Taivah for movies

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  • #1147982
    Lovelyme
    Member

    Same goes with music. Watch something that you would watch in front of anyone walking by.

    #1147983
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Same goes with brushing your teeth. Brush only the way you would brush in front of anyone walking by.

    #1147984

    I only want to make one suggestion, here, and that is that the OP should take some time to examine exactly WHAT she wants to cut out of her life by ceasing to watch movies.

    I say this because I believe that refraining from things simply for the sake of deprivation will ultimately lead to recidivism. You need to solidify IN YOUR OWN MIND why something is bad for you, and only then will the motivation to stay away from that thing really crystallize.

    In other words, don’t stop watching movies because you read in the CR that it’s assur. Stop watching movies because you have identified something about them that you find detrimental to your growth, and because growth is your priority. If you believe that, the logic will fall into place.

    #1147987
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Thanks Proud Senior, and everyone else who replied to my originial question.

    So, that question was answered. But watching films/movies that don’t have anything to do with the 3 big averiros (you know what I mean) should be okay to watch. I mean, like these type of movies, one comes out every 2 months to 3 months.

    Are these okay according to halcha? And also these movies these days may not have the big three, but they do have plenty of boy/girl types of things. Even the kids movies…

    Is this okay according to halacha?

    @ProudSenior – it’s nice to hear it from someone my age who managed to stop! Thank you, do you have any other advise for me?

    #1147988
    jack613
    Member

    Write out the positives and negatives.

    Why do you want to watch movies?

    Why do you not want to watch movies?

    Music and Movies are the pen of the neshama. What we look at affects the way we think. The way we act and therefore the way we live. Look at it long term!

    Before you watch make sure to ask yourself :

    Is this what Hashem wants from me? He created this whole world out of such kindness. Does he really want me to escape from it? Or does he want me to live properly!

    Movies and non-Jewish music are substances which try and fill voids. Really you want to get closer and connected to something real. However, this is a fake alternative.

    We have to live with direction and purpose!

    #1147989
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x1532

    So, yes, of course the boy/girl types of things are assur.

    #1147990
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Op why not speak to someone who knows you rather than anonymous people on the internet or as they say ask LOR, Not every dereach is proper for every person.

    And there is nothing wrong with escapism as long as its done in moderation, In fact its healthy for you , Why do you think people take vacations, to escape from reality for a short period of time

    #1147991
    oot for life
    Participant

    Shopping,

    You can do it. Don’t give up. Its worth it. You clearly know what is right. You can do it.

    #1147992
    oomis
    Participant

    I am mot speaking out for or against movies. That is for the individual person to decide for him/herself. There is a lot of anti-Torah values junk being marketed as movies today, but there is also educational, artistic value to be found if one wants to look for it.

    What I do object to, however, is the notion that “escaping” from the world for an hour or two is a bad thing, something Hashem does not want us to do. No one can speak for Hashem. He gave us a gorgeous world to LIVE in and to enjoy, and after 120 years, HE will ask us if we did enjoy it. Perhaps going on a trip to Hawaii or Disney World, or even spending the afternoon at Great Adventures for that matter, should never be done. Surely when parents take their children on trips, that is an escape. Does Hashem want us to live an ascetic life with no enjoyment? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Torah life – yes. Live like a hermit – no.

    If someone wants to make the argument that time could be better spent more productively, my answer to that is that the body needs enjoyment also, in a material, restful, close out everything around us way, for a little while.(We can’t nap ALL the time).

    Some people like to read, some like to listen to music, watch tv, go fishing. Some like to open a Sefer (not really a relaxing option for most women, some of whom might be more inclined to open a Tehillim, but that’s not really the point I am trying to make). Each person has a different need and venue in which to de-stress from “the world around them.” We all, on occasion, need to “escape.” The method of one person might not be the method that another person thinks worthwhile, but it does not mean there is something wrong with feeling the need to find some healthy and proper outlet to achieve that goal for a short while.

