August 16, 2011 3:29 am at 3:29 am #598653
ok so im sitting here with my husband and were reading Yalkut Yosef and how bad it is to cover ur hair with a wig and that the rabbi that alows it …..will be chased by fire …..i mean i try to cover with a hair cover but i just cant get my self to take off my wig …… i dont think i would be able to just not cover with a wigggg what do i do 🙁August 16, 2011 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #800273mommamia22Participant
Could you please elaborate about what you learned (“you will be chased by fire”)?
In terms of switching from wearing a wig, you might find it easier to do so gradually. Try wearing a really wide headband like the chassidishe women wear. It covers a large portion of the top of the wig and will allow you to get used to that look. Try to wear a hat fall, also. If the wig hair isn’t too long, and you wear a hat or a tichel on top, revealing only some of the hair, you will get used to that look. Wear earrings also, as you will feel more feminine when you show less hair. I think feeling comfortable with a look has a lot to do with those we see and hang out with. Look for women who wear tichels in a way that you admire. They will be more than happy to show you how to tie it in a really nice way, and you’ll see others who are doing it too.
You can also try wearing a tichel for brief periods of time to get used to it: shabbos, early mornings, etc.
They used to sell something called a pony tail snood. It looks like an extra large barrette with a fabric bag attached to it. You might be able to make one yourself, if you can’t find one. They’re really useful. You can put your hair in a low ponytail, snap the barrette on and put the pony in the bag. Then, plop a deep hat on top, which will fully cover your hair. It’s a pretty decent compromise, looks more up to date, and may help you feel more feminine.August 16, 2011 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #800274
Do you and your husband have a rav? Every sefer is nice to learn from, but you need to know that rabbanim occasionally disagree with each other, as in this case, where some will say like the Yalkut Yosef and some will strongly disagree and say that a wig is absolutely l’chatchilah and you have nothing to worry about. I recommend that you have one rav who you follow in all aspects of halacha (not really my own recommendation, the gemara says so), so you won’t be like a blind person groping in the dark each time you hear of one person who is extremely machmir.August 16, 2011 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #800276
Hello, are you syrian? if so, all of our rabbonim strongly opposed this psak of Hacham Ovadiah.August 16, 2011 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #800278estherhamalkaMember
ef613- I am Syrian too,and I would like to know which rabbis you are talking about that you say ‘strongly oppose’ Hacham Ovadia Yosefs psaks. He is a very well respected rabbi,all the shuls base their hanhagot on him. Whenever any questions arise the rabbis of the Syrian community contact him immediately for advice/assistance. I know,because they did it twice for me.
So please do not be so quick to disregard a very learned,very respected rabbis opinions.August 16, 2011 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #800279
esthermalka- i did not say they strongly oppose his psaks, i said they strongly oppose THIS psak. Please re-read my orig post.
This question has been posed to numerous syrian gedolim including Hacham Yosef Raful, Hacham Eliezer Harari, Even Hacham Baruch zt’l- and all of them paskened we can wear wigs.
You do not need to do much research on this- go look at what every syrian rov’s wife does- they all wear wigs. Hacham Ovadia is a minority in the sepharsdishe velt on this inyan, and practically speaking, in Halab- they always wore wigs. Such is a known fact that anyone who lived there or had parents that were there can verify for you.August 17, 2011 1:20 am at 1:20 am #800281
well last night we were just reading thru the yalkut yosef and it said how soooo many rabbis go against it …..and ther was only one rabbi that alowed it but he gave a heter not the way we have our wigs today ….. MOMOMIA….. it said somthing like hes lips will go against fire if he does give a heter to wear one …..then it goes on and says how the rabbi dosent even know how all the learnt rabbis even alowed their wives to wear a wig to begin with …..i jsut want to know that when we do wear the wig do we realy have somone to rely on …..bec the rabbi said in usual places where a rabbi gives a hetter hes held responsible for hes heterim but here evry women is on her own thats a pretty strong statment to say ….and yes i am syrianAugust 17, 2011 1:47 am at 1:47 am #800282
You definitely have very prominent rabbis to rely on. Be that as it may, as I stated previously it is proper and good to have one rabbi who you follow in all areas of halacha.August 17, 2011 3:13 am at 3:13 am #800283estherhamalkaMember
My whole family was born in Halab or Egypt and NO ONE wore a wig there. When they came to NY and became educated about the Halacha of a woman needing to cover her hair after marriage,THEN they took upon themselves to cover their hair,some with wig and others with hats. Even rabbis wives in Halab didn’t cover their hair there. They always knew of the Halacha but for some reason it just wasn’t kept in those places.
