October 20, 2009 1:54 am at 1:54 am #590622
I live in Israel and its very common place to see young and old people alike entrenched in the smoking habit. I find this rather disturbing. Why do people want to guarrantee themselves an early death? I understand smoking is an addiction and very hard to overcome, but aren’t people supposed to be misgaber on their desires and listen to Hashem who tells us to take care of our bodies? By smoking all one is doing is succumbing to peer pressure and leeching his body of the ability to give one a vital element-AIR. Are the few seconds or hours of enjoyment really worth the consequences?October 20, 2009 3:24 am at 3:24 am #670586kapustaParticipant
simplydevo, I was actually gonna bring up a topic about smoking and you beat me to it. I agree with you, and I think smoking is an unhealthy, disgusting habit thats a big waste of money. At the same time I do understand that everyone needs their outlet and if someone makes the choice to start smoking then its their choice and they have to face any consequences.
My question is why does it have to be done in public? If you’re so desperate, smoke in front of your house!!! Why, when someone goes on a “main street” (like ave J, ave M…) does there have to be a whole group of people standing outside stores and smoking? A. Why do I have to look at people smoking, its not a very nice sight. B. if you want to smoke, then dont make breathe in all the smoke? I never asked for it.October 20, 2009 3:39 am at 3:39 am #670587
In America, smoking has become rare. I just spent a few weeks in Israel, and boy, did I notice the difference. So many people smoke, particularly young girls. Oy.
In America, the slow abolition of smoking has been the results of three or four decades of publich health campaigns, public service announcements, dire warnings everywhere, and massive education in the schools.
In the 60’s, I can remember that most of the adults smoked. They smoked everywhere, even in hospital rooms. It was considered rude to comment on their smoking.
Now that’s all changed, for the better. I hope Israelis can learn the lessons we learned in America faster, but Moses did have to wander in the desert for 40 years waiting for the Israelites to lose their slave mentalities, before entering the Holy Land. Attitudes are slow to change.October 20, 2009 3:47 am at 3:47 am #670588JosephParticipant
No.October 20, 2009 4:21 am at 4:21 am #670589tamazaballMember
i guess smoking is addicting and even if they try to quit they cant. its disgusting a person should know. eizeh ha gibor ha kobesh et yitzro.October 20, 2009 4:26 am at 4:26 am #670590
B”H my husband and I don’t smoke. But people should be very aware of its dangers.October 20, 2009 4:38 am at 4:38 am #670591pookieMember
unfortunately even in america underage smoking is a huge problem,I think the reason they smoke is purely peer pressure.October 20, 2009 5:51 am at 5:51 am #670592
Kaputsa,I’m glad to hear that other people are concerned about this issue like I am. I agree that people do have the need of an “outlet”, but I’m sure that there are other healthier and safer types of outlets. We all use them and they aren’t totally dangerous or disgusting. My question is what causes a person to start to smoke? Besides for being in a bad situation and being exposed to harmful things, how can we let so many people ruin thier lives and by so doing implying that its o.k. to smoke?
Yes people do have free choice and they definately have to accept the consequences, but who is guiding these souls and telling them what to use as a better outlet? Why does human society expect people to know everything of life from the minute they were born? We are here to help these people and by ignoring the issue or only thinking of how bad it is for you (which it is) is not (in my opion)the most appropriate or effective way to deal with this problem.October 20, 2009 5:54 am at 5:54 am #670593mazcaMember
Onces I was in Mount Sinai hospital in New York and I went to the room where sick people were having radiation and I met this woman that was very sick they had taken off her throat because of the cigarrette her eye was also affected from the smoke and probably her lips, nebaj very , very sick and guess what? she was still smoking, true story I saw it with my own eyes. Scary isnt it? Defintely she was killing herself.October 20, 2009 5:59 am at 5:59 am #670594
Glad to hear it. Its nice to know that America has done something right for its citizens even if this development has only come forth over the past few years.