    #1147993
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I am mot speaking out for or against movies. That is for the individual person to decide for him/herself. There is a lot of anti-Torah values junk being marketed as movies today

    I hope you don’t include the junk in your assertion that it’s for the individual to decide.

    #1147994
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Everything is for te individual to decide.

    #1147995
    jack613
    Member

    Taking family on vacation is NOT an escape!! That is where many people have gone wrong.

    Of course Hashem wants us to relax, listen to music, play sports etc

    BUT! Are we doing it Leshem Shomayim? That is the main thing.

    Therefore, as long as we do things in a way which Hashem would want us to do, such as:

    Music- Jewish Music

    Sports- so we are healthier. Why do we want to be healthier? To serve Hashem better!

    When we go on holiday, we are not escaping from the world. We are doing a mitzvah by seeing how special Hashem has made the world. We are creating stronger relationships with our family.

    The list can go on!

    But a vacation as long as it is done Leshem Shomayim in a kosher way then Hashem will be happy.

    Hashem just wants that everything we do is done in a way that we have a relationship with him.

    When we are at work- it is done honestly.

    When we tie our shoe laces!

    When we come out the bathroom- we say Asher Yatsar.

    So you might ask> Hashem is co cruel he made a world so we just thank him the whole time.

    Not true! It’s just the relationship he wants!

    He made us! He just wants a kesher, so we live properly and with fulfilment.

    So back to the movie question: Are you watching it because you want to escape or you need to relax a bit to serve Hashem with more strength?

    Is this the best way you could fulfil these objectives?

    Who understands/agrees?

    #1147996
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    RY23: True, but the Torah tells us ????? ?????.

    #1147997
    oomis
    Participant

    DY I do not advocate for watching junk, reading, junk, listening, to junk, speaking loshon hora, eating tarfus, being mechallel Shabbos, or anything else. But Hashem gave us Free Will for a reason. Whether good or bad, it is the choice of the individual. My point, my ONLY point, is that choosing to “escape” in some way, is not in and of itself a bad thing. Your way of escaping, should you want to, might not be the same ad another’s.

    #1147998
    jack613
    Member

    oomis: You think that reading a book is “escaping”. Or going on holiday is “escaping”.

    Maybe we have different ideas of what escaping is.

    Escaping from life is not what Hashem wants.

    Hashem wants us to have some ‘time out’ but that is not escaping.

    That is living!

    That’s doing what Hashem wants.

    Because Hashem wants us to LIVE 🙂

    #1147999
    Mammele
    Participant

    So let’s rephrase and I think we’d all be on the same page at least about “escaping”.

    Most of us need to “escape” from our daily lives every now and then. If we feel the need to escape from life itself/ reality/ Yiddishkeit we are likely depressed, straying or both. The key is to have some goals and what to look forward to in our every day lives so life isn’t so boring that we constantly want to run away.

    Shopping: Something such as visiting an elderly lady in the neighborhood and listening to her life story or making a get well card (get creative, think 3-D) or crocheted hat for a kid in the hospital, may make you feel better. Choose your “escapes” wisely, as doing good to others makes YOU feel better even afterwards instead of guilty and looking for another “fix” to escape the guilt…

    Much Hatzlacha!

    #1148000
    Z-ZONE
    Member

    I dont mean to sound naive or conversely sarcastic. But im really just wondering…lets say for a woman, is it really assur to watch a show where ppl r dressed immodestly etc but otherwise not too inappropiate? Like for a guy I understand. But what about for a woman? Why is this so bad?

    #1148001
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Why should someone be forced to do anything for anyone to escape, you escape for your own down time.

    If you feel relaxed sitting home reading a book or listening to some music that is fine, not every activity needs to be some sort of Mitzvah or Chessed. How about chessed for oneself , thats a good idea too

    #1148003
    Mammele
    Participant

    ZD: Who’s forcing here? And that was mentioned already. Stop being so anti-mitzvah.