I know that the rabbis in Brooklyn that are Hacham Ivadia Yosefs talmidim are against wigs very strongly. Their wives wear hats.August 17, 2011 3:41 am at 3:41 am #800284
On the eighth day of Pesach I wear a sheitel, to show it’s only my minhag to usually wear a tichel and that I don’t actually believe it’s wrong to wear a sheitel.
I am very happy to wear a tichel because IMHO, it shows clearly that I’m a member of the club of married Jewish women. It gives me a chance to accessorize my snood to my outfit (ok, usually they are both black but sometimes, you can really make an outfit outstanding by matching that you cannot make with a wig, I mean, do you color match each wig to each outfit?)
and it is easy and comfortable.
(lubavitch, btw, are makpid to wear wigs exclusively, i thinkAugust 17, 2011 3:51 am at 3:51 am #800285kylbdnrMember
I’m sefardi and I just got engaged to a sefardi but my mom wears a wig and my chosson wants me to wear a tichel and I really like hair!! What can I do? Hats don’t match me.August 17, 2011 4:01 am at 4:01 am #800286always hereParticipant
whoa! not the topic I thought it was gonna be!! whew!August 17, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #800287
i no halabi rabbis wives never coverd thyr hair but i feel like they didnt know better …..i just wana know did anyone ever ask thyr rabbi about this ….i realy want an anser im sure ther is …btw thank u all for ur ansers and suggestions 🙂August 17, 2011 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #800288
esthermalka- speak to rabbi isaak dwek of deal/lakewood. he is from halab and can personally attest that mostly all rabbis wives (including his mother) covered their hair. see also Hacham Abraham Antebi’s sefer titled “Chochma Umusar” where he chastises the women for their breach in tznius by uncovering their faces in public. He lived in the late 19th and 20th century where he attests they covered their hair.
Just to address you hats issue and Hacham Ovadianiks in the syrian community-I personally sat at the table of Rav Yehuda Moalem zt’l , rosh yeshiva porat yosef and counterpart of Hacham Ovadia, and asked him about wearing hats or tichels at a chasuna, where the majority of people are wearing wigs (i did not specify whether the wigs the women were wearing were better than their own hair, i just said peah nochrit). So he asked me whats the heter to wear a hat in such a case?August 17, 2011 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #800289
as a slight addendum to what i wrote i above, Hacham Ben Sion Abba Shaul’s zt’l own wife wore a wig. He was known to be cholek on Hacham Ovadiah in thie particular inyan. Generally speaking in the frum Sephardishe world, Hacham Ben Sion’s psakim are followed over Hacham Ovadiah’s.August 17, 2011 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #800290
If anything, I think the whole reason for Rav Ovadia’s psak is that in boiling hot Halab or Cairo or Baghdad, it was impossible to wear a wig and he never saw them in his community until the recent explosion of human hair shaitlach, some of which really are questionable. Maybe that is what Rav Ovadia means by “chased by fire” – your head would feel like it is on fire if you wore the quality of shaitel that must have been available when he was growing up in Baghdad or when he was a rav in Cairo!
In addition, local Muslim women wore scarves over their heads so that Jewish women found them easier to obtain and completely socially acceptable.
I am actually writing a sefer on the halachos of wearing tin foil hats for men and women. There is a problem because they produce solar energy that can set off rather than protect against the chips that the CIA implants in our heads so that they can monitor the activities of the Jewish community in order to prevent another Pollard scandal.
For women there is also the inyan of how much of the face they have to cover with tinfoil to qualify for proper tznius (which of course is a machloikes between burqa and chador levels of coverage).August 17, 2011 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #800291shev143Member
Did Ovadia Yosef say “chased by fire” in the day or night time?August 17, 2011 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #800292midwesternerParticipant
kylbdnr: What did you discuss on dates? Why wasn’t this issue covered before?August 17, 2011 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #800293
i forgot to mention how it said if a boy is dating a girl and he wants her to cover with a hat and she wants a wig he should go ans ask a rabbi if hes shud break off the eng FOR A WIG to break off the shidduch thats crazyyyyAugust 17, 2011 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #800294kylbdnrMember
It was discussed so many times. He said he’d rather I wear a tichel because he says the reason of covering hair is so that ppl should know ur married, but with todays wigs, he can’t tell the difference if someone is covering her hair or not. I told him I told like tichels so he said (in an upset tone) if I wanna wear a wig I can. It’s not a normal thing to break a shidduch for such a silly thing. We’ve been together for 3 years; I can’t just say goodbye because of a tichel.
