Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

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  • #1632023

    Logical mom
    Participant

    Doomsday- U are the most knowledgeable on ywn so let me ask u ive been searching but I’m sure u know the answer. Recently they are saying (drs quoting cdc, Wikipedia etc ) that measles kills 1 in 1,000. Ive heard from humphries that death rate bef vaccine was roughly 2 in a million. Where is each side getting their facts and how can it be proven??
    Really would appreciate a response
    Thank u

    #1632006

    Doing my best
    Participant

    OK Doomsday,
    So really 1 in 7777 died as per the CDC on a different link.
    “In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.”

    However, the statisistics still point in my favor.

    HRSA .GOV ON VACCINE INJURIES
    “How many petitions have been awarded compensation?
    According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2016 over 3.1 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 5,564 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 3,773 were compensated. THIS MEANS FOR EVERY 1 MILLION DOSES OF VACCINE THAT WERE DISTRIBUTED, 1 INDIVIDUAL WAS COMPENSATED.”
    So, let’s calculate. We now have a 0.07 chance of dying if we don’t vaccinate and a .00001 chance of vaccine injury if we vaccinate.
    Not vaccinating is still not worth it.
    I’m still right, so you have to prove me wrong or you lose.

    “I WON THE DEBATE UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE THAT CDC DIDN’T LIE WHEN IT SAYS 1:1,000 DIE OF MEASLES!”
    Why do i have to prove CDC didn’t lie?
    The debate is over whether to vaccinate.

    #1632039

    doomsday
    Participant

    CDC AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES ARE LYING THAT MEASLES KILLS 1:1,000.
    From CDC’s own website:
    “In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died,”
    If 3-4 MILLION got measles and 1:1,000 die then 3,000-4,000 should have died. But CDC estimates
    that 400-500 died – about 10x less then CDC and Pharmaceutical companies LIE about.

    DID YOU SEE THAT 2SCENTS SAID THAT SHE DOESN’T HAVE TO PROVE THAT CDC DOESN’T LIE???
    BUT WE SHOULD TRUST CDC AND BLINDLY OBEY!!!

     

    Please stop yelling.

    #1632060

    Health
    Participant

    Mod -“He’s yelling because he’s scared that his sheep (Anti-vaxxers) will start seeing the truth from the CR about the vaxx issue. These guys have a lot of time & money invested promoting the alternative practice of medicine.

    #1632064

    Health
    Participant

    Doomsday = Joseph? Mods – yes or no?

    I doubt it. -100

    #1632105

    truthishidden
    Participant

    To Doing my best
    So you admit that the CDC was lying it can’t be both 1 in 7777 and 1 in 1000.
    So all the other times we do trust the CDC?

    #1632072

    Health
    Participant

    Doomsday -“Before the measles vaccination program started in 1963, an estimated 3 to 4 million people got measles each year in the United States. Of these, approximately 500,000 cases were reported each year to CDC; of these, 400 to 500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 developed encephalitis (brain swelling) from measles.”
    “If 3-4 MILLION got measles and 1:1,000 die then 3,000-4,000 should have died.”

    Your reading comprehension is so Poor! Did you even finish High School?
    Go back and look at the CDC Website again. When the CDC Wrote 1 out of a thousand die – that’s from the 80’s till Now!

    #1632119

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The two numbers, as Health points out, aren’t contradictory. Besides the numbers being from different decades, let’s simply look at the CDC statement again:

    “In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.”

    So an estimated 500 people died among the reported cases, not among the total estimated 3 to 4 million.

    The total estimated cases and the total reported cases are two totally different numbers. To figure out the percentage, you need to use the number of reported cases of measles, not the total estimated cases, which assume many unreported cases.

    The question is how many reported cases there were.

    Guess what, on a different part of the CDC website, they write there were 500,000 reported cases. 500 deaths would be 1 in 1000.

    Doomsday, you’re either lying by covering up the inconvenient facts, or more likely, you’ve been had by the anti vax websites and groups.

    Either way, the whole premise of your “the CDC is lying” claim is totally false.

    #1632389

    doomsday
    Participant

    DaasYochid: So an estimated 500 people died among the reported cases, not among the total estimated 3 to 4 million.