    Obviously she will pick and choose according to her preferences, mood, and what works for her. I just mentioned it as an idea that is known to be fulfilling versus being overly focused on oneself.

    Besides, I could be wrong but Shopping strikes me as an extrovert.

    #1148004

    As mentioned previously, it is quite difficult to cease watching TV shows and movies if you don’t have another hobby to take its place. That being said, many people are not sure how to spend this time as the the time spent on media is usually time spent relaxing and not for busy activity. Therefore the question is what unwinding activities can one do that have a similar effect that TV and movies offer.

    #1148005
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    We have a big OTD problem and many kids when asked by Rabbi Wallerstein what they thought of Yiddishkeit , they said it was just a bunch of rules and regulations. In Yeshiva the only vice the bocherim are allowed is Coffee and Ciggarettes. the girls have to either say tehilim or do Chessed. And you wonder why people are leaving. They are deciding that all Yiddishkeit is a bunch of rules and they hate them and the vote with their feet.

    Giving people a little space to do their own thing is not Anti-Yiddishkeit, Its pro-Yiddishkeit, It allows them to blow off some steam and then get back on the proper track.

    #1148006
    Trust 789
    Member

    The Accountant: While it is indeed a good idea to find something else to fill the time, someone who watches movies are not necessarily doing it only because there is nothing more important to do, or just to unwind. People watch even when they need some much needed sleep. And watch even when there are other important things that need to be done. Or watch at a time when there are other things that could be done.

    #1148007
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ZD, you insist on turning this discussion into something it isn’t. It’s not about blowing off steam vs. OTD. It’s about someone who knows she’s doing something wrong, and wants to stop.

    #1148008
    Mammele
    Participant

    Accountant: It’s obviously different for everyone and sometimes it’s rewarding to try something new and get out of your comfort zone.

    There are many creative outlets, with great online tutorials. And gifting the work to others doesn’t necessarily make it less relaxing.

    #1148009
    Proud senior
    Member

    Hi again! Yes I def have more advice bc this was/stil is my nisayon. My familly is less yeshivesh and completely ok with me watching movies. That makes it a lot harder. My sister constantly watches things that look appealing and I learned to say No!!!

    #1 I know it sounds weird but pick a teacher u feel comfortable with and tell her u wana stop movies. Shel be so proud nd give you chizuk.its always good to have someone on ur side who u can confront. At one point my family was traveling to ny and I was nervous abt the long ride and having no videos. I went to my teacher who immediately lent me the school production videos. She was so impressed and now looks up to me a lot!

    #2 we had a talk recently in which r teacher said the following: by watching movies u are desensitized ur neshama to things like violence and other things. This is a big deal. There r many incidents where girls get married and are very unhappy due to their false impression of what marriage and love is all about. You wouldn’t want to marry a guy who watches non appropriate movies and therefore imagines his life to be perfect in every way. Life is not all about hapy endings. There is a tremendous amount of sadness and tragedy that comes along with life. On movies the message being portrayed is one that life is full of happy endings and everything wil always end wel. A young girl our age should not have to dirty up her mind with such frivolous ideas. When u stop watching u see u are a different person whether u realize or not. All of the sudden u have more free time and eventually things will start to shock you again wwhich is a sign of a healthy nechama. U ahld jump when you go to the man and see pictures outside certain stores. If u do its a good thing. I’d not its a sign of unhealthy nechamathat needs some cleaning up and filtering. Feel free to contact me via the mods. I wld love to help you further. Hatzdaka you shld feel amazing right now! Recognizing the problem is the biggest achievment

    #1148010
    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    Proud Senior,

    I greatly respect you for the self control you displayed in stopping to watch movies. I definitely see what you’re saying about being desensitized to tumah and violence. I’d like to add another negative side effect of watching movies- you start, quite ridiculously, being jealous of the characters in movies. It’s kind of what you’re saying about starting to think that everything has a happy ending, while in reality, life is horrible at times.

    I’m always somewhat depressed after watching a movie- my life seems so boring in comparison to th dramatic happenings within movies.