About the adults smoking: and you wonder why we’ve seen such a breakdown in the younger society? As I said before: this had to have started somewhere it didn’t just happen over night. So why are we blaming the kids that they are causing a major issue and that its blown out of proportion in Israel? Hopefully we’ll see more success and awareness on the Israeli front so we’ll be able to abolish smoking in Israel just like in America.October 20, 2009 11:23 am at 11:23 am #670595Be HappyParticipant
There is no logical reaon to smoke. If you can’t crack the habit get expert help. Anyone who smokes is a MURDERER.October 20, 2009 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #670596Daniel BreslauerMember
It is a very serious problem. I always look at smoking bochurim with a very disapproving look.
Smoking is killing yourself and others.
As for those who some on Yom Tov, may Hashem have rachmonus on them.October 20, 2009 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #670597
Mazca, I think there’s something called Berger’s syndrome, a horrible condition smokers can face that just shows how addictive this is.
That smoking is considered an outlet for a boys is a travesty that should be countered with as much energy and vocals as the age gap. If our boys need outlets, or show latent talent, let’s give them music, shop, etc. Now there’s this condescending attitude, nebach, your son NEEDS that mishegas. That mishegas can be valuable tools for life (e.g. shop) or vehicles of great chesed (e.g. music in nursing homes, etc.)October 20, 2009 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #670598
In Israel, boys and girls as young as ten, “openly” smoke more than the children in America. That is because there are no consequences for the children smoking in Israel, as there are in America. Whenever I’m in Israel, and I see a kid smoking a cigarette, I snatch it out of his/her mouth. At that age, giving them a pep talk isn’t enough to get their attention. Blatantly taking control of the situation is the only way to at least make some kind of dent.October 20, 2009 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #670599
The problem is frum boys and girls don’t know what it taste like to kiss a smoker. If they did, they wouldn’t marry one. And if smoking meant you couldn’t get married, you probably wouldn’t smoke.
Of course, if we started allowing kissing, it would probably lead to mixed dancing.October 20, 2009 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #670600
Haifagirl, I don’t think that’s the problem. The girls know enough about smoking – like lung cancer, second hand smoke issues for kids, etc. – to avoid smokers. The problem is the desperation being fomented that makes girls still opt to marry a smoker if it means getting married to SOMEONE and avoid being a statistic.October 20, 2009 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #670601pushtMember
I have my own way of letting smokers know that I disapprove, I cough and walk around them in a VERY round about way.I know it sounds very rudeOctober 20, 2009 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #670602
In America, at least, I believe that just about everyone who can give up smoking already has.
It’s my observation that some people can give it up relatively easily, while others have a real addiction problem, as severe as any drug addiction.
I think those who could give it up, have already given it up. The others, well, I think they may deserve our sympathy, help and prayers, rather than constant reminders that smoking is bad for them.October 20, 2009 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #670603
Ronrsr: I agree. When I see kids who are starting to smoke, I think, fools, if only the people who could help them fill the void would, etc. but I only have rachmanus for confirmed somokers.
EDITED in blueOctober 20, 2009 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #670604
yes, children just starting out on this noxious habit are a different story. They should know better, and it is probably our duty to tell them so.