    Doomsday: Nice Try. CDC and Merck LIED! CAUSE OF DEATH must be written on ALL Death Certificates.
    So if 4,000 people died from Measles, all those deaths would be recorded on the Death Certificates
    i.e. ALL Measles Deaths were reported.
    So at most 500 people died from measles out 3-4 MILLION. And the reason most measles cases are unreported is because measles was considered SO HARMLESS that most mothers didn’t even take child to the doctor – children recovered just fine with bedrest and fluids.

    Folks, do you see how PROVAXERS LIE to cover up for CDC and Vaccine Makers???
    DoingMyBest admitted that CDC and Merck LIED but then asked Why does DMB have to prove that
    CDC and Merck didn’t lie to win the debate? The debate isn’t about whether CDC lies but about vaccines!
    Ummm if CDC and Merck LIE to the public, how can we trust them when they say vaccines are safe???
    Health claims my reading comprehension is poor – I scored in top 1% is USA for reading comprehension
    on my GRE after getting my Masters Degree.

    #1632411

    2scents
    Participant

    From doosday,
    “DID YOU SEE THAT 2SCENTS SAID THAT SHE DOESN’T HAVE TO PROVE THAT CDC DOESN’T LIE???
    BUT WE SHOULD TRUST CDC AND BLINDLY OBEY!!!”

    I haven’t had a chance to follow up on this thread for a short while, I do not recall saying something like that, if, like your other assertions you twisted this out of my words and are mispresenting what I stated, I am still around and would like to let you know that this is not what I meant, and probably never even wrote this.

    Also, how would you know that I am a she (or a he)?

    I believe that you are referring to the post that I explained to you that the comment you noted about the statistic of deaths in measles patients do not line up with what the CDC wrote. (as is this is a big deal).

    What I wrote to you, is that I merely posted what is printed on the MMR insert, you probably never saw that insert only posted it from an anti-vaccine site, which probably leads to your pilpul about the CDC lying.

    Clarity and facts are not your thing, I get it. However, the twisting and lomdus that you pull together only to justify the belief of yours, despite every single piece of garbage data you present gest shown to be inaccurate or mispresented do not impress the rest of us.

    #1632414

    2scents
    Participant

    doomsday,

    Again you imply there is a debate and that the CDC lied, there is no debate and not sure where lying comes into the picture, it is the facts that matter.

    The fact is, there are multiple independent studies that clearly have proven there is no link between vaccines and autism.

    There is no study that was able to link autism to vaccines, other than the now known fraudulent study by Andrew Wakefield.

    The fact that parents who decided to blame the vaccines for their child’s diagnosis feel strongly about this, does not mean that this is the fact, the evidence clearly shows that this is not the case.

    Anecdotally, there are families that stopped vaccinating after one or more of their children were diagnosed with autism, yet they had more children with autism. If this is not genetics, what else is it?

    Among one of your comments you implied that vaccines do not really work, this is a ridiculous comment and if that were the case would be easy to study this.
    – Almost all cases of measles in the current outbreak were among non-vaccinated people.
    – The outbreak is focused in the Jewish community (viruses don’t discriminate).
    – Vaccinated individuals (friends and care providers) have not gotten the virus.

    #1632419

    2scents
    Participant

    Doomsday,

    You need to prove the theory that MMR vaccine causes encephalitis.

    You need to prove that encephalitis causes autism.

    No theories please, will not respond to your theories.

    For all I know, you are being paid billions of dollars by the alternative medical community, (you claim that most are free, that’s bogus and you know it, there is no such thing as a single visit, and you must buy their remedies, every ‘patient’ is a lifelong money making piggy bank).
    Yet this is a theory and silly. So let’s focus on the facts (for a change).

    #1632439

    kavod Habriot
    Participant

    As a parent it should be my decision and my decision only whether or not I am willing to take the risks with the bodies of my children. After all, I brought them into the world and I am responsible for their wellbeing. If a vaccine permanently damages my children I am responsible for taking care of them for the rest of their life, and therefore it should be my choice and not a State mandate! My decision to protect my children from the harm of vaccination should not be a determining factor of my child’s ability to attend school with other kids. Healthy children who are not infected with disease should not be discriminated against. The companies that produce these vaccines are criminal, and I do not trust them with my children’s health. Mandating and forcing the public to participate in vaccination violates some of the core rights we have as human beings. It violates the Constitution of the United States. Therefore, it is imperative that we protect personal choice and stop mandatory vaccination. Be strong & fight to preserve our liberty and please think twice about whether or not to vaccinate your children: both the science and our history has shown that we do not require vaccines for a healthy society and if there is risk, there most certainly must be choice. Dont let anyone bully or abuse you. Its your child!

