Smoking and Shiduchim

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  • #645177

    anon for this
    Participant

    Many posters have mentioned that smokers are more likely to become ill/ die early than non-smokers. It’s also true that if someone in the house smokes, children living in the home are more likely to suffer from asthma & other respiratory illnesses. This effect is mitigated, however, if the smoker never smokes in the house, car, or any other areas frequented by the children.

    #645180

    aussieboy
    Participant

    If you over eat you can have a heart attack

    If you are exposed to too much sun you can get skin cancer

    Why are these diffrent than smoking?

    #645181

    mdlevine
    Member

    aussieboy,

    cigarettes, when used as they were designed to be used (even in moderation), contribute directly to lung disease, heart disease, gum and other oral diseases.

    #645182

    mroosinsehry
    Member

    mdlevine: that is why it is assur to smoke “ushmartem es nafshoseichem”

    #645183

    mroosinsehry
    Member

    *** COMMENT DELETED***

    You are wrong

    Stop posting and reposting this comment

    #645184

    mroosinsehry
    Member

    i’m apoligize ( but it’s a matter of opinion

    #645186

    oomis
    Participant

    “If you over eat you can have a heart attack

    If you are exposed to too much sun you can get skin cancer

    Why are these diffrent than smoking? “

    True, all true, but when YOU overeat – I don’t get fat or have a heart attack! If you get skin cancer G-d forbid, it is not contagious to your kids (unless they are also with you in the sun without proper sunblock). If you truly do not realize how different this is from smoking, which physically affects not only you but everyone around you, then there is not much more that can be added which will help enlighten you.

    #645187

    anonymisss
    Participant

    btw, research studies indicate that smokers who quit under the age of thirty have a life expectancy equivalent to that of non-smokers.

    ~a~

    #645188

    kapusta
    Participant

    When someone is checking out a boy/girl wouldn’t they ask if there are any medical problems in the family as one of the first questions? Now why would you then date a guy who has a potentially life threatening medical problem waiting to happen?

    *kapusta*

    #645189

    oomis
    Participant

    When someone is checking out a boy/girl wouldn’t they ask if there are any medical problems in the family as one of the first questions? Now why would you then date a guy who has a potentially life threatening medical problem waiting to happen?

    Because unscrupulous shadchanim will sometimes avoid telling about the smoking issue, when asked outright if there are any medical factors, figuring that a potential problem (though extremely likely) is still “only” a potential problem.

    #645190

    kapusta
    Participant

    oomis, true, but that doesn’t make it right.

    *kapusta*

    #645191

    oomis
    Participant

    oomis, true, but that doesn’t make it right

    I totally agree. I don’t believe anything should be hidden, because when it comes out, as it inevitably must, there are real feelings and emotions that are being devastated.

    #645192

    Bemused
    Participant

    “We have given you a LOT of leeway with your posts in the other thread. Now you are just grandstanding and it is not viewed kindly.”

    I see Mod 39 is back; this has got her signature on it :).

    #645193

    tzippi
    Member

    Anonymiss says that people who quit young have a normal life expectancy. Excellent – if a young enough guy has been smoke-free for 5 years we might consider him for a potential son-in-law! I just want it to see it b’poal, not promised in theory.

    #645194

    anonymisss
    Participant

    tzippi, it’s not me who says it. There are research studies that prove this.

    ~a~

    #645195

    noitallmr
    Participant

    “I just want it to see it b’poal”

    Wow I never knew they accepted woman into Brisk???

    #645196

    GoldieLoxx
    Member

    c’mon girls, if he does not think his life is enough of a reason not to smoke why shoud he think your life is enough of a reason??

    #645197

    tzippi
    Member

    sorry, anonymiss, I should have phrased it differently but you do get my point πŸ˜‰

    #645198

    squeak
    Participant

    anonymisss

    Member

    btw, research studies indicate that smokers who quit under the age of thirty have a life expectancy equivalent to that of non-smokers.

    ~a~

    And other studies show that smokers who do not quit until age 72 also have a life expectancy equal to that of non-smokers.

    #645199

    anonymisss
    Participant

    GoldieLoxx

    Member

    c’mon girls, if he does not think his life is enough of a reason not to smoke why shoud he think your life is enough of a reason??

    c’mon, Goldie, do you never do things for other people that you wouldn’t bother doing for yourself? Not saying I agree or disagree, just that I don’t believe this is a valid argument. Sorry.

    ~a~

    #645200

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    BS”D (please don’t take this the wrong way)

    I am totally against smoking and have never smoked and can’t stand it (to the point where I will walk out of a room if I smell it on someone’s clothes), but I agree with the OP.

