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Is it wrong to give your goyish neighbors kids candy?
Reb Yaakov used to give to those who rang his doorbell (offen the Artscroll)
Should Jewish children go collecting candy from the goyish neighbors?
gez
of course not.
is that really your question?
or are you asking what should be our response?
80- he’s testing you!
Yes, of course. A) Chillul HaShem B) you REALLY don’t want egg and shaving cream on your house (obviously this applies more to the older kids)
I rarely get more than two or three groups. Most parents these days don’t allow kids to ring strangers’ bells.
Goq,
Are you in an area that you can get egged
Also would you give your coworkers xmas gifts
“Halloween” (a contraction for “hallowed eve”, the evening preceeding “all saints day”) is a Christian holiday. The fact the some of the observances are based on the European’s pre-christian religions (what one calls “pagan”) doesn’t help, since a pagan is still “avodah zarah”. Giving candy to wearing costumes is part of the avodah of this holiday, so it clearly is avodah zarah. Arguably, among many secular people the holiday has lost its religious meaning, and especially among “gay” community has become a celebration of an un-pious lifestyle, which hardly is a heter from our perspective.
The correct way to deal with vandalism is to call 911 as it is a property crime that in some cities leads to life threatening situations (such as arson). Most goyim know not to go “trick or treating” at frum houses, and one should turn off the porch light to show that they are unwelcome.
I have only had to deal with this once. When the kids rang my doorbell, I told them that we do not observe this holiday, but I hope they have a lot of fun and they should not eat any candy without showing everything to their parents first. The kids were very respectful, and understood, and did not come back the following year, though they always sold us chocolate bars (OU-dairy) for their candy drive, and I would buy a large amount from them and explain that because it was kosher, I was able and happy to buy it from them.
“Halloween” (a contraction for “hallowed eve”, the evening preceeding “all saints day”) is a Christian holiday. The fact the some of the observances are based on the European’s pre-christian religions (what one calls “pagan”) doesn’t help, since a pagan is still “avodah zarah”. Giving candy to wearing costumes is part of the avodah of this holiday, so it clearly is avodah zarah. Arguably, among many secular people the holiday has lost its religious meaning, and especially among “gay” community has become a celebration of an un-pious lifestyle, which hardly is a heter from our perspective.
The correct way to deal with vandalism is to call 911 as it is a property crime that in some cities leads to life threatening situations (such as arson). Most goyim know not to go “trick or treating” at frum houses, and one should turn off the porch light to show that they are unwelcome.
Your point? Rav Yaakov still gave candy, even with all the good Cheshbonos.
Well said, akuperma.
“Halloween” (a contraction for “hallowed eve”, the evening preceeding “all saints day”) is a Christian holiday.”
Tell that to the Muslim and Atheist kids who come collecting candy 🙂
gavra_at_work: Thousands of Gedolim and RY DID NOT give candies on halloween. Probably in the range of 99.999% of them. You only have a daas yochid.
akuperma
“Arguably, among many secular people the holiday has lost its religious meaning, and especially among “gay” community has become a celebration of an un-pious lifestyle, which hardly is a heter from our perspective.”
Hardly is a heter???
issur deoraysa!! see parashas acharei mos for further details
Goq;
If anyone fitting the profile ends up on my doorstep,
I have miniature toothpaste and toothbrushes I hand out.
I tell them to spread the word….They do,
They never come again… 🙂
Growing up, we always gave candy to trick-or-treaters. We still do, although there are less and less non-Jews that go trick-or-treating in my neighborhood every year.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with not opening your door to them. Plenty of people don’t. But it would be very wrong to do anything that would show scorn or contempt.
Bein_H: Perfect!
Oomis: Kol Hakavod!
akuperma: When I was growing up (pre-BT days), we knew to never bother going to houses where the porch light was off.
Once year, I got a pomegranate. I didn’t know what it was and tried to take a bite. BLECH!
We hang a sign on the door that says “Sorry, no more candy,” which is the emmes since I’m frum now. 🙂
I actually had a debate with my frum dentist years ago. He held that Thanksgiving is Avodah Zara and Halloween is totally mutar and has no religious meaning.
