September 24, 2015 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1148190
GoGoGo-Me? Gave a heter to smoke? Where?September 24, 2015 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1148191
Joseph- In truth, I never gave any psak, I was just talking in learning and trying to be dan lkaf zchus. But just in case, I wrote that post.
And even if someone was intending to pasken, paskening from the CR in the first place is not a good idea.September 24, 2015 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1148192JosephParticipant
Oh.September 24, 2015 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #1148193
zahavasdad- The Rav who said had clear halachak reasons why he felt that way even thought most Rabbonim do not agree.September 24, 2015 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1148194
I was refering to a comment said by zahavadad about a Rav who was discussing BBQuingSeptember 24, 2015 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1148195
people who watch and care about halacha look awaySeptember 24, 2015 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1148196
its a lot more than YOU thinkSeptember 24, 2015 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #1148197GoGoGoParticipant
jewish thinker, i dont know where or what you said, all I know is that whatever you said my acquaintance took seriously and relied on and cant run as fast now, so you shouldn’t wake up yom kippur and decide to tell everone not to rely on it/ in fact, i think my acquaintanve may be joseph.September 24, 2015 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1148198
That doesn’t make any sense. I never posted anything that allowed smoking.September 24, 2015 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #1148199
people who watch and care about halacha
I think that’s an oxymoron.September 24, 2015 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #1148200
I never posted anything that allowed smoking.
Maybe they’re talking about movies.September 24, 2015 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1148201
DaasYochid- Can you ask you an honest question? Did it come out that I was paskening it was mutar to watch movies? I was just talking in learning.
And no, GoGoGo is specifically talking about smoking.
Joseph is talking about movies (though I find it hard to believe Joseph would watch movies)September 24, 2015 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #1148202JosephParticipant
It was only Uncle Moshe movies I relied on your psak for. I deeply regret it.September 24, 2015 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1148203
LISTEN I DONT KNOW HALACHA THAT WELL BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF JEWS WHO WATCH
AND CARE ABOUT HALACHA YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT SO BE QUIET AND DONT INSULT A BIG PORTION OF JEWS WHO MAY EVEN CARE ABOUT HALACHA MORE THAN YOUSeptember 25, 2015 12:40 am at 12:40 am #1148204
you’re hopelessSeptember 25, 2015 1:27 am at 1:27 am #1148205
JT, not paskening, but giving people a (fallacious) way to be moreh heter. I’m wondering why you keep saying to ask a Rav before smoking, but not before watching movies.September 25, 2015 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1148206
There are probably also a lot of Jews who eat tarfus and care more about halacha than I do.September 25, 2015 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1148207
you’re hopelessSeptember 25, 2015 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1148208
Oh, were you expecting me to change my mind to say that movies are okay because you wrote in all caps?September 25, 2015 3:51 am at 3:51 am #1148209
i was expressing my frustration with your close-mindednessSeptember 25, 2015 5:39 am at 5:39 am #1148210
Because I think eating tarfus is bad?September 25, 2015 6:31 am at 6:31 am #1148211Little FroggieParticipant
lemme join the fray
Dunno what’s goin on here. People are going to a movie, to watch just to be able to NOT WATCH ?!? Really?!? And you buy it??
Yes, B”H DY is close-minded, very close-minded; close-minded with Torah views. (Hopelessly..)September 25, 2015 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1148212
So DaasYochid, nobody can ever speak in learning because someone may twist what you say.
?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??September 25, 2015 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1148213HashemisreadingParticipant
Part of being open-minded is the ability to be open-minded to those who your perceive as close-minded.September 25, 2015 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #1148214
You have to know who is listening. Here, anybody could be.September 25, 2015 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1148215
Oh, by the way, Rav Moshe clearly writes that Lev Darka Achrina can only be used for legitimate purposes in IM EH 1:56.
DaasYochid- I never in this thread was defending watching dirty movies. I came here defending clean movies. If somebody is going to moreh heter to watch dirty movies, that is his fault. Dirty movies are assur.
But, now I realize that clean movies might have problems, even without pritzus. So I came back here before Yom Kippur, to tell people so. I also made clear that any discussion in here was talking in learning. A lot of things that I wrote have kashas on them that you posted. A lot of things here are my own savara.
So I am warning the public:
DONT RELY ON WHAT I SAYSeptember 25, 2015 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1148217
Part of being open-minded is the ability to be open-minded to those who your perceive as close-minded.
I never in this thread was defending watching dirty movies.