    #1632470

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    As a parent it should be my decision and my decision only whether or not I am willing to take the risks with the bodies of my children.

    Absolute dangerous nonsense. No, you can’t do whatever you want to your children. It’s your G-d given responsibility to take care of them properly. It is therefore a halachic obligation to vaccinate them. You have no “right” to inflict your meshugas on them or on others’ children through exposure.

    #1632467

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So if 4,000 people died from Measles

    They die of complications from measles. Big difference. You can’t accuse the CDC of lying based on your unproven conjecture.

    #1632438

    doomsday
    Participant

    DoingMyBest:
    HRSA .GOV ON VACCINE INJURIES: “How many petitions have been awarded compensation?
    According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2016 over 3.1 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 5,564 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 3,773 were compensated. THIS MEANS FOR EVERY 1 MILLION DOSES OF VACCINE THAT WERE DISTRIBUTED, 1 INDIVIDUAL WAS COMPENSATED.”
    So, let’s calculate. We now have a 0.07 chance of dying if we don’t vaccinate and a .00001 chance of vaccine injury if we vaccinate.

    Doomsday: Per CDC, 30,000 injuries and deaths reported to VAERS per year.
    According to a Report by the Department of Health and Human Services:
    Electronic support for public health vaccine event reporting system (it’s on the internet)
    “FEWER THEN 1% OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS ARE REPORTED” pg 6
    Dr. Susan Humphries stated that she (a medical doctor) never even heard of VAERS and there were
    no posters in hospitals informing doctors about VAERS!
    So if 30,000 injuries are reported and per the GOVERNMENT fewer then 1% are reported then there are
    really 3,000,000 injuries after vaccination! There are 168 DEATHS reported to VAERS. but since fewer then 1% are reported that would be 16,800 deaths following vaccination.
    3.1 Billion divided by 10 = 310 Million vaccines per year divided by 3 Million (injuries) = 1:103 vaccine injured
    310 Million divided by 16,800 (deaths) = 1:18,452 vaccine deaths
    Before measles vaccines there weren’t that many deaths from all measles, polio, small pox etc. combined!
    And these diseases didn’t cause millions of chronic conditions.
    EXPLAIN AGAIN HOW VACCINES ARE SAFE???

    #1632448

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: Wants proof that vaccines cause encephalitis and encephalitis causes autism

    Doomsday:
    1. Mayo Clinic: “Encephalitis (en-sef-uh-LIE-tis) is inflammation of the brain. There are several causes, but the most common is viral infection.”
    Some vaccines contain LIVE viruses. Other Vaccines contain known neurotoxins including mercury & aluminum. Children get multiple vaccines at once so they are getting both LIVE viruses & neurotoxins at once!
    2. Brain Inflamation a hallmark of autism, John Hopkins Analysis shows.
    3. Encephalitis and AUTISM are listed as adverse events on vaccine inserts. Also SIDS. These inserts are not shown to parents as required by law so all doctors are committing malpractice upon advise of CDC.
    4. Vaccine Court has paid out Millions to children who got encephalitis following vaccination.
    These compensated children who got encephalitis have Autism!
    5. Vaccine Court’s name is National Vaccine Injury Compensation – proof that vaccines cause injury!

    #1632449

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    doomsday
    “Doomsday: Nice Try. CDC and Merck LIED! CAUSE OF DEATH must be written on ALL Death Certificates:

    This isnt exactly true.
    for example take the following not uncommon scenario:
    Patient with cancer is in an immunosuppressed state develops pneumonia leads to septic shock whcih results in renal failure leading to hyperkalemia nad then cardiac arrest.

    I can reasonably write any of the following on a death certificate as the “cause of death”:
    – cancer
    – pneumonia
    – septic shock
    – Acute renal failure
    – hyperkalemia
    – cardiac arrest

    Usually I will include a few of the above , and the form does leave a few lines for chain of events for thsi very reason

    #1632450

    doomsday
    Participant

    Sorry 2scents – it was DoingMyBest who admitted that CDC and Merck lie that measles cause 1:1,000 deaths,
    and then said what does it matter – not you.

    #1632501

    truthishidden
    Participant

    Thank you doomsday for bringing this important information.