Does Ovadia Yosef allow a sheitel covered with a hat? Meaning the sheitel is sticking outAugust 17, 2011 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #800295
” he wants her to cover with a hat and she wants a wig he should go ans ask a rabbi if hes shud break off the eng FOR A WIG to break off the shidduch thats crazyyyy “
” I told him I told like tichels so he said (in an upset tone) if I wanna wear a wig I can. It’s not a normal thing to break a shidduch for such a silly thing. We’ve been together for 3 years; I can’t just say goodbye because of a tichel.”
(Did you mean to say, you DON”T like tichels?)
No, it’s not crazy and it’s not a silly thing. A couple should agree on certain things, or at least agree to work on them. These seemingly minor details are indicators of the larger issues that couples/families deal with throughout the course of the relationship (rather, for the rest of their lives). Go to the rav or the chacham and discuss it, because it will lead into a deeper discussion of the real issues. May you come away from the discussion with a better understanding of yourselves, each other, and what kind of home life you are striving for.August 17, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #800296
I definitely second ursula momish.
Dear Kallah, it sounds like he’s yielding to your will on more than one issue (men’s mikvah thread?). Please go for help together; if he doesn’t want to go, go alone.
Remember this rule, it will serve you well:
He’s the boss!
(From a woman who’s the boss at work and the boss of her children; who breaks lots of rules, but not this one)August 18, 2011 3:36 am at 3:36 am #800297
i no but i mean its worth breaking of a shidduch for that …..that means its realyyyy a serious thingAugust 19, 2011 2:37 am at 2:37 am #800298essy8Member
just to clarify… R’ Ovadia writes that if he sees she has yiras shamayim in other areas, he does not have to break off the engagement.
covering with a hat/scarf is a beautiful thing, and according to many is an ideal – the woman is sacrificing for Hashem. personally, i’ve been married for five yrs. both sides of the family are all “wiggers” but i wear a hat. i find that if you feel comfortable, pretty, and confident about it, it ceases to be an issue. for a lady to daily be uncomfortable with her appearance is not healthy, and she wont be happy.
R’ Ovadia does write that a lady who works and can’t wear a hat can wear a hat-fall.
good luck!August 19, 2011 3:38 am at 3:38 am #800299TomcheMember
Can you elucidate on how he is the boss?August 19, 2011 4:42 am at 4:42 am #800300always runs with scissors fastParticipant
Sheitals are treif.
The “Kosher ” European Human hair ones are the biggest treif.
There is no way anyone can over see the inspection of this product from beginning to end. And this “European hair” is really actually the same stuff from India, same as before, but they can get away with calling it European hair because its imported and sold to Europe first.
Think. Have you EVER heard of european women growing their hair long in order to make a few dollars and sell/manufacture a wig here or there? THEY DO NOT!
In other words the same Avoda Zara group of people in the temples are still making big money off our gorgeous addiction to wigs.
And to prove it, I can tell you a story first hand. My husband has sri lankens and indians in his factory and off topic one day, he just asks one of them…”Hey have you ever heard of this…selling the women’s hair for wigs”?
and the man answered “Sure its a big custom, sure we offer it to our g-ds in our temple and then they make wigs for your community, thats how ‘your people’ finance our temples.”.
Do you think Rabbonim and the like cannot hear this? And could they do anything about it?
The Satmar Rebbe was against sheitals.August 19, 2011 7:22 am at 7:22 am #800301
His status is primarily manifested by his making most of the decisions. Not that he enjoys decision-making, but it is healthy for him to do so and for me to accept his decisions. (I decided that;)
We do discuss the issues, and he hears me out, but the outcome is up to him. Truthfully, we usually arrive at the decision together; nevertheless, I try to refrain from saying it myself and instead ask him what his decision is.
Since marriage is the joining of masculinity and femininity, it is essential for a woman to let her husband be a true man, utilizing his masculine traits, and for a man to let his wife be a true woman, utilizing her feminine traits.