    It may be better to be married for the 30 years, if not longer, than to never get married at all. Its similar to people who marry men with physical defects (literally a Muckas Shichin), or women whose whole family had Yena Machla. In this case its even less of an issue, since smokers can quit. Sometimes you have to compromise, and although I and my family hope to never be in such a situation (Bezras Hashem), if the choice was marry a smoker or not marry at all, I would (probably) personally choose not (as I can’t stand the smell), but if you don’t mind it, you should at least consider it, especially if he is willing to agree to ground rules (such as no smoking in the house or around the children or yourself)

    Since we believe that each person has their Zivug, if he is a smoker, it may be your only chance. If you are an older single and want to get married, you should at least give it a try. πŸ™

    #645201

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    Everybody comes with the story of knowing someone who is 95 and they smoked their whole life! Well good for them!Maybe they have some special zechus going for them!But there have been plenty of people that have smoked aand have died!

    THe excuse of “I know plenty people who smoke and they are fine” is like saying

    I know someone who jumped off a bridge and didn’t die!Does that mean if a you(chas vashalom)decide to jump off a bridge then you won’t die?!

    If you have such a crazy attitude then why don’t you should eat a berry that you are not sure it’s posionous!The same way with ciggarets-except with a twist-every medical proffesional will tell you it killls people (Chas veshalom)

    Many Gedolim and big Rabbonim have stated that nowdays if you smoke you are over”Veneshmartem meoed es nafshoseichem”.

    We are not living in the middle ages over here!This is the 21st century and we all know the dangers of smoking!

    #645202

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    GAW, I generally agree with what you write, but here I disagree.

    I know (unfortunately) quite a few people who lost their spouses young and they agree that they are happy they married them. But why would you CHOOSE a situation that will endanger you, your children and extended family? A pregnant woman should not be around a smoker, even if they don’t smoke near the mother. Should a woman have to avoid her spouse for 9 months?

    Also, smoking is assur. Would you allow your daughter to go out with a guy who eats at McDonald’s once a month? Or, knowingly does something else wrong? Why are there “acceptable” sins we tolerate?

    #645203

    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    BasYisroel2-

    I know this is off the topic but I once told someone about the dangers of not securing her infant properly in a car seat.

    She said, “Oh come on, it can’t be dangerous, I always hold him when my husband drives and nothing ever happened”.

    #645204

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    SJSinNYC:

    That’s exactly my point. My answer to both questions (marry someone who has a significant chance of dying and someone who is doing something assur but willing to try to work on it) is yes, in certain cases. I adressed both of your points in my original post:

    1: The man will not smoke near his spouse or children (second hand smoke, let alone pregnancy)

    2: Sometime people marry those with known risks. We are talking about the woman who is (due to the shidduch crisis or other issues) at that point.

    #645205

    lkwdfellow
    Member

    Bottom line is that most Bochurim quit smoking either when they get enagaged or married. Don’t have the exact percentage, but I would say that probably close to 75% of yungerleit don’t smoke. If their wives insist they stop after their wedding, most yungerleit will quit then.

    #645206

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    GAW, sorry I wasn’t clear. The people I know were in situations that didn’t arise until AFTER marriage (wierd illnesses that cropped up).

    However, I think choosing someone who’s life path is destructive is not a good idea from the get go.

    A woman should not be around a smoker throughout her pregnancy. That includes doing his laundry or dealing with him at all. What a great year for shalom bayis.

    I feel bad for someone who is so desperate to get married that she would stoop to the level of dating a smoker. Would you advocate the same for an alcoholic?

    #645207

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    lkwdfellow- you said

    “Bottom line is that most Bochurim quit smoking either when they get enagaged or married. Don’t have the exact percentage, but I would say that probably close to 75% of yungerleit don’t smoke. If their wives insist they stop after their wedding, most yungerleit will quit then”

    I would like to know how long that will last!I know people who quit smokin but are now under alot of stress takes up cigaretts!

    My friend who just got marrried -her husband told her that most of the married men came to her husbands dirah to smoke-so their wives won’t know!

    #645208

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    SJSinNYC:

    Assuming the alcaholic is not abusive and will not damage anyone or thing, then yes.

    Bottom line is that they can make accommodations so that the smoking will not affect (healthwise) the rest of the family (as opposed to AIDS or the sort).

    And yes, “older” Shidduch dating only women these days are that desperate. If they are not, they may have given up and expect never to get married (which may be a better option, but the other should at least be considered). At least as far as Middos, Children, Hashkafa, etc. they will be happy.