    #1632565

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Doomsday, the ~400 deaths figure did not come from analyzing all death certificates nationwide. That figure is how many of the ~400,000 cases a year that were reported died. If actual cases were more like 3 million, then ~3000 did die every year, and you have no more idea than anyone else what cause of death was listed on their certificates. They may very well have given measles, or complications from measles, as the cause, or as one of the causes; nobody ever looked and there is no national database to consult.

    #1632585

    benignuman
    Participant

    Doomsday,

    Because you mentioned the “vaccine court” you ought to know that they keep public statistics of the claims they receive of alleged injuries due to vaccines and those claims that pay out on. Even if we assume that every claim is legitimate (almost certainly not the case as any litigator would tell you), the risk from vaccines is exceedingly small. For example:
    1) between 2006 and 2016 there were 94,815,650 doses of the MMR vaccine given out in the USA. There were only 233 claims (valid or invalid) for injuries based on that vaccine. Even assuming that every claim is real, the chances of having an injury from the MMR vaccine is 1 in 406,934. You are far more likely to be struck by lighting (1 in 12,000) or even have siamese twins (1 in 189,000) than to be injured by the MMR vaccine.

    2) The DTaP vaccine is a little more risky, with claimed injuries coming in at 1 in 376,112 doses. But Tdap is safer with claims of only 1 in 603,252 doses.

    3) The Meningitis vaccine is much safer, with claimed injuries coming in at 1 in 1,655,250 doses. You are far more likely to win the Powerball (if you play weekly) in your lifetime than your child to have claim from the Meningitis vaccine.

    All of these statistics are available on the Health Resources and Services Administration website. The upshot is that even under a conservative estimate, these are tiny numbers. Vaccines are extremely safe and far safer that not vaccinating at all.

    #1632644

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    Truthishidden: you should have kept your comments hidden! You clearly know absolutely nothing about interpreting studies nor about the concept brought out above about spurious correlation. Before you try to selectively cite individual studies, you need to go and learn some basic science. Because someone published a study does not make it valid nor does it mean the conclusions are correct. There are many, many, many more studies about the benefits of vaccination with many more patients than there are studies describing potential problems (on the order of MILLIONS, or probably even BILLIONS more). Furthermore, you keep talking about the adverse experiences in the pharmaceutical companies’ labeling-how come you don’t trust them at all with regard to the excellent studies that they did before licensing their products but trust them implicitly with respect to side effects? What idiocy! Furthermore do you have any idea how the companies’ Product information works? I’ll answer that; No, you don’t. A company is required by FDA to report EVERYTHING that occurred within a period of time after the product (in this case, vaccine) is used with the CLEAR RECOGNITION that this bears NO RELATIONSHIP to causality. That’s why you’ll find that the number 1 “ side effect” listed for all children’s antibiotics is “upper respiratory infection.” Clearly the medicine didn’t CAUSE the cold but the cold happened while the child was taking the medicine and is required by the excellent system the FDA has in place to be reported by the company. But, then again, anyone who’s ignorant enogh to think that the CDC is falsifying data and would rather believe anecdotal unverified reports is clearly someone who doesn’t deserve to participate in any scientific discussion.

    #1632654

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    2cents: Wants proof that vaccines cause encephalitis and encephalitis causes autism

    Doomsday:
    1. Mayo Clinic: “Encephalitis (en-sef-uh-LIE-tis) is inflammation of the brain. There are several causes, but the most common is viral infection.”
    Some vaccines contain LIVE viruses. Other Vaccines contain known neurotoxins including mercury & aluminum. Children get multiple vaccines at once so they are getting both LIVE viruses & neurotoxins at once!

    Do you honestly believe that this even vaguely resembles a proof?

    #1632651

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    Doomsday: so, I guess that, since MMR contains neither thimerosal nor aluminum, you must be vaccinating with MMR! HaHaHa!!! You’ve also clearly taken the KoolAid if you can call vaccines “poison.” Your many comments are too ridiculous, unscientific, and not based on any data to deserve a response – so, I won’t bother.

    #1632653

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    If anyone is reading this stuff, you’ll notice that 90% of the posts are written by the same handful of people. “Doomsday’s” comments can all just be ignored because they are totally nonsensical. If you’re going to spend your time reading this stuff, just ignore doomsday-that’ll save you about 50% of the time! 🙂

    #1632655

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    Syag Lchochma: Beautiful response! Thank you for putting doomsday (and others) out of commission. Although science has 100% debunked the autism connection such that it doesn’t even warrant discussion, you developed a nice discussion to help people in the understanding of spurious correlation vs causality. Thanks. The autism issue is dead except among the anti-vaxxers none of whom understand science.