    Shopping, here’s a tip: when you feel the pain of wanting so badly to watch movies, yet not doing so for the sake of your spiritual advancement, remind yourself that the pain you’re feeling is the pain of the yetzer hara. He’s suffering a mammoth defeat, and quite understandably, is in agony. I’ve found this thought to be quite comforting when trying to overcome my desire for things like nonjewish music and movies.

    Another important thing for you to keep in mind is that Hashem understands the human psyche. He understands that you’d need to be something above a lowly human being to abruptly stop watching movies and keep to it for the rest of your life. Don’t give up when you fall! ??? ???? ???? ???.

    Maybe make yourself a geder? Something like this:

    Make a resolution that if you ever want to watch a movie, you have to do something like say five Perakim of tehillim, or chat with a friend for ten minutes. If you do this step and then proceed to watch a movie despite the extra time you have yourself to think about if it’s worth it, you’ll give five dollars to tzeddaka. However, if you watch the movie without doing the step you decided on earlier, you’ll have to do something much harder, like give a considerable amount of money to tzeddaka, or tell someone you respect about what you did.

    Get it?

    #1148011

    We are sorry, but our policy is not to allow contact between posters.

    #1148012
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    @Letakein Girl

    Thank you very much, I really like that idea!

    @Proud Senior

    No contact between posters, it’s annoying sometimes, but that’s life.

    1. Never say something WAS nyour nisayon, or easy for you. I have found that is like inviting the yetzerhara to test you again. Every time I have said such a thing, a day later the nisayon gets way harder….

    2. I am on trial basis as it is, my school would throw me out the moment anyone hears we have internet. Even internet with a filter!!! Teachers aren’t trustable in my school, it’s a real pity. The few that are, are too israeli charedi to even know about these things (I think) I’d find it akward trying to talk to a teacher and talk about certainb things in movies I am not sure she is aware about…

    What do I do then?

    #1148013
    jack613
    Member

    Judaism is not rules and regulations. It’s a way of life.

    Who knows how to live life better than the One who created it?

    #1148014
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Judaism is not rules and regulations. It’s a way of life.

    Who knows how to live life better than the One who created it?

    This statement came from Rabbi Zechriah Wallerstein at the Augudah Convention. you can listen to the exact speech.

    If you ever read the business section of the newspaper, you will always see about growth. Anaylists of businesses expect growth, they ask how much growth is a business doing. If you also know business, sometimes growth can be a bad thing. If you grow too much you can take on more than you can handle. You might get too many orders and the business cant handle it, Or you might expand into an area that was a mistake. Business expansion and growth doesnt always work and sometimes backfires (More than you realize).

    #1148015
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ZD, they find Shabbos, kashrus, and davening burdensome too.

    #1148016
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There is a differnece on Say Shabbos between no Melacha (Like riding a car) and Hashkafas like No secular talk or secular reading materials

    #1148017
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    R Wallerstein never said that “thus they can do all sorts of things that are Ossur” as you are advocating.

    Nor did he say that one should discourage someone who is trying to improve their ruchniyos, which you too are attempting.

    Sound more like Dov Linzer’s “brilliant” remarks on his recent podcast. Where he laughingly portrayed something that is ossur as being a mitzvah.

    #1148018
    Proud senior
    Member

    First of all, it’s true I shouldn’t say it was my nisayon bc it always will be. But as the yetzer hora tests you and u overcome those tests in that area, it does geteasier. For rexample wearing longer skirts. As u keep overcoming the battle it gets easier to fight. I’m not saying the yetzer hora will leave u alone but he will test you in different ways.

    I definetly feel for you. Not having a teacher you can trust is very difficult. I personally feel that anyone who has position of hs teacher is someone who rlly rlly cares about thegirls and wwould love to help in any wa. Think abt it you were a teacher. Wouldn’t you want the girls confiding in you and asking for help to grow in ruchniyus? I think that if you look aroundyou will find someone. For mme I like closing someone who isn’t my teacher anymore like mayb fromm 9th gr. Ot mayb a tteacher who just teachesbut never taught me. That way iI won’t have to see her every day but she can still help me tremendously.

