Who are you? Who am I?

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    Who are you? Who am I?

    The reason for the warning is that he (or she) has done the following:

    -Offered to exchange personal information with the parents of a young child(1).

    -Tried to meet with two other posters by cracking an encoded exchange of theirs(2).

    -Started a thread in which other posters were encouraged to reveal personal details of their lives(3).

    -Joined technical threads where personal details were solicited, such as which ISPs were available(4).

    -Started do-it-yourself threads in which personal details, such as local codes and what type of dwelling people lived in were revealed.(5)


    Every word of the above post is true.

    Nonetheless, the above referenced poster (me) would probably feel pretty bad if people were speculating about how suspicious his behavior was and the possibility he was a stalker, or worse.

    Nothing more needs to be done at this time.

    If and when that person is vindicated, does everyone plan on asking mechila? Does everyone have a plan on how to undo the hurt?

    Who are you? Who am I?









    Many instances.





    youre such a joseph (thats the new insult these days!)


    ICOT, I think I missed something because I have no clue what you are talking about.



    I’m not insulted in the least.

    There have been far worse accusations leveled at me without my becoming upset at all.

    You can’t insult me so easily.

    I refuse to become insulted.

    You really think it’s that simple to upset me??? To farshvech my kavod??? What a nerve!!! What an insult!!!



    Guess I shouldn’t drink and post 🙁

    OK, seriously – it’s simply a request not to gang up on somebody and suddenly start looking at things a poster has said in the worst possible light simply because a precautionary check out and verification is being done.

    I’ve tried to give examples where posts of my own can also be looked at in a suspicious way as to what my motives are.

    It’s all to easy to get caught up in lynch-mob mentality instead of simply taking a wait and see approach.

    Even after the person is exonerated it’s impossible to unring the bell of horribly hurtful accusations that have been made.



    icot you are fine unless you mention that your last name starts with a K.

    always here

    Aries~ the reference is mainly to the thread:

    ‘Be aware of stalkers/info stealers’.

    ICOT~ very well done.



    Wait, that actually gets +2.



    ICOT: Firstly, welcome back. You were missed.

    Thanks for the honourable mention elsewhere. I don’t remember what I wrote, but your posts are invariably thoughtful and well thought through.

    I agree with your OP entirely.

    I consider the harassment which is taking place to be competely unwarranted and unjust. A suspicion should be worked through in private until solid proof has been found either way.

    Yes, the CR has to protect its trusting youth, but that can be done in a more positive way.

    The CR is no longer the cosy, friendly place I discovered 18 months ago. That’s a shame.

    YW Moderator-42

    ICOT, we have always enjoyed your posts. You have always been very helpful, informative, and funny. Although you may at times have done a little bit of “prying” it was nothing that would set off an alarm of “possible stalker”.

    AYC’s case was a bit different. Although he was always a nice, helpful, thoughtful poster there were other things going on. I had hoped that this would turn out better but it is with a very broken and heavy heart that we must come to this conclusion.

    The thing that tipped us off to him being a possible stalker was his vehement arguing against caution. It seemed to us, that he was deliberatly trying to quiet people like Jothar who were trying to warn the oilam about stalkers. We couldn’t understand how he could argue against it and the only explanation seemed to be that he himself was a stalker and was therefore trying to cover up for himself by saying that the dangers are exaggerated. If you recall, I called him Joseph during that argument which perhaps was going too far at the time. Believe me, it wasn’t just that one argument that caused me to make that accusation. Things had been slowly building up and there were a number of things pointing to it which I will not go into at the moment. After many posters pointed out all his good qualities I retracted and issued an apology. I had hoped that he was indeed not Joseph and not a stalker and that the CR would continue as usual.

    Then the following exchange took place 2 weeks ago:


    Just to make it clear again:

    I have nothing personal against anybody. I’m just trying to stop cybercrime. As a father, the death of Leiby kletzky hit me hard. So when I spotted what looked like cybercrime, I had to react. The innocent kids (and adults) of the CR deserve nothing less.

    AYC’s response:

    And LEIBY a”h had Nothing to do with the internet. I AM a Kletzky. I’ve been affected by this summer in a very personal way and am still reeling from the loss. As well as other losses. (Btw, his great-grandfather whom he was named after used to say quite often that the only regret he has from surviving the war was that he was unable to die al kiddush Hashem…)

    And I still believe that one should be cautious but not paranoid.

    The hypervigilance is not healthy for anyone.

    Am Yisrael Chai , who was already under suspicion previously, assured people that they need not fear giving away personal information because he/she was a Kletzky. He used the Kletzky name to try to manipulate people into agreeing with him. This is a known tactic in the world of manipulation and deceit.