Chazal described specific attributes of men and women and established guidelines concerning husband’s and wife’s responsibilities toward each other which are obviously perfectly suited to cultivating their respective inherent traits, and, thus, to the attainment of the ideal marriage.August 19, 2011 11:14 am at 11:14 am #800302yossi z.Member
Ursula momish: lubavitch is not particular to only wear wigs except maybe in the street/public.
LuVmyFaM: why not ask your chacham to explain chacham ovadia’s psak as it doesn’t sound very clear to me the way you presented it? (I happen to be connected to the syrian/sephardic world though I am not syrian myself (my uncle’s brother is the chacham of Massachusetts)
😀 Zuberman! 😀August 19, 2011 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #800303uneeqMember
estherhamalka, ef613, LuVmyFaM-im also sy
As a man, I dont agree that “he’s the boss”. The man is NOT the boss when it comes to her personal chumrot. I go like cham ovadia. I always thought that the girl I marry is gonna wear a hat/rag. Well now that I met the girl already (and she’s wearing a wig), it has come to my understanding from my local rabbis, that regular girls (and even some rabbis wives) ALL wear wigs. If she wants to be machmir, I can push slightly for it, but at the end of the day, it would/should be her personal chumra to be different than everybody else.
A great piece of advice I was told by an ashkenazi rabbi-you don’t want to suggest generally unaccepted chumrot on her, unless you’re willing to accept vice versa. Such as waking up daveining netz in the morning. And saying tikun chatzot and etc.August 19, 2011 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #800304
always runs with scissors fast-
Not everybody holds there is a problem with the Indian wigs. My own rav holds there is no problem whatsoever.
As for your “first-hand story,” honestly I’m not quite convinced you aren’t just taking a line from the 2009 film “New York, I Love You”:
“Most human hair in America comes from our temples in India, where women offer their long locks to God, so that they can be sold to the West and you can have your wigs.”
Sounds curiously familiar. I’m not saying you are making up stories, but when an anonymous poster clearly has an agenda and starts telling stories, you can’t help but wonder.
This is why people should cite valid sources for everything they say. At least everything that can in any way be a cause for some people to look down on others.August 19, 2011 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #800306
tomim is 100% correct. The husbands minhagim become her minhagim, and the husbands decisions in a marriage are the final one.August 19, 2011 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #800307haifagirlParticipant
The husbands minhagim become her minhagim,
I know a couple – sefardi woman, ashkenazi man. She always said a bracha before bentching licht. Her husband wanted her to reverse that. So he asked his Rosh Yeshiva. He was told al pi halacha, he’s right, but al pi shalom bayis let her light however she wants.August 19, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #800308
I apologize to you, enlightenedjew, if my post offended you. Apology extended to anyone who felt pain as a result of my words.August 19, 2011 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #800309just meParticipant
I don’t understand why you are bringing this to annonomous people instead of your rav. Who are we and why do you care what we say?
About European Hair, being in the business, I can tell you that SOME of what you say is true BUT NOT all of it. 1) There is no hair collected from Italian anymore but there hair processing is a large industry there. 2)Rav Moshe matir-ed the shaila of Indian Hair many times. 3)Chabad rabbis never assered Indian hair 4) Very long hair is available from Eastern Europe and Brazil 5)An expert can easily tell the difference between European and Indian hair.
Good luck with what ever you decide to do. Taking on a chumra is a good thing if you can stick with it and doesn’t impose on other people. May Hashem help you in your quest for growth.August 19, 2011 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #800310am yisrael chaiParticipant
“Sheitals are treif”
“Do they have punctured lungs and separated tracheas?”
Is this how you responded at the height of the Indian hair shaitel scandal?August 19, 2011 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #800311TomcheMember
The Posek HaDor, HaGoan HaRav Shalom Yosef Elyashev shlit”a issued a public psak din that the Indian hair used for shaitels is Avoda Zora.August 19, 2011 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #800312ItcheSrulikMember
am yisrael chai: I think the sheitlach have a hole in the brain, not the lung. There are 46 other treifos, y’know.August 20, 2011 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #800313
Most human hair for better shaitlach is imported from Eastern Europe. There are ads on every lamp post where I live offering money for hair according to length, and for longer hair the money is enough to feed a family for a week or two.