    #1632662

    doomsday
    Participant

    Daasyochid: 2cents: Wants proof that vaccines cause encephalitis and encephalitis causes autism
    Doomsday:
    1. Mayo Clinic: “Encephalitis (en-sef-uh-LIE-tis) is inflammation of the brain. There are several causes, but the most common is viral infection.”
    Some vaccines contain LIVE viruses. Other Vaccines contain known neurotoxins including mercury & aluminum. Children get multiple vaccines at once so they are getting both LIVE viruses & neurotoxins at once!

    Do you honestly believe that this even vaguely resembles a proof?

    Folks, I gave FOUR Facts as evidence vaccines can cause autism and you need to read ALL FOUR to see my point. Daasyochid is being silly. Here are my Four Facts:

    1. Mayo Clinic: “Encephalitis (en-sef-uh-LIE-tis) is inflammation of the brain. There are several causes, but the most common is viral infection.”
    Some vaccines contain LIVE viruses. Other Vaccines contain known neurotoxins including mercury & aluminum. Children get multiple vaccines at once so they are getting both LIVE viruses & neurotoxins at once!
    2. Brain Inflamation a hallmark of autism, John Hopkins Analysis shows.
    3. Encephalitis and AUTISM are listed as adverse events on vaccine inserts. Also SIDS. These inserts are not shown to parents as required by law so all doctors are committing malpractice upon advise of CDC.
    4. Vaccine Court has paid out Millions to children who got encephalitis following vaccination.
    These compensated children who got encephalitis have Autism!
    5. Vaccine Court’s name is National Vaccine Injury Compensation – proof that vaccines cause injury!

    #1632666

    doomsday
    Participant

    CDC AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES ARE LYING THAT MEASLES KILLS 1:1,000.
    From CDC’s own website:
    “In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died,”
    If 3-4 MILLION got measles and 1:1,000 die then 3,000-4,000 should have died. But CDC estimates
    that 400-500 died – about 10x LESS then CDC and Pharmaceutical companies LIE about.

    Folks, when I proved that CDC and Pharmaceutical companies LIE, all the ProVaxxers went into a frenzy!
    Only DoingMyBest admitted that CDC and Merck LIED but said it didn’t matter(!). I guess we should just
    trust known liars when they tell us that vaccines are safe.

    Health wrote insults and gibberish: “Your reading comprehension is so Poor! Did you even finish High School? Go back and look at the CDC Website again. When the CDC Wrote 1 out of a thousand die – that’s from the 80’s till Now!” Can anyone explain this???
    Ubiquitin tried to spin that maybe Measles wasn’t listed as a cause of Death but Pneumonia or Encephalitis.
    But that is wrong because of 1912 LAW requiring all doctors to report all cases of measles to national agency.

    Daas Yochid & Millhouse try to spin that there really were 4,000 deaths from Measles but only 1,000 were reported based on the fact that CDC wrote that most measles cases were not reported. I WILL REFUTE THIS;

    Per CDC Website, in 1912 there was a LAW that all doctors & hospitals must report all cases of Measles. The reason most Measles cases were NOT reported is because Measles is Mostly HARMLESS and mothers did not even have to take the children to the doctor. That is why MOST measles cases were not reported.
    But if a child DIED that would have to be reported to Medical Authorities so there were
    1,000 deaths per 3-4 MILLION cases of Measles – NOT 3,000 – 4,000 deaths as CDC and MERCK LIED!!!

    Look how ProVaxers try to COVER UP when CDC and Pharmaceutical Companies LIE!!!!!!!!

    #1632667

    Health
    Participant

    doomsday -“Health claims my reading comprehension is poor – I scored in top 1% is USA for reading comprehension
    on my GRE after getting my Masters Degree”

    I changed my mind – it’s almost Non-existent!
    “I scored in top 1% is USA for reading comprehension”

    This is the correct way:
    I scored in top 1% IN THE USA for reading comprehension.

    #1632677

    2scents
    Participant

    DassYochid

    “Do you honestly believe that this even vaguely resembles a proof?”

    Thanks, i have been scratching my head trying to figure out what doomsday is trying to prove, other than having the same words in one sentence does not mean this is the meaning of the sentence.

