May 6, 2009 4:53 am at 4:53 am #645234
kapusta, i think they don’t let smokers post 😉
do you, moderator?May 6, 2009 5:00 am at 5:00 am #645236
moish, don’t ask or they’ll send ya packing, we really don’t want that.
~a~May 6, 2009 5:01 am at 5:01 am #645237beaconParticipant
…just feel there’s no point in this topic cause we’ll get no place!
Agreed. It will end up like most topics here, going round and around in circles and not getting anywhere.May 6, 2009 5:03 am at 5:03 am #645238
moish, ;), but even if they did (is there really something against them?) it wouldn’t matter the people who think its not an issue will think so, and the people who think it is, also think so.May 6, 2009 5:05 am at 5:05 am #645239YW Moderator-72Participant
moish01, there is a strict rule that prohibits smoking while in the coffee room and we discourage people from smoking outside the coffee room.May 6, 2009 5:07 am at 5:07 am #645240
i hear. well that’s generally not a problem because i can’t smoke indoors (i’d like to keep my head) and i don’t take the computer outside.May 6, 2009 5:09 am at 5:09 am #645241
hey i smoke and i know it’s stupid and unhealthy. i don’t know why i do it- it just makes me feel good.
and no, i’m not addicted. that i know.May 6, 2009 5:10 am at 5:10 am #645242May 6, 2009 5:13 am at 5:13 am #645243
I am NOT encouraging smoking, I think its one of the most disgusting things, but I will say that everyone needs an outlet. As far as outlets go, as bad as I think it is, I dont think its the worst.May 6, 2009 5:13 am at 5:13 am #645244
go ahead, kapusta. say it.May 6, 2009 5:15 am at 5:15 am #645246
kapusta, i don’t think i have any “inlets” to need so many outlets…May 6, 2009 5:16 am at 5:16 am #645248
kapusta, well said!
~a~May 6, 2009 5:18 am at 5:18 am #645250
you know yourself, a person is the only one that can judge himself, but at the same time keep in mind to be constantly growing.May 6, 2009 5:20 am at 5:20 am #645251
moish, dont flatter yourself. That post was directed at the general public, not at you.
~a~May 6, 2009 5:20 am at 5:20 am #645252
moish, I’m seriously considering that crack now. (look at random questions for more info)May 6, 2009 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #645253
I’m sorry you feel that way, but if your daughter C”V never gets married because she refuses to go out with her Bashert who is a smoker, are you going to kick yourself or not?
I don’t mean to bring this home at all, lets just say its a hypothetical.
I’m not Pro smoking or marrying smokers, I just feel desperate people can’t be choosy, and there are many things (this being one of them) that can be put aside if one really wants to get married taking into account the currect crisis.May 6, 2009 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #645254yankdownunderMember
gaw- We should not view people in Shiduch Parsha, who are unmarried as too picky and not flexible. Why are they not entitled to the same hapiness that you found? Smoking is a destructive and obnoxious habit, why would any body want to pass potential health problems to the next generation?May 6, 2009 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #645255squeakParticipant
Has anyone else seen all the new anti-smoking ads that show pictures of former smokers with amputated fingers? I’d love to see those make their way onto the yeshiva bulletin boards…..May 6, 2009 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #645256oomisParticipant
“I’m sorry you feel that way, but if your daughter C”V never gets married because she refuses to go out with her Bashert who is a smoker, are you going to kick yourself or not?I don’t mean to bring this home at all, lets just say its a hypothetical.I’m not Pro smoking or marrying smokers, I just feel desperate people can’t be choosy, and there are many things (this being one of them) that can be put aside if one really wants to get married taking into account the currect crisis. “
GAW, I often have agreed with many of your opinions. These, however, are not in that category. CH”VS that my two daughters remain single – they are amazing, loving, nurturing young women, who are going to make amazing wives and mothers B”EH. I would rather see them single than to marry a smoker, that is how much I hate smoking. We have a lot of asthma in our family, my husband, son, and married daughter, to name three who have this condition. A smoker would not be welcome in my home, as long as he has the stench of it on him, or a lit cigarette in his hand. My kids feel the same way. My daughters are very much eckled by the smell, even were it no a health issue. That is no way to build a joyful fulfilling marriage.
As to desperation – desperation is trying to do anything and everything to save the life of your loved one who has lung, lip, throat, or stomach cancer because of his filthy hab it, and knowing he is going to die an agonizing, ugly, death, drowning in his own lack of air. There are all sorts of crises in life. Taking a path that is almost SURE to lead to sitting shiva at a young age and possibly being left with young children (and THEN try to find a shidduch for that young widow, it is not as easy as you think, something I have observed over three decades, and especially if this woman married the smoker because nobody else was asking her)is not in my opinion the smartest thing to do. Crisis or no crisis, smokers should stop, especially if they want to continue to beleive that they are following the Torah in all other areas of their lives. This is a mitzvah directly from hashem, and not some chumrah that Lakewood decided was necessary in order to protect our neshamos. HASHEM wants us to protect our neshamos, and HE said so explicitly. If you can find me a heter for smoking,given what we know about its dangers today, then I will tell you that any Rov who gave such a heter should go back to the Beis Medrash and start learning again.May 6, 2009 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #645257
Your daughters are wonderful, and they deserve to marry a wonderful boy who is a non-smoker.