    As yes, it makes me very sad (the shidduch reality) whenever I think about it.

    Its not even close to the best option, but it should at the very least be an option.

    #645209

    moish01
    Member

    BasYisroel2, do they shower and do laundry at her apartment too? it’s kinda hard to hide when you’re smoking. trust me – my mother can smell it hours later.

    #645210

    lkwdfellow
    Member

    BasYisroel2 – most wives who have a nose will ususally be able to smell smoke on their husbands. And most yungerleit whose wives want them to quit will be harrased to really stay off smokes. At the end of the day, I have seen even the heaviest smokers as Bochurim quit after their weddings.

    #645211

    tzippi
    Member

    GAW, maybe maybe i can get a smoker. But an alcoholic????

    #645212

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    tzippi:

    Note the disclaimer regarding alcoholics (Happy Drunks only). And when you’re desperate….

    #645215

    oomis
    Participant

    You know what the REAL bottom line is? The fact that there are people on this forum trying to defend the indefensible, and rationalizing that 30 years of marriage to someone (if you are lucky) is better than none, even if at the end of that 30 years, the spouse is dying an agonizingly painful, slow death, and his wife and children (who may or may not also have been physically affected by his filthy habit)have to watch it happen. That is a selfish and self-indulgent way of looking at this issue. It is not only about the smoker. And that is what the smoker refuses to face. Until it is too late, that is.

    #645216

    tzippi
    Member

    Oomis, and let’s not forget the happy alcoholic, who can’t keep a job, drive, and sets a beautiful example for his children just by his very existence.

    #645217

    oomis
    Participant

    Don’t even get me started on the alcoholic. The worst thing about an alcoholic is that he or she NEVER believes there is a drinking problem. The guy who cannot refrain from drinking while on a date, is the guy who potentially down the line may have a drinking problem, if not already. And most frum girls do not like to go out with guys who like to drink. I will take a drink at a simcha (always a pina colada), and I drink wine for kiddush – but I don’t go out to dinner and have a cocktail (not saying that’s a terrible aveira to do so, but it is not the norm for most frum people). While dating, for sure it looks bad that the guy has to have a drink, especially if he is driving (and before you say, oh it’s only one drink, what’s the big deal, why does he need the one drink while on a date?).

    #645218

    tzippi
    Member

    My sincere apologies to anyone dealing with a close alcoholic relative whom I might have hurt. I can’t begin to imagine the stress, and everything involved. Of course you still love them and treat them with dignity. I was referring here to someone signing up voluntarily for this, and I assume you understand where I was coming from.

    #645219

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    It’s amazing how everyone hocks against smoking (there’s maybe 1/2 an opinion here that’s pro smoking) and yet all the smokers get engaged. It doesn’t even DELAY their shidduchim. So what’s really going on here? Is everyone just talking, yet not acting upon their convictions?

    #645220

    moish01
    Member

    no, the smokers and pro smokers just didn’t comment on this thread πŸ˜‰

    now: who didn’t drop a comment here?? figure it out and you have it there πŸ˜‰

    oh and by the way, what’s the half opinion that’s pro?

    #645222

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    GAW feels it should at least be considered an option for older singles. That’s not a full yes- I consider it only half pro

    #645223

    moish01
    Member

    oh. how about if i post my opinion? just kidding – i would never πŸ˜‰

    #645224

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    lkwdfellow-

    I have no idea which heavy smokers that you know who quit-I am sure they exsist- however we have to deal with the population of-i have seen plenty of people -who promised their wives to quit are still smoking!

    #645225

    kapusta
    Participant

    hello, friend! welcome!

    *kapusta*

    #645226

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    Hello Kapusta my new friend where do you stand on this smoking issue?

    #645227

    kapusta
    Participant

    I stand sitting at my computer if you would like to know. πŸ˜‰

    Basically I wouldn’t date a smoking guy. I think its gross, and costs money. (and my family cant handle any smells, if something burns the windows and doors are open in seconds.)

    *kapusta*

    #645228

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    kapusta

    -LOL! I am right there with you on this issue!

    #645229

    kapusta
    Participant

    good, wheres aussies song?

    *kapusta*

    #645230

    anonymisss
    Participant

    forget the song, where’s aussie?

    ~a~

    #645232

    Jax
    Member

    i’m not a smoker, just feel there’s no point in this topic cause we’ll get no place!

    #645233

    kapusta
    Participant

    Jax, I was thinking the same thing!

    *kapusta*

Viewing 50 posts - 51 through 100 (of 229 total)
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