    Dooms has a very low criteria of accepting ‘facts’, yet for some reason has a preference which facts to accept, just happens to be the ones supporting the conspiracy theory of the anti vaccine religion.

    #1632678

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    “Folks, I gave FOUR Facts as evidence vaccines can cause autism and you need to read ALL FOUR to see my point. Daasyochid is being silly. Here are my Four Facts“

    The efforts of you trying to prove the conspiracy has been noted and appreciated.

    What is not appreciated, is you calling made up facts as evidence.

    Your kinda come across as silly, seems like your conspiracy theory discussion has been exhausted, you chose to dismiss fact and accept fiction. You have no problem bogus claims and when called out on them, you just move on and do not even acknowledge that you either lied or just pasted someone elses garbage.

    Extremely inappropriate Behavior.

    #1632688

    doomsday
    Participant

    Vaccinator: “If anyone is reading this stuff, you’ll notice that 90% of the posts are written by the same handful of people. “Doomsday’s” comments can all just be ignored because they are totally nonsensical. If you’re going to spend your time reading this stuff, just ignore doomsday-that’ll save you about 50% of the time!”

    Doomsday: Folks, remember in the Wizard of Oz when the FAKER proclaimed
    “Pay No Attention to The Man Behind The Curtain!!!”

    When ProVax Liars tell you NOT to pay attention to someone – that means pay CLOSE ATTENTION.
    I’m Making the ProVax Liars nervous so they start telling everyone don’t read my posts!

    #1632700

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Scents: There is no study that was able to link autism to vaccines, other than the now known fraudulent study by Andrew Wakefield.

    Doomsday: Folks, this is one of the most common ProVaxer Lies!
    Google “24 Published Studies Showing Vaccines Cause Autism” for Proof that ProVaxers are LYING to you!

    #1632706

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Scents: What is not appreciated, is you calling made up facts as evidence.

    Doomsday: Here are my Facts again. Tell me which Facts you DISPUTE and provide EVIDENCE!
    1. Mayo Clinic: “Encephalitis (en-sef-uh-LIE-tis) is inflammation of the brain. There are several causes, but the most common is viral infection.”
    Some vaccines contain LIVE viruses. Other Vaccines contain known neurotoxins including mercury & aluminum. Children get multiple vaccines at once so they are getting both LIVE viruses & neurotoxins at once!
    2. Brain Inflamation a hallmark of autism, John Hopkins Analysis shows.
    3. Encephalitis and AUTISM are listed as adverse events on vaccine inserts. Also SIDS. These inserts are not shown to parents as required by law so all doctors are committing malpractice upon advise of CDC.
    4. Vaccine Court has paid out Millions to children who got encephalitis following vaccination.
    These compensated children who got encephalitis have Autism!
    5. Vaccine Court’s name is National Vaccine Injury Compensation – proof that vaccines cause injury!

    #1632715

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @doomsday

    You are doing what’s called a “Gish Gallop”. Posting dozens of pieces of evidence in order to overwhelm the person you are trying to debate because they will have to go through each one individually. I can respond in kind if you would just Google “124 (now 144) papers that DO NOT prove vaccines cause autism”.

    Just reading the titles of the articles I know that the conclusion you are attempting to draw is a false and misleading one. Several articles specifically talk about heavy metal ethylmercury which has never been present in vaccines, unlike methylethyl mercury which is harmless. It’s a lack of scientific knowledge that causes people to confuse and conflate the two.

    On another note, several articles are old and only show preliminary conclusions that essentially state “more data required”. More data has been gathered and newer studies were launched that showed the initial preliminary conclusions were incorrect due to a variety of factors.

    #1632723

    doomsday
    Participant

    Yserbius123, is what 2scents stated that there is NO STUDY linking autism to vaccines, except Andrew
    Wakefield’s TRUE or FALSE? I DARE YOU to answer this question!

    (Hint: I showed you where you can find 24 Peer Reviewed Published Studies linking autism to vaccines).

    #1632728

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    Doomsday: nice try but none of us believe that you passed reading comprehension let alone did well on it because everything you write shows a total lack of understanding of everything in the literature. But, anyone who can accuse the CDC of lying is a fool anyway. Like, we should believe YOU who have no science background and no understanding of research and also have a big ax to grind rather than the CDC who is one of the most credible organizations in the world and have hundreds of international experts on their various review boards. That thought is so laughable! Time for you to pack up your keyboard and go home-the outright lies you are touting aren’t worth even your time.