Guess he wanted more business!
oomis: good thinking
Bein: smart idea and absolutely hysterical
yehudahx2: good debate!!!
When I had at my house a couple of years ago, we didn’t have any cnady in my house since it was the 1st year that people camp knocking at my door. I answered and saw these two young boys and it didn’t register till I saw their costumes that it was halloween. I told my parents and we searched through my house until we found like 3 day old cream filled cookies. We gave it to them and Baruch Hashem they never came back!!!
I thank those cookies every day!!!
p.s also my elementry school gets egged like every year. But what’s the point of the eggs?
The Goq: B”H, much better. Thank you for asking.
ok so.. ill tell you guys what the mekor is of this holiday ( im sure youll go google it and prove me wrong), and you can figure out yourself if its cool w/you to shtell tzu. this was told to me 6 years ago by an extremely knowledgable christian teacher. i never verifie it but i trust him. (see above brackets). he taanas that it shtams from a holiday whereby goyim would dress up as a tradesman, knock on a jewish door offering services as a traveling carpenter etc. , and, when allowed entry, proceeded to kill them. nowadays they give candy instead. good holiday?
i dont know the mekor
but knowing the mekor for the papal costume, the altar, incense, holy water, “kipahs”, holy buildings, and a whole lot of other twisted Jewish ideas…
i would guess the idea of dressing in costumes and visiting homes to obtain presents of food was taken from Purim.
i really doubt the story told to toi
since when have the goyim needed subterfuge to enter Jewish homes on their holiday rampages. kicking in the door has generally been the method of choice.
M80: I would Ta’anah that the custom of many to wear full customs on Purim nowadays as actually taken from the Goyim by Halloween.
There is no Avodah and no celebration in kids asking for candy. It’s not a religious service at all. In fact, most kids going out and asking for candy probably aren’t religious anyway. There should be nothing Assur about giving them the candy unless you are worried about Lo Sechonem.
I am pretty sure that i read that Rav Pam zatzal used to give out nosh when the kids came.
It’s actually a merger of two holidays. The Pagan Celtic holiday “Samhain” and the Catholic “All Souls Day.” Samhain was the harvest festival which ushered in the “dark half” of the year. See Mishna Avoda Zara regarding the holiday of Saturnalia which was not dissimilar. X-Mas is based on it. All Souls Day is the Catholic prayer holiday for all the souls who didn’t make it into “heaven” or are lingering in purgatory. Either way it’s about death and darkness.
There is no doubt that this “holiday” is rife with tumah and idol worship. It is antithetical to Judaism. My own minhag… NO candy to be mesamayach the Goyim or nonreligious Jews on that day. Then again I don’t give gifts on Hannukah either because I feel it is mimicking a minhag of Avodah Zara.
Its one thing to turn off your porch lights and front room lights and pretend not to be home.
Its quite another to tell some little kids one dressed as Cinderella, another dressed as superman and another dressed as a Power Ranger “Sorry I dont have candy for you, I dont celebrate this goyish pagan holiday”
Toi, growing up I was exposed to several xtian sects, and I never heard that story. What I learned was that Nov 1st was their “All Saints Day” and the night before was the chance for the rabble rousers to wreak havoc. Nowadays the Nov 1st part is not really acknowledged or observed and the night before has been co-opted by many with pagan beliefs.
Last year I read an article about Hallowe’en. It seems to have lost most of its attachments to religion. This article also said that more homes are decorated for Hallowe’en than for any other holiday – because it is now considered a non-religious holiday and crosses the boundaries of many different religions. I know that when I was a kid, nobody decorated homes for Hallowe’en and in the past 20+ years it has become such a big deal. Some people really go all out. Of course, the person who invented orange leaf bags with faces painted on them was brilliant. Because this is the time of the year that people are raking up their leaves anyway, at least they can now be used for decor.
Moderator-80: Actually the costumes developed in areas with very few Jews, and had to do with the avodah of their holiday. In all fairness, its no worse than hanging up a stocking or having a commemorative tree in the house for Dec. 25 (so if you don’t mind doing avodah zarah for Dec. 25, you probably won’t mind doing it on Oct. 31).