    When he claimed to be a Kletzky in order to back up his argument against caution, that was sort of the final straw. I didn’t notice that post at the time but another user did and took the initiative to look into it and then reported their findings to us. A Kletzky was shown AYC’s, post, and raised alarms.

    AYC has been given a few days to establish his/her innocence once and for all. I had emailed him explaining the situation and asking for some sort of confirmation that he is who he claims to be. We were all hoping that he would acquit himself.

    Sadly, he did not. Instead of cooperating, ayc did nothing but hurl invective and abuse at us for doing our jobs. It seems apparent that AYC was nothing but a fraud, as we suspected for a while. And we, like many of you, feel shocked, outraged, and violated. We trusted someone and our trust was abused.

    The Coffee Room has lost its innocence and the cozy sense of trust it used to have, and for this we are all saddened. The rules of the Coffee Room state not to pry information yet in the course of conversations it is very hard not to divulge things here and there. Often we let things through such as ICOT’s examples above. Our goal is to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience for all. Unfortunately we live in a crazy world where that is not as easy as it sounds.

    There are those out there who will, puzzlingly, disagree with this course of action. If you do not feel comfortable with the mods enforcing safety, feel free to leave. We have a job to do, and you are under no obligation to use this website. Thank you very much for your understanding.

    And ayc, if you are who you claim to be and you out there reading this, please reply to my email so that we can have this resolved once and for all.

    YW Moderator-42

    Yes, the CR has to protect its trusting youth, but that can be done in a more positive way.

    The CR is no longer the cosy, friendly place I discovered 18 months ago. That’s a shame.

    It is a shame, I agree. I wish it wouldn’t be this way but unfortunately the “cozy friendly” environment can make it an easy target for stalkers. It is our job as mods to try to keep it fun yet safe which is not an easy balance.


    thank-you for updating us, mod42. possibly the reason why we MIGHT have all been fooled was because there are people out there who appear overly honest and sencere in order to over excentuate it, so that it covers up the crime.


    Joseph’s an old joke now, replace it with AYC!!!

    they both might be mentchleche yidden but still… caution is always appreciated.

    thanks Moderators!!! Your doing a wonderful Job!! Keep it up!


    42, thanks for your clarification. I do appreciate the effort you put into the CR. It’s a difficult, time consuming job and I’m sure you get mostly criticism rather than the thanks you should get.

    What disturbs me is the negative tone the CR has taken. Negativity has always been ‘shouted out’ here, which is why I enjoy this place. Now, in the name of safety, no holds are barred.

    Social engineering is a fascinating topic. (Perhaps I’ll start a thread on it). Teenagers tend to be too trusting and the internet is Dangerous. They do need to be saved from themselves and I agree we should all be keeping an eye out to keep them safe.

    But the battering of one and all here (I don’t mean you, mods) isn’t the way to go about it. It’s just become fodder for those who thrive on hostile exchanges.

    I hope you understand my viewpoint.

    moi aussi

    I still don’t get it (although I’m considered intelligent).

    Someone says he/she belongs to a certain family, which could be either true or false. Next thing the person is contacted by YW to prove who he/she is. The person doesn’t like the interrogation and becomes abusive in the private email exchange. Your conclusion: “The person is a fraud”.

    I see it as follows:

    If he/she is a Kletzky, it’s called revealing personal info (no harm was done)

    If he/she is not a Kletzky, it’s called lying (which harm was done?)

    Abusive emailing makes a person a chutzpenyak, so what?

    Where is the fraud???


    Wow! Scary! It is very disheartening to find this out.

    Question, though. What’s to stop him from signing on with another name?


    I applaud you ICOT!!! Keep it real!!!


    It is such a shame we have come to this point. Yes- it really makes me sad because this is such an indication of the infiltration of the “outside” world. just like it is getting scarier and weirder out there, and the news every day makes me scared to step outside sometimes,i guess CR has to follow in it’s own way- you know what i mean. it’s a chaval, and probably inevitable.

    maybe as a kabala, all of us CR posters should try to keep our postings truthful to defy all outside influences to keep it the awesome, informative and SAFE place to be!


    42 – Was any harm done with his stalking? Was there any contact with ayc and any other members?


    what a blow! i really enjoyed most of AYC’s posts…


    Wow, maybe it’s time for us to close and reorganize with limitations!


    It’s pretty pashut, I’m not sure why people aren’t “chapping”.

    It’s not the masseh as much as it’s the kavanah. 2 people turn on light bulbs on shabbos. One gets off scot-free, the other gets skilah. Why? Because one was being misaseik when putting on his jacket, the other turned it on after eidim and has’ra’ah.