    #1632733

    Doing my best
    Participant

    FROM Johns Hopkins analysis
    “While many different combinations of genetic traits can cause autism, brains affected by autism share a pattern of ramped-up immune responses and related inflammation, an analysis of data from autopsied human brains reveals.

    The study, a collaborative effort between Johns Hopkins and the University of Alabama at Birmingham, included data from 72 autism and control brains. It was published online last week in the journal Nature Communications.

    “There are many different ways of getting autism, but we found that they all have the same downstream EFFECT,” says Dan Arking, an associate professor in the McKusick-Nathans Institute for Genetic Medicine at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. “What we don’t know is whether this immune response is making things better in the short term and worse in the long term.””

    This says that encephalitis does NOT cause autism as Doomsday seems to be claiming, but rather the other way around.
    Doomsday, that is twisting around words and pure trickery. If you have to resort to lying then you obviously can’t win honestly.

    To adress Doomsday’s refutation of my risk weighout.
    PBS.ORG
    “Others who can sign a death certificate include a primary physician, an attending physician, a non-attending physician, a medical examiner, a nurse practitioner, a forensic pathologist or a coroner, but it varies according to state law. In Texas, for example, a justice of the peace can sign.”
    That means that when the other 3,500 people died, the cause of death could easily have been written down as a complication of Measles. For example pneumonia.

    Another point of Doomsday was that only one percent of vaccine injuries were reported. He then quoted the Department of Health and Human Services:
    “Electronic support for public health vaccine event reporting system (it’s on the internet)
    “FEWER THEN 1% OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS ARE REPORTED” pg 6”
    you know what the other %99 were? I would say a rash or slight reaction.

    Anti-vaxxers,
    Pls answer this. What exactly needs to be proven to you in order for you to agree?

    #1632734

    Doing my best
    Participant

    Doomsday,
    Vaccinator just caught you on another LIE.
    The mods should throw you off.

    #1632735

    truthishidden
    Participant

    Putting people down is not helpful in this debate.

    #1632736

    doomsday
    Participant

    Vaccinator, I didn’t accuse CDC & Merck of Lying I PROVED IT!
    CDC & Merck claim that measles kill 1:1,000. Yet per CDC’s own website data, measles killed 1:10,000.
    So CDC and Merck are claiming that Measles is 10x deadlier then it is – according to CDC’s OWN website!

    #1632737

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    Let’s clear up once and for all the terrible misunderstandings and intentional misleading by anti-vaxxers regarding the vaccine injury compensation program. This program was created in the 1980s because the number of frivilous lawsuits and ridiculous awards had grown to the extent that there was great government and public fear that manufacturers would stop manufacturing vaccines entirely and the recognition that vaccine availability was critical to the lives of The US population. The program was created as a NO-FAULT program to evaluate cases and reach a settlement out of court. ***Almost 80% of awards comes as a result of a negotiated settlement in which HHS HAS NOT CONCLUDED based on a review of the evidence that the ALLEGED vaccine caused the ALLEGED injury***. The idea is it saves money to just settle cases rather than spend extended time and money in court. So, all of the data and comments above by the anti-vaxxers regarding this program are useless because it reflects a total misunderstanding of what this program is! However, the comments are consistent with the many half-truths and out-and-out lies promulgated by this dangerous cult. I’d like to believe that all the anti-vaxxers making these posts are just ignorant but I’m afraid that it’s worse than that – they are evil and are intentionally misleading the public for their own gain.

    #1632742

    Health
    Participant

    Vaccinator -“nice try but none of us believe that you passed reading comprehension let alone did well on it because everything you write shows a total lack of understanding of everything in the literature.”

    Thanks for pointing out that point also.
    What scares me – is not just a few people that spout this nonsense – that this cult has grown, not just within the Goyishe communities, but also has grown, by leaps & bounds, in the Frum world!

    #1632746

    doomsday
    Participant

    How CDC makes FRAUDULENT STUDIES to “prove” thimerosal-vaccines don’t cause autism (it does!):
    “The Danish Study” compared the number of newly recorded autism cases before 1992 when thimerosal containing vaccines were used to newly recorded cases of Autism after 1992, when thimerosal was removed. The study showed that the number of newly recorded cases increased after thimerosal was removed and stated this proved that thimerosal does not cause autism.
    Here is the Fraud:
    1. Before 1992, the Fake researchers only counted autistic children in HOSPITALS. After 1992, the Fake researchers INCLUDED autistic children who were outpatients! There are 10x as many outpatient autistic children as there are in Institutions!!!