I know some people who have such a strong addiction, that even the powerful drugs they use to overcome smoking addiction today don’t help much. It’s not because they’re weak-willed, either, there is something that is physiologically different about them. I am grateful that I have never smoked, and I have been able to give up other bad habits with relative ease, but I realize, from experience, that it is not the same for some others.October 20, 2009 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #670605
Thanks, mod. I’m heartened to see how careful you are with clean lashon. May I say this in my defense, in case people are wondering? It was a five letter word for fool, ixxxt.October 20, 2009 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #670606aaryd621Participant
it’s none of your business if someone is smoking in public it’s their rightOctober 20, 2009 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #670607October 20, 2009 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #670608aaryd621Participant
well theres no point of complaing because its never going to stopOctober 20, 2009 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #670609NY MomMember
As long as people think that it is “cool” and want to try it, it won’t stop. My husband and I have tried to instill a certain amount of disgust towards smoking in our children. (I didn’t say “smokers”.) We make sure they know our feelings about it and we reinforce this repeatedly.October 21, 2009 3:00 am at 3:00 am #670610mazcaMember
Once my son got a malboro beisball hat in the mail when he was 14 I threw it in the garbage before he saw it. He later told me he had accumulated cigarrete boxes from his friends in yeshiva to get it. ?/ Well BH he doesnt smoke.October 21, 2009 3:48 am at 3:48 am #670611JosephParticipant
Why would anyone even start smoking today?October 21, 2009 3:58 am at 3:58 am #670612tamazaballMember
mazca ha thats funnyOctober 21, 2009 5:54 am at 5:54 am #670613yankdownunderMember
I think it is the responsibility of the Gadolim and the RH. to tell Bochurim not to start. If they are smoking, start a smoking clinic to help the smokers quit. Alternatively the Doctors hopefully someone like an Oconologist could give a Musar Shmuz on the dangers involved. If anyone knows a Bochur smoking say tehilim (for him) and ask Hashem for help and guidance.October 21, 2009 11:38 am at 11:38 am #670614rwndk1Member
I will never forget, one Purim my father (we live in Jerusalem) saw a bunch of boys smoking, he took one out of a kids’ mouth said “venafoch hu” and made like he was going to put the lit side in his mouth. Seriously speaking, unfortunately Yeshiva’s see nothing wrong with it. Forget about the health issues, it is rude to smell up a room and it is certainly not classy. The finest borsalino will not make up for how disgusting you look when you smoke. If my parents were to hear about a shidduch with a guy who smokes, they would not listen to anything else – good bye.October 21, 2009 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #670615
Yankdownunder that is a good idea. They should also really scare the socks of the young guys.October 21, 2009 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #670616truthsharerMember
Joseph, you ask why anyone would start smoking.
The answer is that they see their rebbeim and rosh yeshivahs smoking.October 21, 2009 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #670617
aaryd621, Yes, as Americans, we have many “rights.” But the moment those “rights” impede other peoples wellbeing, we give up that “right.” Freedom of speech is a “right” according to the First Amendment, but that privilege is soon taken away, the moment you use that right to give a hate speech aimed at a group of people.
Public smoking, causes second hand smoking diseases, which in some ways is like committing murder. Think about those you are hurting. C’V a pregnant woman’s unborn baby. A parent, a child, a friend, or perhaps, one of your loved ones.October 21, 2009 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #670618
yoshi: Sorry to be technical here, but is freedom of speech a “right” or a “privilege”? It can’t be both. A right is something that cannot be taken away. And so far, hate speech has not been banned in America.
But you are right about public smoking. That does affect other people. Unfortunately, many state and local governments have already gone too far, regulating smoking on private property.October 21, 2009 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #670619truthsharerMember
FOS is a right, but the right only extends so far. You can’t yell FIRE in a theater.October 21, 2009 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #670620
Absolutely. But that’s not what yoshi said. He said “hate speech.” Yelling fire in a theater is not hate speech.October 22, 2009 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #670621
Sorry about all the misunderstandings regarding my previous post. I’d like to clarify my objective if I may. “Hate Speech,” as in the manner of a direct violent verbal/visual assault against someone(s), not in a general way of speaking.
It’s possible to be defined as both a right and privilege. It is a right if we respect and uphold the letter of the law, and not look for loopholes. It becomes a privilege when people abuse those rights, and therefore are in danger of having it taken away from them. It is referred to as the Bill of “Rights.” As Americans, we posses the “right,” to perform specific acts, which cannot be fringed upon by our government because we are protected by the Bill of Rights. But, there are various occasions, where the government can take away those rights if they are abused in specific situations.