Two high-end sheitel manufacturers make their better wigs in Ukraine, one here in this city (it is no secret – Freeda mentions it on her website and she has never used Indian hair nor does she mess around and substitute cheaper hair because it would be the end of her business) and one in another major city.August 21, 2011 3:08 am at 3:08 am #800315
I used to work for two separate heimishe organization, both of which strongly “preferred” that married Jewish female employees wear sheitels, as opposed to hats or snoods, on the grounds that it was more professional. They had to make exceptions, but they didn’t like it. It still seems to me like an unreasonably discriminatory policy.August 21, 2011 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #800316mommamia22Participant
Be careful how you state things with such conviction. Just because you follow one daiya does not mean it is the accepted daiya. You’re treading on dangerous ground to be a normal person paskening as though you are a Dayan. You make a blanket statement that goes against what many well known rabbanim advise and follow, and state unequivocally that it is the only opinion that counts. You disregard the opinion of many rabbonim. I respect the opinion you cite as a valid opinion, but not the only opinion.August 21, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #800317
I wouldn’t want to get in between you and your significant other, but you should know the truth.
This idea that you mentioned as the reason for covering hair is not nothing – actually if I’m not mistaken R’ Samson Rapahel Hirsch suggests it in Parshas Naso.
However, the Shulchan Aruch paskens that even an unmarried woman must cover her hair! Therefore according to the psak of the Shulchan Aruch, it is obvious that this cannot be the true reason. Why no one seems to be makpid on this today is a good question, but is beyond the scope of our discussion.
So what is the real reason? Good question. But the way halacha works is that since it’s so difficult to actually figure out reasons for stuff and be so sure about it, we first figure out the technical details, and only then speculate as to the reason. And the reason so many rabbis allow for women to wear a wig is because technically it is sufficient, and we have no real, legitimate reason to tell us that it isn’t.
Listen, the details of the halacha are sometimes very technical, and they work within a system that someone who is not a rabbi really isn’t qualified to decide. Not because the rabbis have special powers. Simply because they know all of the details. The halacha isn’t simply determined by the feelings we have while listening to the Torah reading or discussing the parsha at a kiddush. It’s like any specialized field – I’m sure you wouldn’t consider deciding on your own which prescription drug to take (I hope). That’s why if I could offer you any advice it would be that to agree upon a rabbi that you decide to rely on even when you don’t completely understand. It’s the right thing to do, and trust me it will also bypass lots of potential disagreements because halacha questions won’t be up for discussion. And just know that rabbis are nothing to be afraid of. A rabbi knows who he’s talking to and cares about you and will tell you what he thinks is best for you, and he won’t make you do something you can’t. Do a little research, and you’ll find the right one for you.August 21, 2011 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #800318
The Posek HaDor…
What is a Posek HaDor?
I mean no disrespect by this question.August 21, 2011 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #800319
Posek Hador is probably the same idea as “Raskbhag”. The foremost and leading posek of the dor. The one that people know is head and sholdiers above.August 21, 2011 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #800320
The foremost and leading posek of the dor.
Where does this idea come from? And who exactly is it relevant to that this is the “biggest” rabbi, if everyone is supposed to follow their own rabbi anyway?August 21, 2011 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #800321
What’s the point of Rav Moshe being described as the Rashkbhag? Same point here.
BTW, the Seridei Eish uses the term posek hador in various of his teshuvos.August 21, 2011 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #800322
You haven’t answered my question. Yes, what is the point? (Not rhetorical)
And when I say “where does this come from” I am not looking for a name, I am looking for the source of whatever concept it is supposed to imply.August 21, 2011 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #800323flyerParticipant
Actually a wife is supposed to follow her husband’s minhagim besides for candles (the way or when to light) and hair covering. Obviously she can but those are the two things you usually follow the way the wife’s mother did.August 22, 2011 12:58 am at 12:58 am #800324HachamMember
She is supposed to follow her husband’s minhag on candle lighting and hair covering, just like everything else.August 22, 2011 7:24 am at 7:24 am #800325
To someone who does not know, a woman wearing a tichel could pass for:
A chemo patient L”A
A Muslim and therefore a potential security risk
That is why a workplace would prefer a shaitel outside of EY where everyone knows why a woman covers her hair.August 22, 2011 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #800326
600–Those are good answers in the Ukraine, but they don’t pass in BP. A shaitel (generally) looks neater than some snoods. However, if a chassidishe woman who only wears a shpitzel or a hat-and-horsehair works there, or a woman who prefers to wear a hat and ponytail snood, they have to accept it or they are liable for the same kind of lawsuit that Disney faced regarding religious haircoverings. So they also have to accept a snood-wearer if there is no other reason not to hire her.
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