I don’t give candy cuz noone comes to collect candy in my neighborhood.
gavra_at_work: Thousands of Gedolim and RY DID NOT give candies on halloween. Probably in the range of 99.999% of them. You only have a daas yochid.
Joe, try me: Which Gadol that you know (in America, where there is no fear of death) did not give candy after having children knock on his door?
One documented instance?
I vote it is absolutely wrong to give out candy. The origins of that holiday are severely pagan and even though their descendants today make it a childish activity, it is still something that we should stay away from. I mean, even the holiday costumes and images are in no way to look at the spiritual world including ways of portraying those who have passed on. Its all wrong. One of their dumbest holidays.
It is interesting how in this thread the feeling of what one thinks would be ok weighs more than what is actually permitted. I have read many materials from yeshivos and day schools warning us not to participate in this holiday for numerous reasons, including giving mixed messages to our children and the other Jewish children in our neighborhoods.
I imagine tossing candy to a youngster for Halloween may be a participative act that has some non-Jewish meaning like throwing salt over your shoulder or knocking on wood. Really, Halloween is not worth us having anything to do with.
Thanksgiving, too, has to be looked at carefully. There is a definite hashkofa on when/if someone should sit down to a dinner the same time each year to eat a turkey. Maybe someone knows more about that.
I vote it is absolutely wrong to give out candy.
I would also vote so, based on all of the S’varos of Akuperma earlier (which I was aware of, but he pointed them out well). However, what we do is not subject to vote, S’varos, or what we “feel” is right. We, as Torah Yidden, follow our Rabbonim and Gedolim. And it is documented that Rav Yaakov gave out candy. So as much as I might not like it, I would do so as well. To not do so would be creating my own religion. This is part of “Shviras HaMIddos”, to follow the Gedolim even when you personally think it would be better not to do so.
Now of course, everyone should ask their own Rov. And if there is a documented case of a Gadol B’davka not giving (such as Rav Moshe, Rav Ruderman, etc.), then I would feel good about not giving. But otherwise, I would just be picking and choosing what I like, and would be as guilty as those who don’t like other things about Yiddishkeit and dismiss them.
(obviously, this is different than an actual mitzva or Takonas Chazal, such as saying Shelo Asasni Isha or the type)
When BP was a mixed neighborhood, my parents handed out candy.
Now, halloween is a non-event in BP, so the question is moot.
gavra: All you have is some hearsay about Reb Yaakov. Document that allegation and I can cite you many many multiples of American Gedolei / Roshei HaYeshivos and Rabbonim who never did or would distribute candies to goyim on this day of Avoda Zora. So far you haven’t documented even one case.
According to the pagan/xtian/moslem/atheist/hindu handbook, exactly how does one go about “celebrating” this holiday? Is ringing the doorbells in the neighborhood chanting trick or treat included in the handbook of any religion?
gavra: All you have is some hearsay about Reb Yaakov.
It is in his artscroll biography.
the same place in their handbook that bringing a tree into your house and putting thin colored balls of glass on it, and hanging strings of little lightbulb on your house are found in their formal religious doctrines.
things develop, things stick.
On previous occasions, gavra, you’ve posited that Artscroll biographies are not necessarily accurate historical records.
Story of Rav Pam. Ive seen this story several places
<em > This Monday, October 31, is Halloween. The following inspiring story from Rabbi Akiva Males of Harrisburg, PA, demonstrates that if we are to be light unto the nations, then the nations must have a positive opinion of us. The behavior of Rav Pam and his wife, Rebbetzin Sarah, was because they clearly understood this.
Rabbi Males related:
On previous occasions, gavra, you’ve posited that Artscroll biographies are not necessarily accurate historical records.
LOL. And Lishitascha that they are?
Besides, go back & read my comments on the issue. I’ve never suggested that they lie, I’ve just said they only include what we can learn from our Gedolim. They are not “all inclusive”.
Shein: Still looking for a source, or do you concede?
Not everything that develops in a society is religious in nature. It doesnt mean we should do it, but doing it doesnt mean we are following the practice of another religion.
Off topic. How can I contact “mod-80” via email? If Mod-80 chooses to put an email address here great, if not, can he/she email me at my email address in my profile.
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