I agree with your statement about a smoker not being welcome in my home (as per my OP).
I’m not arguing that its assur and should stop (also as per my OP).
You answered the question posed: you would rather your daughters stay single forever than have them marry a smoker. I agree for myself (for the most part), but understand why others would argue.
Therefore, someone in that situation should at the very least consider it. The answer may still be no, but they may say yes, and who are we to judge or tell them what their decision should be? Shouldn’t they at the very least keep their options open?
P.S. Sad as it may be, but a woman with a family history of Yena Machla has similar issues. Would your answer be the same or since its not their fault (and they don’t smell) the answer would be different?May 6, 2009 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #645258JayMatt19Participant
>>I’m sorry you feel that way, but if your daughter C”V never gets married because she refuses to go out with her Bashert who is a smoker, are you going to kick yourself or not?<<
This is krum. This “bashert” card really gets to me. Should she not go out with a Mechallel Shabbos because maybe he is her bashert? How about a person with an abusive dominating personality?
Look up the gemarra in Sotah, there is Zivug Rishon and Zivug Sheini. Ask Da’as Torah, when one dates they need to conduct themselves in a manner as if they are looking for Zivug SheiniMay 6, 2009 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #645259tzippiMember
GAW, there are many things one can do to minimize one’s risk of cancer. Like living a healthy lifestyle. And when it comes to certain cancers, doctors may make some dramatic suggestions to reduce the risks. I won’t go into it. Suffice it to say, that would not be a problem for me.May 6, 2009 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #645260
Not the point. There are certain things its unquestionable not worth marrying for (e.g. an abusive drunk), and certain things that are a safek.May 6, 2009 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #645261
Fair enough, but many would argue for the same reasons as smoking. Am I to tell you “don’t consider it”, especially if you are the parent of a girl who hasn’t had a date in months?May 6, 2009 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #645262JayMatt19Participant
One person’s vadai is another person’s safek. There are plenty of people who will put smoker (regular or chain smoker if you want, we’ll exclude the casual smoker) in the same category. I feel you are wrong for trying to give them a guilt trip for it.May 6, 2009 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #645263
I am in the “would not” catagory, it just came after thinking first. That all I ask is to think if you are a safek or a vadai. If you are a vadai (like Oomis or myself) then for sure not, but if you are a safek, you should consider it.
C”V I want to force anyone to go out, just force them to think.May 6, 2009 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #645264oomisParticipant
GAW, you asked me another very cogent and relevant question – what if it was “Yena MAchla? (why are we afraid to say cancer?). think that to be perfectly honest, and I always do try to be – that depending on the cancer, and the family history of it, I would be very much frightended. BUT – there are screening procedures, and preventive measures that can lessen the odds of the person contracting the disease, or at least being able to diagnose and treat it early enough for it to not cause the same absolutely inevitable sorrow that smoking does. Let’s say that a young woman has a history of breast cancer in the family. Not her mother or grandmother, but maybe an aunt. I would not automatically have a concern the way I would were it to be that her grandmother, mother, aunt, and sister all had it, and maybe died from it. If my son were to meet such a girl, I would definitely worry about the latter situation. Would I stop the shidduch from going forward? I cannot be sure. I think maybe yes, but I cannot say that for a certainty. It is a possibility that the girl could develop it some day, but with good health care, proper early screening and treatment, it does not have to be a death sentence these days. Unlike Lung cancer, emphsyema and stomach cancer, breast cancer has a better remission rate.
As to your mention of my daughters – thank you very much. They DO deserve to marry wonderful guys (who are non-smokers). If you knew them, you would know how really true that statement is. So send good thoughts their way, and who knows… maybe I will have good news to report one of these months.May 6, 2009 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #645265
another firm and close-minded comment by oomis… just kidding- you don’t have to have me as a son-in-law (or should i say grandson-in-law?) if you don’t want to 😉May 6, 2009 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #645266
Bezras Hashem.May 6, 2009 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #645267tzippiMember
My daughter doesn’t want to go out with a smoker. She didn’t want to a few months ago, she doesn’t want to now. Luckily we’re on the same page. I wouldn’t try to persuade her to go out with ANYONE who doesn’t have the basic, bottom line qualifications that are important for her. (non smoker is on her list.)May 7, 2009 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #645268
Just curious…. Everyone here seems to be against smoking. We all agree that it’s unhealthy & smells bad, etc. Now, here’s the question: Your daughter gets engaged to a great boy from a great family. Everything is wonderful. The day after the vort you find out that the boy is a smoker. You did your research before, but never found this out. Now, do you break the shidduch over this???May 7, 2009 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #645269
At that point, its not my choice.May 7, 2009 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #645270areivimzehlazehParticipant
lkwdfellow- the only reason I wouldn’t answer your question is because it sounds like a trap. Are you trying to prove a point that at the end of the day… smoking is not the end of the world??May 7, 2009 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #645271
areivim-you didn’t say yes or no, but you answered the question.