Smoking is one of those “rights” which can be accosting others. Which is why different parts of the country are banning such acts in specific areas.October 22, 2009 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #670622
I don’t know of any place in the U.S. where just saying things is a crime. I’m not saying such a law doesn’t exist, just that I don’t know of one. If you do, please specify.
I think what you are saying is your right to extend your arm stops at my nose.
People do have a right to smoke. People also have a right to choose what behavior is appropriate or inappropriate on their property.
The problem with smoking bans is that governments have now declared what behavior is appropriate on private property.
I am not a smoker. I am just a lover of the Constitution and of liberty.October 23, 2009 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #670623
When someone starts spewing hate towards another person, and if his “freedom of speech,” has the potential to instigate a riot, or other dangers towards others, he has “overstepped” the boundaries of that right.
– That is what I was trying to get across, when I was referring to the act of abusing the Bill of Rights. A “hate speech” has it’s limitations.October 24, 2009 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #670624
None of those things mentioned constitute a hate crime as currently defined. Threatening another person is called assault. Instigating a riot is just that. I’m not sure about “other dangers toward others.” I have no idea what that means. How are my words posing a danger to someone else.
Anyway, this is really off topic. If you want to discuss the Bill of Rights, or any other political topic, I’ll be happy to join you in another thread.October 27, 2009 5:56 am at 5:56 am #670625bein_hasdorimParticipant
Oy Vey! Don’t get me started. Besides the Fact that is is an Issur D’Oiraisho,
it has become so, that when i ask people not to smoke near me “can ya please take it outside” I get looked at as if I fell from the moon! Don’t these morons understand
that they are causing terrible damage to their lungs with every puff? How about the people who smoke in their house next to their little defenseless children.
Do they know that If they have problems later C”V, that they are to blame?
What happened to V’ohavtoh L’reiacho Komoicho? If you smoke next to someone who doesnt
& it annoys him, you are being oiver! Muliple Issurim!
HB”H created lungs & designed them to take in the purest of gases one that is totally clear & clean. So here comes a person who is so thick, he decides let me inhale the opposite of clean clear air, something dark & filthy, filled with carcinogens, poisons, & toxic metals for pleasure!!?October 27, 2009 6:01 am at 6:01 am #670626bein_hasdorimParticipant
(Mods I know this is megillah, but it is L’toyeles Horabim)
Here is list of things found in cigarettes:
Tobacco-specific N-nitrosamines (TSNAs) are known to be some of the most potent carcinogens present in smokeless tobacco, snuff and tobacco smoke.
Benzene found in pesticides and gasoline. It is present in high levels in cigarette smoke and accounts for half of all human exposure to this hazardous chemical.
Pesticides are used on our lawns and gardens, and inhaled into our lungs via cigarette smoke.
Formaldehyde; is a chemical used to preserve dead bodies, and is responsible for some of the nose, throat and eye irritation smokers experience when breathing in cigarette smoke.
Toxic Metals: Arsenic,Commonly used in rat poison, arsenic finds its way into cigarette smoke through some of the pesticides that are used in tobacco farming.
Cadmium; is a toxic heavy metal that is used in batteries. Smokers typically have twice as much cadmium in their bodies as nonsmokers.
Radioactive Toxic Metals
Lead-210 (Pb-210) and polonium-210 (Po-210) are poisonous.
Poisons; Science has discovered approximately 200 poisonous gases in cigarette smoke.
Ammonia; is also used to boost the impact of nicotine in manufactured cigarettes.
Carbon Monoxide; is present in car exhaust and is lethal in very large amounts. Cigarette smoke can contain high levels of carbon monoxide.
Hydrogen Cyanide; was used to kill people in the gas chambers in Nazi Germany during World War II. It can be found in cigarette smoke.