    In English, willful intent to commit an aveira vs chance occurrence.

    While the mussar seforim say to avoid all lies, casual lies like many of the accounts here (pba, zeeskite, etc) are done to KILL their ne’emanus on anything, and are clearly not for fraud. A lie said in order to defraud is much more malicious.

    Eid echad ne’aman be’issurin. If someone says I am a rabbi and this piece

    Jothar was me’orer a zehirus- people need to be careful about what they post, quoting the murder of Leiby kletzky HY”d as a sevara for the added zehirus.

    AYC shterred the zehirus. He/she said no need to be careful. AYC was me’id on him/herself that he/she was a kletzky to give him/her added ne’emanus. She said, you can believe me on this issue, I’m a Kletzky. If this is sheker (and I am still being dan lekaf zechus that it is not, as per halacha), then it is eidus sheker and makes the person passul. I hope that rabbonim are contacted before any further actions are taken. Mesira is a serious issue.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    I think a productive way of returning to a warm and cozy place would be to let mean, insulting, annoying, and over the top comments go unanswered when possible. Comments that are so inappropriate or are made to anger people should be ignored when possible and maybe the posters will give it up. Generally, the rebuttals to the posts and rebuttals to the rebuttals and heated words at the two rebuttal-ing (?) are what brings on the negative atmoshphere. And also, everyone should bring a home baked food with them when they come.


    I’m shocked, and personally hurt if this is all true. AYC??



    Did I say any lies???


    Zeeskite, Not lies, fibs. You change your story so often that everyone knows not to take you seriously.

    Baal habooze, agreed 100%. Many of us here are personally hurt. Mod42’s most recent post hit me hard.



    Did I ever tell my story? If my memory doesn’t fail me, the only story I told of myself personally is true. (besides the 9/5 yr old schoolchild debacle in the summer).

    Kindly correct me if I’m wrong.

    Avram in MD


    The CR is no longer the cosy, friendly place I discovered 18 months ago. That’s a shame.

    I’m not sure if we have been reading the same CR. I have been reading posts here for several years, and there have always been mean spirited, flaming posts and threads with personal attacks, as well as warm, nice threads. I have seen a thread dedicated to banning posters based on their viewpoints (naming names), and instances of harassment against single posters. Why do debates on this one issue suddenly change the tone of the CR for you?

    I once posted in another place I found through interactions on the CR, and very quickly a “troll” poster tried to reveal who I was (but s/he was completely off the mark) and asked me to send him/her an e-mail. Many threads here have a “weird” feel to them, with attempts to pry information out of other users. There has also been a lot of sock puppetry, not just from Joseph. I have kept a lower profile because of all of this, and even regret what small amount of personal information I did reveal.

    All that said, I agree that witch-hunts are not the way to go. Randomly attacking other posters with accusations of stalking not only disrupts the CR, but it weakens the valid case for greater caution. My feeling for this is to encourage safer posting, and let the moderators do the rest. If a poster has a concern with something going on, it should be e-mailed to the moderators rather than spread on the thread. Most of this should occur behind the scenes. It’s interesting to me, however, that the opponents of greater caution are primarily the ones keeping the discussion going…

    moi aussi

    People talk about loshon hora, mesira, as if we would all know each other. We are numbers, no name, no face.

    It reminds me of a Chelmer joke.

    The people of Chelm had a list of jokes, and every so often they would get together and tell each other the same jokes over and over again. One day, someone had a *brilliant* idea. Instead of repeating the jokes, which took time, they gave each joke a number, and from then onward they would tell each other jokes by saying a number. The jokes were numbered from 1 to 50. One day someone said “joke number 52”. One person laughed hysterically because he had never heard this joke before! (the joke didn’t exist!).

    The nimshal is that in the cr, we are numbers, we don’t exist for each other, and yet people go round saying that number 65 spoke loshon hora about number 82.

    Raboisai, it’s a Chelmer joke.


    Avram in MD: Well put. Para 3 – my thoughts precisely, but expressed better.

    “Why do debates on this one issue suddenly change the tone of the CR for you?”

    I don’t mind debating. It’s the ‘random attacks’ as you put it. And all the name of a good cause, so can’t be taken to task.


    I posted a question before but I don’t see an answer – could be I missed it. But anyway, here it is again:

    How can we be sure that AYC won’t sign on with a different screen name? The answer is probably that we can’t be sure. So now what? Do we view everyone with a skeptical eye?

    It really is disheartening. But life in general is the same way. It’s hard to know who to trust. It’s not just the CR. Actually imho, the cr is still safer because you don’t know these people (for the most part anyway, yes some posters know others personally but that’s different). And as long as you really don’t give away too much info. you’re safe here.

