Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › The source of modern anti semitism?
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August 16, 2011 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #598659bombmaniacParticipant
I read adversus judaeos a while ago…but it just dawned on me that adversus judaeos WAS the foundation for every single bit of anti semitism perpetrated by christians from 3369 CE to date…no one ever speaks about the rasha who wrote it, but the church saw fit to canonize him as a saint after his death. he is their patron saint of orators among other things and he is referred to as teh golden mouthed for his gift with oratory. he…singlehandedly…was responsible for our suffering from then till now. obviously everything is b’yad hashem but this rasha was teh shaliach.
August 16, 2011 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #798789mexipalParticipantwhats your point.
August 16, 2011 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #798790bombmaniacParticipantno specific point…its just interesting if you wanna use that word to pin down the source
August 16, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #798791mexipalParticipantjews have been hated millenia before adversos judeos. i’m sure there would have been another ‘reason’ for anti-semitism. eisav sonei es yaakov
August 16, 2011 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #798792apushatayidParticipantWe said in the kinnos last week that all our troubles are rooted in the churban.
August 16, 2011 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #798793YW Moderator-80Memberattributing all anti-semitism to one person?
i dont buy it, not at all, not in the slightest.
August 16, 2011 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #798794apushatayidParticipantThis is not the time or place, but whoever authored the book you recently read likely took his cue from the pages of the christian bible (they call it the new testament). Their bible refers to jews in flattering terms such “children of the devil” a “synagogue of satan” and it ascribes to the jews blame for the death of their savior. Ever wonder where the term good samaritan comes from? A not so flattering story about a pharisee found in the nt. Whatever the authors inspiration, quite a number of anti semites never even read the book, or even heard of it.
August 17, 2011 7:16 am at 7:16 am #798795bombmaniacParticipantbasically what happened at the time was he saw a christian woman entering a shul which housed the local beis din to sign a shtar. at the time judaism was still held in high regard as jesus himself was a practicing jew. it was common for christians to practice judaism in one form or another. they were called judaizing christians. they held jews in high regard and valued their courts as honest and trustrworthy.
anyway a few decades prior the church was established after the council of nicea…christianity became an organized religion. before during and after the council there was a civil war being fought between pagans and christians. essentially a struggle for power. religion WAS power at the time. the dominant power was the dominant religion. the purpose of the council was to unify the myriad christian sects and solidify the church’s position in the world thus enabling it to conquer the pagans. appearing as a unified force was more imposing than hundreds of scattered separate little groups of christians.
another purpose was to make christianity more palatable to christians such as the inclusion to a degree of pagan holidays etc into the church calendar. the point is that it was of paramount importance that the pagans be either converted, defeated, or at the very least, seriously marginalized. so it would seem of utmost importance for preachers who a the time were essentially political leaders who were helping the church in its fight against paganism. apparently the idea of judaizing christians and jews holding any standing in society at all was repugnant to john chrysostom which makes sense considering that judaism was not in accordance with church doctrine.
so this guy made it his business to tell the world of the evil of the jews. he perpetuated the idea that the jews were singlehandedly responsible for the death of jesus, and the idea that that gave christians a right to do as they please to the jews. from the time of the churban until him there was no one as outspoken against the jews as he.
remember, the churban had absolutely nothing to do with christianity as far as history is concerned, taht was all the act of pagans. up until nicea christianity wasnt even all that popular and as i said above, paganism, not judaism, was the church’s biggest problem. so when he got up and preached his homilies every sunday before his congregation, he shifted focus from the pagans to the jews and essentially validated any violence against a jew by using the death of jesus as justification. he made it his purpose to draw attention back to the jews. he made it his purpose to see that jews get persecuted by anyone who would listen to his sermons. he gave the christians the reasons they needed to become the rabid anti semites history has shown them to be.
so throughout the centuries whenever a christian killed a jew and blamed it on his involvement in the death of jesus or the sort, that stems from john chrsysostom. teh intense hatred felt specifically by christians stems from his rousing homilies against us.
as for your point about the new testament itself condemning the jews as jesus’ murderer, you have to remember that until nicea the new testament didnt exist as it does today. the text were canonized AT the council and john chrysostom was only a few decades after the council. peasants etc were not literate or wealthy enough to own or read a copy of the new testament so they got all their religious information from preachers like john chrysostom. am i saying that he was the only anti semite at the time? certainly not. but he was certainly the most gifted one in terms of oratory skill and he was certainly the most outspoken on that specific agenda.
August 17, 2011 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #798796600 Kilo BearMemberToday’s anti-Semitism is based on people having contempt for the medine because it can neither wage definitive war and stand up for itself after Hashem hands it victory, nor make peace because there is no peace to be made with the enemies of civilization.
The anti-Semite sees the medine as representative of all Jews, and he sees it acting like the nebach innkeeper of old who begs the poritz for a little more time. So, he sees the Jew as a weak shlimazl as well.
“Theological” anti-Semitism really only exists among a small minority of Catholic and Protestant notzrim who believe in replacement theology. They are not much of a danger to us – they are the rump NK of notzrus. The Westboro guys are just the loudest expressions of that ideology as are Pat Buchanan and Mel Gibson. (Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright are preachers in name only – they are really secular demagogues and rabble-rousers.)
We are our own worst enemies. We do not stand up for ourselves and we use golus as an excuse not to rock the boat. Decent non-Jews want us to rock the boat as Hashem wants us to do. The scum minority live in fear of us, as the Arabs in EY did for a few glorious months after 67 before Dayan let the Wakf have rights in Yerushalayim Ir HaKodesh, when we rock the boat.
August 17, 2011 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #798797apushatayidParticipantMy point about the churban was not related to the NT. My point was, we say in kinnos that all our troubles in golus, all find their roots in the churban. This theme is found in a number of kinnos, and is why (at least one of the reasons why) we say kinnos about tragedies that occurred throughout the golus on tisha bav.
This fellow and the trouble he stirred up for us is rooted in the fact that there is a churban.
You might want to read A History of the Jews by Paul Johnson. Christian Anti Torah Judaism (wont call it anti semitism, because many of these gospel writers were themselves jewish) was found among the early gospel writers, including john, matthew and luke.
The romans were fanatically hostile to the jews before the emperor converted the empire to christianity,(remember the churban? beitar? massada?) the hatred merely took on a new flavor once christianity was adopted.
August 17, 2011 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #798798YW Moderator-80Memberthis character of bombmaniac is not the cause of anti-semitism, the medina is not the cause of anti-semitism, they are only some among very many vehicles by which it is stimulated.
August 17, 2011 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #798799yichusdikParticipantThe source of anti-Semitism is that Hakodosh boruch hu brought morality and ethics to the world through his Torah and his people, and the world has resented these limitations since then. On a more immediate note, the reason Christianity and Islam have fundamental problems with the continued existence, success, and sovereignty of Jews is that our presence in the world is a constant proof and reminder that their supercessionist religions are simply wrong.
August 17, 2011 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #798800bombmaniacParticipanti specifically said that he was only the shliach or kli through which it came…i did not say that he wrote the gezeiros…im not sure why youre all claiming i did
August 17, 2011 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #798801charliehallParticipantI would not overstate the influence of the author of adversus judaeos. The Western Church did not adopt his philosophy but followed his contemporary Augustine, who while not a friend was not as hostile. And the fact that the author of adversus judaeos is still considered one of the leading lights of the Eastern Church did not prevent numerous clergy of that church in Greece and Bulgaria from saving numerous Jews from the Shoah.
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