PUBLIC schools for things such as drugs, getting pregnant, etc. If those kids go on to kill themselves, I’m sorry, but you blame the situation that the kids got into in the first place, not the expulsion that resulted from it.
What is shown in this letter is clearly the work of someone who wants all the responsibility of what happened (assuming it really did) to fall on the school. Obviously, parents aren’t going to threaten to pull their kids over a student’s low standardized test scores; there was clearly another element being hidden from us. Also, it’s unlikely she would commit suicide solely for being expelled from a school. There could have been something like drugs, same-gender attraction, or some such thing that was purposely omitted.
The only people who are going to believe that this had anything to do with her academics are the people who already are looking for excuses to criticize Lakewood Yeshivish schools.June 8, 2018 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1536222Reb EliezerParticipant
There is a RMA YD 334 we can place someone in cherem and don’t have to worry to the consequences.June 8, 2018 10:08 am at 10:08 am #1536243seedysParticipant
This happens in Brooklyn too. My child, is now an adult, totally not Frum, but still a wonderful person. When it came to high school, no Yeshiva would accept my child. One principal told me, that other parents of my child’s friends, called him and said that if he would accept my child, they would not send their children to that school. They told him false things about my child. I know their children and they were no better than my child. They just had more money and connections.June 8, 2018 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1536332
NCB -“The only people who are going to believe that this had anything to do with her academics are the people who already are looking for excuses to criticize Lakewood Yeshivish schools.”
If you would have bother reading this topic before your comments, you’d have seen that it was later clarified that the OP’s letter took place in NY!
I’ll repeat my comment from above -“Do you think such stories like this don’t happen here in Lakewood?!?”June 13, 2018 8:49 am at 8:49 am #1538517ChaimyParticipant
I recognize the story and this happened in Brooklyn, and the girl had just gotten off drugs and straightened out before she was accepted to school but than with no school no friends no life went back to drugs and overdosed, maybe on purpose, feeling so miserable.June 17, 2018 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1541183Jersey JewParticipant
This is a VERY old letter, probably 3 or more years ago. Even if it was just regurgitated, it is still old. It NEVERY happened. It is SHEKER!June 18, 2018 12:26 am at 12:26 am #1541292
Jersey Jew -“It NEVERY happened. It is SHEKER!”
I already posted – it did happen, but in Brooklyn.
I find it very strange that you come here to deny the reality! There is an old saying about those who protest too much!
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