    It is the equivalent of doing a study on “Divorce Rates in North America” and counting Mexico and Canada divorces before 1992, then adding in the United States divorces for after 1992, and claiming that divorce rates went up after 1992.
    2. The Danish Government CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF AUTISM to a more inclusive one. Of course the number of children diagnosed with Autism increased!
    3. Deletion of Data – the Fake Researchers the entire year of data 2001 for seven year old children from its final published report. This is blatant Fraud!
    Additionally, all the researchers were employees or closely connected to Vaccine Manufacturers. One researcher, Poul Thorson, was indicted on 22 counts of FRAUD and fled USA and is on the Most Wanted Criminals List. These are the “Holy Researchers” employed by the CDC!
    Folks, after seeing how the CDC hires CRIMINALS to produce FAKE STUDIES to LIE to the public that Vaccines don’t cause Autism (it does), how can you trust them?

    #1632747

    benignuman
    Participant

    Doomsday,
    A few points to consider:
    1. You are ignoring the statistics I provided showing that even claims of injury from childhood vaccines are extraordinarily unlikely. It is far, far, far more likely that a child will be injured by the disease than by the vaccine.

    2. You keep on mentioning encephalitis which is usually caused by viral infection. While some vaccines use a live virus and can cause encephalitis in extremely rare cases, you know what is far more likely to cause encephalitis? The MEASLES VIRUS. At least 1 in a 500 (1/1000 concurrently, and 1/1000 later) children that get measles will develop encephalitis. That is far, far, far more likely than the 1 in 500,000 (at most) that will get encephalitis from the disease. These numbers are worlds apart.

    3. On the death rate from measles. The rate of death from measles today will be much greater than the rate from 50 years ago. Measles, like most viral infections, is much more dangerous for the babies and children who are otherwise ill than for healthy children. 50 years ago everyone got measles, the high risk and low risk alike. But today the high-risk group, babies and ill children, are also the groups least likely to be vaccinated and therefore more likely to get measles. Because a greater percentage of measles cases are in high risk kids, the rate of death has increased.

    #1632758

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    Guess what?! I just did research and discovered that the increase in autism over the past twenty years is directly correlated with the marked increase in avocado consumption!
    Yep, you heard it here first: AVOCADOS CAUSE AUTISM!! 😉

    #1632760

    Vaccinator
    Participant

    It’s real clear why these anti-vaxxers are so strident and frequent in their comments: the only time that ever happens is when someone is insecure in their beliefs and/or feel guilty about what they’re doing. In the case of the anti-vaxxers, it’s both. If they really believed what they said there would be no reason to be so vocal about it – unless they are closet Missionaries and are building up to a bigger sales pitch.

    #1632782

    doomsday
    Participant

    Vaccinator: Guess what?! I just did research and discovered that the increase in autism over the past twenty years is directly correlated with the marked increase in avocado consumption!
    Yep, you heard it here first: AVOCADOS CAUSE AUTISM!!

    Doomsday: And how many people developed high fevers and seizures within hours of eating
    avocados and then regressed into autism or dropped dead?
    Are Avocados full of neurotoxins like mercury and aluminum? Do Avocados contain live viruses?
    Are there THOUSANDS of people stating that they or their children became autistic after eating avocados?
    Are there dozens of Published Peer Reviewed Studies stating that avocados cause Autism?
    ARE YOU MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF?
    I DARE YOU TO ANSWER!

    Writing in caps is the equivalent of yelling and you need to stop yelling. It is rude, and it is not helping you make your point. It is only irritating posters and making you look a bit unhinged. PLEASE STOP YELLING OR WE WILL START DELETING YOUR POSTS!!

    I hope that was clear

    #1632784

    doomsday
    Participant

    Vaccinator: It’s real clear why these anti-vaxxers are so strident and frequent in their comments: the only time that ever happens is when someone is insecure in their beliefs and/or feel guilty about what they’re doing.

    Doomsday: I’m sorry I make you feel so insecure.
    I hope you feel guilty about spreading disinformation, but I doubt you have a conscience.

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