Nicotine; is a poison used in pesticides and is the addictive element in cigarettes.October 28, 2009 4:30 am at 4:30 am #670628HealthParticipant
What I don’t understand even if it’s mutter, why don’t they try and stop and prolong their life? Nowadays we have meds and therapy that help you stop. What a waste of their lives.October 28, 2009 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #670629
An individual can quit only when they really “Want” to quit. Even with the Nicotine Patch, Nicotine Gum, Zyban, etc. doesn’t help. If they don’t have the desire to quit smoking, then trying to quit will most likely fail them. Sometimes life does force them to quit (shidduch, baby, family, friend, job, health). But if they aren’t careful, they can C’V fall right back into this dangerous habit. I’m not talking from hearsay, or from what I’ve read, this all comes from experience.October 28, 2009 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #670630stonerMember
if you have never been a smoker or struggled with overcoming an addiction you have no right to criticize those that are presently struggling.October 28, 2009 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #670631NY MomMember
Yoshi, you are so right! I have a relative who smoked for 40 years or so. Sometimes when I would see him, I would tease him, warn him, cajole, etc. about his smoking. His answer was always, “Leave me alone! It’s my life and I want to enjoy it!”
I never thought that he would EVER stop smoking.
Well, he developed a cough that wouldn’t go away, and he went to he doctor. The doctor warned him he had better quit smoking for the sake of his health. The warning and that cough scared him. And he quit! I couldn’t believe it!
You know, years later he began to have heart trouble. His doctor told him that it was a good thing that he quit smoking, because he would be in much worse shape if he were still smoking.
So you are totally correct. If the person doesn’t really want to do it, nothing will help. Only when a person really makes up his mind to quit, will he be able to overcome it.October 29, 2009 1:12 am at 1:12 am #670632ambushParticipant
I now feel tense every time i hear the word “smoking”.
THROW IT AWAY FOR GOOD!
I was recently standing at a bus stop, and noticed a boy, about 8 years old, dragging something as unobtrusively as possible, on the ground, with his foot.
I looked down, and saw that he was rolling two cigarettes (used) on the floor, with his shoe, obviously going somewhere.
I was curious to see what he was doing, as I didn’t really think an 8 year old was cleaning up the sidewalk…
And then i saw him reach a small wall sign where it’s possible to hide behind, pick up the cigarette, AND TRY TO SMOKE!
Ribbono Shel Olam, he’s eight years old!
A minute later, I see he’s hanging around a yungerman, whose just standing there, waiting for the bus. And then I see why. He’s also smoking. And he’s waiting for the young man to drop it on the floor so he can have a puff. The little boy also keeps looking at these 2 woman police men. They too are smoking. He’s waiting for theirs, too.
He’s just waiting for them to innocently drop it on the floor when they are done, so that he too can feel cool, and “take a smoke”.
If you would like to kill yourself, I can’t stop you.
But must you provoke our children too?
I’m sorry if this came about a little too strong, but i saw a little boy smoking because he was trying to copy YOU. He’s watching you. He’s waiting for your cigarette so he can do it too…October 29, 2009 2:58 am at 2:58 am #670633HealthParticipant
You need to have the therapy along with the drugs in order for it to work.October 31, 2009 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #670634
My friend from the states says it disturbs her immensely to see young men who are destroying their lives with smoking. Not just any men, Bachurim! Men who are supposedly Bnei Torah, who in essence represent G-d, who we would hope would have their priorities straight! How painful to watch! Yes, it’s understandable that peer pressure exists in a Yeshiva Bachur’s circles, but such destructive peer pressure?October 31, 2009 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #670635
I didn’t know that non-smokers are not allowed to have opinions on this topic. It seems like if you’re not a smoker than you have no right to try and help those people who can’t counsel themselves to not to smoke. There are ppl that don’t have the will power to stay away from bad influences, but is it o.k to tell ppl that care abot their friends that because they have no experience in the issue that they’re not allowed to try and help a lost jew? Who put you in charge of the rules on smoking ettiquite? Are there any answers to this “old” trend?
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