    If you still can’t find someone you can always call your halacha teacher. I’ve asked numerous questionsto mmine and I’ve found him to be very approachable because he is a rav and deals with these things constantly every day.

    #1148019
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    True. Shabbos and kashrus aren’t yehareg v’al ya’avor; movies are.

    -Daas Yochid

    While I am not saying movies aren’t assur, please cite me a reason they are

    yehreg v’al ya’avor.

    #1148020
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Abizrayhu d’arayos

    #1148021
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Abizrayhu d’arayos means negiah and the like.

    Movies has to do with shmiras einayim and hirhur.

    Shmiras Einayim and hirhur are not yerheg v”al ya’vor.

    #1148022
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: That’s absurd. Not even Hirhurei Aveirah are Abizraihu D’Arayos. I won’t ever say it’s Muttar to see inappropriate things, but it’s certainly not Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor.

    #1148023
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The problem with that statement and other statements, you can use that to ban almost anything. Its like the term “Its not Shabbosdick” You can use that for almost anything

    #1148025
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    And to show how statements can lead, I heard a rav say one should not Bar-B-Que on July 4th because it was “Derech Ha’Goyim”

    These terms can mean anything to anyone

    #1148026
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    Even if its assur, i always thought that if by stopping cold turkey odds are you’ll relapse then its not called stopping. Limiting shudnt be out of the question just because a person will be actively doing something they know is wrong.

    #1148028
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1148029
    Mammele
    Participant

    Oyoy: on what evidence scientific or otherwise do you base your assumption that by stopping cold turkey there is a greater chance of relapsing?

    #1148030
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    The link you posted discusses talking to a girl, not looking at one on a screen.

    #1148031
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And shows that at least according to some, a ma’aseh is not required, as you suggested.

    #1148032
    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    I’m surprised by OP. Reading non-jewish books is worse than watching videos?

    zahvasdad: “There is a differnece on Say Shabbos between no Melacha (Like riding a car) and Hashkafas like No secular talk or secular reading materials”

    reading and talking secular is a matter of halacha. See shulchan aruch 307:1, and rama and aruch hashulchan ad loc. (I’m not saying there’s no room to be lenient but it certainly is a halachic consideration.)

    #1148033
    squeak
    Participant

    zahavasdad

    zahavasoneluckygirl

    If you ever read the business section of the newspaper, you will always see about growth. Anaylists of businesses expect growth, they ask how much growth is a business doing. If you also know business, sometimes growth can be a bad thing. If you grow too much you can take on more than you can handle. You might get too many orders and the business cant handle it, Or you might expand into an area that was a mistake. Business expansion and growth doesnt always work and sometimes backfires (More than you realize).

    You should have created a different username to post this. This may well be the only thing you have ever posted in the CR that has positive value for upwardly mobile Orthodox Jewry (despite how you may have intended it).

    #1148034
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    DaasYochid-You do agree, though, that watching movies is not bgeder yerheg v”al ya’vor.

    #1148035
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: There’s no Kreiva L’Arayos by watching a movie. EThe Az Nidb’ru has several Chiddushim in there, but even if we agree to all of them there’s no Kreivah because the movie makes me no closer to the actress. Other Issurim, sure, but not a Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor of Kreivah L’arayos.

    If what you’re saying is true, then that means some Achronim hold that one should commit suicide if he knows an inappropriate thought will pop into his head. Hence, absurd.

    #1148036
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    JT, it might be, according to some shittos (probably not halachah l’maaseh, which is hard to conceive of anyhow).

    Sam, what’s absurd is to compare actively being megareh yetzer hora to someone who “knows” he’ll have an improper hirhur without trying to. (Also absurd to think someone going to a typical movie isn’t being megareh Y”H.)

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