Of course not. Our point of contention was about movies which are not considered “dirty” by society’s standards, but are inappropriate by the Torah’s much stricter standards, whether for reasons of pritzus or otherwise.September 27, 2015 2:30 am at 2:30 am #1148218ivoryMember
Some people are so open minded their brains fall outSeptember 27, 2015 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1148219
Over Shabbos, I was back in the sugya a little and I saw something that goes against almost everything I said here regarding halacha.September 27, 2015 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1148220
My point in saying that is to show that almost everything here I wrote about halacha is not pashut, it’s complicated. Just relying on what I wrote here is not a good idea.October 1, 2015 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1148224
I also want to make clear that not all movies are assur. I am just saying that I am not the one to rely upon to decide which movies are ok and which aren’t.October 2, 2015 9:28 am at 9:28 am #1148225
You are probably not the one to rely on in a statement that not all movies are assur either.October 2, 2015 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #1148226
Life became more enjoyable and meaningful for me when I stopped viewing things in terms of assur and muttar and right and wrong.October 2, 2015 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1148227
So you would drive on Shabbos if it felt okay to you?October 2, 2015 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1148228
I’m not sure why you concluded that from what I saidOctober 2, 2015 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1148229
I didn’t really – I’m sure you aren’t mechallel Shabbos. I’m just not getting how not viewing things in terms of muttar/assur or right/wrong is possible for a frum Jew.October 2, 2015 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1148230
I didn’t either think it was possible until i did itOctober 2, 2015 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1148231
So how do you view things, and how do make sure not to do things which are assur/wrong?October 2, 2015 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1148232
Mostly I try not to obsess about not doing things that are assur/wrong and instead aim to live a spiritual/moral life.October 2, 2015 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1148233
According to whose definition of spiritual/moral? If it’s according to your own, that’s not Yiddishkeit and not your purpose in this world, and if it’s according to Hashem’s, then you do need to take very seriously (obsessing is unhealthy, though) whether something is assur or muttar and whether it’s right or wrong.October 2, 2015 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #1148234
The definition of spirituality and morality is God’s ideas and not my own. That’s what those words mean. Nevertheless, to “take very seriously whether something is assur or muttar” is not a mehalach that worked for me. If it works for you, kol hakavod. I was just saying that my life improved in every area when I stopped doing that. And for that reason, I don’t think God would want me to go back to my old mehalach.October 2, 2015 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1148235
A very important part of G-d’s “ideas” of what is spiritual and moral are the halachos found in His Torah, including muttar/assur. Of course He wants you to take it seriously. If you find that some aspects of your life seem to be more pleasant without taking halacha seriously, then that is your challenge and your nisayon to overcome that. I wish you much hatzlocha in that.
Just don’t rationalize that He doesn’t want you to take His laws very seriously. That doesn’t make sense.October 2, 2015 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1148236
So you make sure you feel connected to Hashem the whole Shabbos by singing and by saying Divrei Torah and being happy, and hope that Hashem doesn’t mind if you take the bone from the fish or the fish from the bone?October 2, 2015 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1148237October 2, 2015 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #1148238
DaasYochid: The only way goofa that I am capable of “keeping all the Halachos” is by not viewing the world with this rigid view. The only way to do it is to not take it so seriously. For me at least (at this point in my life).
yekke2: I don’t care for fish. I am a shomer shabbos. I do think that having a relationship with God is more important than the way I eat though. Twice a day I make sure to say three of the most important parshiyos from the Torah. In the beginning of the first one there is a commandment to love God. Believe it or not, it’s not a new chassidesh or breslov concept to love God. It’s as old as Judaism itself. In the second parsha it says “And it will be if you watch my commandments… To love your God and to serve him…”. Almost as if the main thing is to love him, the serving him will roll as a result.
I have discovered for myself that without having this genuine relationship with God, I wasn’t able to perform the mitzvos as I should. Now that I was introduced to some of these ideas (which unfortunately was never an important part of my Yeshiva education) my avodas hashem took a complete 180 turn, and I am a better and happy person all around. A small part of what came with this transition was changing my view of the world as a strict rigid place full of rules.October 2, 2015 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #1148239
Zev7 – I am understanding what you are saying and I have heard it before but it is very unclear if you are talking about within the confines of halacha or without. I am assuming the words “the serving him will roll as a result” indicate you are NOT talking about within the confines of halacha and if that is true, that is very sad.
If a person takes halacha too seriously by deciding that pants must be black, shirts must be white, fish must be gefilte, everyone needs to sing my songs or they are kofrim etc then you are right, that may not be a way to come closer to Gd and may be less about spirituality than politics and egocentrism.
But if you are saying (as has been said to me) that you know you are going against halacha on certain points but you feel a spiritual connection to Gd so you are not going to worry about it, then that is incorrect thinking.
If I ask you to help me pack my car because I am in need of assistance, and you tell me that you would really feel more giving if you could bring me lunch instead, how is that forming a relationship? We don’t form a relationship by picking our own guidelines and gifts for someone, we form a relationship by hearing what they ask.
If you have been taught that Judaism is about nitpicking and OCD, then I can understand your inability to connect, but maybe you should find yourself a better translator, a better shaliach, instead of choosing the self-serve buffet style because that is NOT what Judaism really is and there are plenty of people out there who can help make it real for you.October 2, 2015 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1148240
and if anyone out there is feeling that putting him down (on a personal level) and attacking him (personally, instead of his words) is going to be helpful, I hope you will realize the irony of those thoughts.
I believe it is dangerous to make up our own guidelines for connecting to Hashem but it is no less dangerous not to be careful with our words.October 2, 2015 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1148241
fish from the bone
Isn’t that good from bad, permitted biyad?October 2, 2015 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1148242
Syag Lchochma: Serving him will roll as a result is within the confines of Halacha, though not necessarily the way one without a relationship with God perceives Halacha to be. One who does not truly love God does not have a say in Halacha matters. Because once you love God, your whole perception of reality changes drastically. You need to experience it to know it.October 2, 2015 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1148243
You are still being very vague. Yes, if one does love Hashem it is not possible to do anything other than that which he has dictated thru the Torah. Rabbi Cordoza speaks of this in a shiur called, “Halacha as a symphony”. He said that if you TRULY understood the meaning and purpose of Yom kippur, you wouldn’t even think of eating, you would chose for yourself the very dictates that Halacha has set out for us. Truly loving Hashem brings a person to only want for himself that which Hashem wants for him.
But that is very different than saying that you love Gd, so you know that He doesn’t care what mitzvos you chose to keep or how you keep them. That He doesn’t care if you wait between milk and meat, if you check your lettuce well, if your skirt covers what it should.
I have heard your words used in both contexts and they are not the same. I don’t know if you are deliberately being vague about your meaning or not but the latter scenario is just an illusion.
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