~a~May 7, 2009 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #645272
gavra_at_work – it is still your choice. You can still break the shidduch. Unless you don’t really think it’s so bad…..
areivimzehlazeh – I didn’t say it’s not the end of the world. I just am pointing out that although it’s harmful, you aren’t breaking a shidduch over it. So, obviously it’s not as terrible as everyone is making it……May 8, 2009 12:36 am at 12:36 am #645273
I wouldn’t and don’t go out with a boy who smokes. I think it’s disgusting. For all those who say that it’s almost impossible to find a boy who doesn’t or didn’t smoke it’s not true. My brothers and all my brother’s-in-law (I have a few) and my father never smoked in their whole lives and neither will my future chasson. It’s not an impossible thing to ask for.
lkwdfellow- how is it possible not to find out? all you have to do is ask his friends or send someone to check.May 8, 2009 1:32 am at 1:32 am #645274
postsemgirl – people lie. You can ask, but people don’t always say the truth. So you may not find out if a bochur really smokes.
By the way, chances are between all the relatives you listed – some may have actually smoked…… although they may tell you they never did. Don’t be so sure….May 8, 2009 1:41 am at 1:41 am #645275
lkwdfellow, thats why its better to find your own references. (maybe a neighbor, co-worker, guy in the same yeshiva…) You can avoid problems like this.May 8, 2009 2:00 am at 2:00 am #645276
lkwdfellow- my father and brothers have asthma so they don’t smoke. and my brothers in law each have family members who died from smoking so they didn’t. Anyway they are married and told their wives that they never had a period in their lives where they smoked. Maybe they smoked once or twice on purim or something but they didn’t smoke as an addiction. YES IT IS POSSIBLE.
As Kapusta said you can find out these things.May 8, 2009 2:00 am at 2:00 am #645277
ames – maybe it never came up. It’s possible. I never said it’s a normal case. Just a “what if” kind of of situation.
kapusta – you are right, it is better to use your own refs. But, let’s say you don’t know anyone who knows him. And the “spy” you sent to check him out, maybe he never saw him smoking. What are you gonna do – hire a private detective to follow him 24/6?May 8, 2009 2:02 am at 2:02 am #645278BasYisroel2Participant
with the case you mentioned above-I feel that if they found out that he has been smoking he will have to PROMISE to his kallah that he will quit otherwise..May 8, 2009 2:12 am at 2:12 am #645279
ames, I know someone who was dating for a while (more than 6 weeks) and toward the end (they did not get engaged) it came out that the girl was on medication for something presented as a very minor issue. I think that too is not fair, why should it take so long? Dont most rabbanim say if there is a serious medical problem, it should be told after the third date (or so)?May 8, 2009 2:13 am at 2:13 am #645280
I guess you just have to daven that people are moral enough not to lie to you.May 8, 2009 2:17 am at 2:17 am #645281an open bookParticipantMay 8, 2009 2:17 am at 2:17 am #645282
kapusta, i know a story like that, too. Except that it didnt’ come out til after the wedding. Unfortunately, they separated two weeks later and are now divorced.
What’s the point? Everything comes out in the end. Don’t parents want their kids to be happy LONG TERM? Not just for a week, a month, or even a year? I don’t understand why people hide things.
~a~May 8, 2009 2:21 am at 2:21 am #645283
aob- lkwdfellow is saying that even if it did come up maybe he would lie about it.May 8, 2009 2:22 am at 2:22 am #645284May 8, 2009 2:28 am at 2:28 am #645285
anonymisss, its funny because with that shidduch there probably was something funny going on, in the beginning her parents were worried about something (potential for a major issue) and then at the end they were ok with it going along. why?
I know a story where a couple was dating and everything was fine, AT the wedding, her father noticed that he was acting weird. They got divorced immediately after.May 8, 2009 2:31 am at 2:31 am #645286
When something is important to you, you will make sure that it “comes up.” I guess if smoking is somthing important to you it will come up.May 8, 2009 2:31 am at 2:31 am #645287
Bottom line, everyone is ducking the question. If you are already engaged – you aren’t breaking a shidduch over smoking. So don’t easily dismiss a shidduch just bcause the guy smokes…
And, no, I don’t smoke!
- The topic ‘Smoking and Shiduchim’ is closed to new replies.