    Last but not least – a big Yasher Koach to the CR MODS for doing a great job.


    im not saying you are joseph im saying youre acting like him

    YW Moderator-42

    gefen “Wow! Scary! It is very disheartening to find this out.

    Question, though. What’s to stop him from signing on with another name?”

    Nothing. Joseph does it all the time, so nothing stopping ayc from doing the same. The point in publicizing it is because many have become very friendly with him and may have had outside contact so this goes as a double warning.

    1) Be aware that the “friends” you make online might not be your friends. Don’t be too trusting. There are people out there who are very good at social engineering – manipulation to get your trust.

    2) If you have had contact with him, beware that he might have malicious intent.

    Jothar has been stressing this for weeks now and many people still don’t beleive it so this is a concrete example.


    real-brisker: “42 – Was any harm done with his stalking? Was there any contact with ayc and any other members?”

    At least 2 members have come forward claiming to have been contacted by hinm outside the CR, whether there was any actual harm done I cannot say.


    mod-42: thanks for your answer. it really is creepy to think that this can go on here. we’ve always heard that about sites such as facebook etc. but on a frum web site? wow! i guess i shouldn’t be surprised. we do live in a crazy world.

    let’s just hope that the majority of the cr members are on the up and up.


    42 – How is that done exactly?



    icot you are fine unless you mention that your last name starts with a K.

    always here-



    Thank you.

    YW Moderator-42

    I initially agreed with the way everything was handled, with just a quibble that it was done publicly.

    This was an unpleasant, uncomfortable situation, and I appreciate all your efforts in trying to resolve it, whichever way it ends up.


    Avram in MD

    Well put.

    True nastiness, prying / stalking and attempts to deceive are only present in a small number of posts, but they cause a disproportionate amount of damage to an otherwise pleasant and stimulating environment.

    Syag Lchochma-




    I agree that a betrayal of trust (which I still hold out hope hasn’t happened here) is upsetting and even shocking.

    The only thing we can do is be vigilant while being careful to draw the line between vigilance and paranoia correctly (much easier said than done).


    Also tried to elicit a poster’s email address.

    This all goes to prove that it takes an analytical eye to spot these things, and discern between threatening and non-threatening.


    Mods will make mistakes on these points too. But with the victim trail getting longer and longer, I’d rather the mods err on the side of caution.

    moi aussi

    What means being a victim?

    If someone tries to have contact outside the cr, is it called malicious intent?

    I noticed that MiddlePath mentioned a website where he recorded his songs. At that site the singer provides his email address (I’m saying “his” because it’s a male voice), which means that anybody can get in touch with him, and he can potentially be the link for people to connect with each other.

    How did the mods permit this?


    RB: “42 – How is that done exactly? ” (=outside contact made between posters)

    I’d want to know that too.

    The answer seems obvious to many here, but I don’t know. There always was a rule about not allowing email addresses to be posted.


    Just noticed the other thread about this. Ignore my above post (or mod – just delete, please. Thanks)


    choc – I`m very curious.

    moi aussi

    Mods, can you explain why you allowed a website with an email (see my earlier post).


    Hopefully this will have a good resolution. But as a former victim of stalker Joseph, I am happy that the CR is finally cracking down on suspected stalkers. Too many victims have been hurt. I do think that where no email contact is known, it should be done, from now on, privately, and just announced afterward one way or another.The danger of Joseph is VERY real, though. If you don’t like the way the mods are doing their jobs, feel free to vote with your feet and leave. I would rather they err on the side of caution, until the known stalker is put away.

    moi aussi

    Jothar, nobody is telling you to leave, so please respect people who differ with you and mods. What else is this coffee room for, if not for exchanging opinions respectfully?

    always here

    Jothar: ” But as a former victim of stalker Joseph,…”

    every time I question why you are still currently, actively, still corresponding by emails w/ Joseph, my comment gets deleted.

    I would like a response from you, ty.



    Also tried to elicit a poster’s email address.

    Guilty as charged – please see ==>HERE<==

    (That memory of yours is scary)


    how do you make HERE links?



    Like so:

    ==>< strong>< a href=http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/still-fuming-at-rabbi-belsky-and-mishpacha#post-3847>HERE< /a>< /strong><==

    (remove the spaces between the “<” and the “a”, “/a” “strong” and “/strong”)

    The “strong” tags make the “HERE” bold.

    The “a” tags make whatever text appears between them a link.

    The “href=” specifies the address of the link.

    Please try your hand at this on the following thread, rather than on the current thread:



    If anyone else wants to be emailed, please start leaving a few more personal details. I’m getting bored. Too many sn’s getting blocked.

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