March 29, 2012 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #602716
I noticed a new trend. The Yeshivas are sending home the bochorim early and expect them to collect for the yeshiva Bein Hazmanim. I have a better idea.
Why not ask local businesses (who often can use a trustworthy hand erev YT) to hire these guys and then instead of paying a salary the business owners will give the donation to the Yeshiva as pay. Maybe it can be split 50-50 between the yeshiva and the bochor or something like that. I think the schools will make more money that way and the business owners, who are the ones they normally go to collect from anyways,will be happy to Donate. I am sure most will donate more then the going salary.
The Bochorim are BH very healthy and strong and there is no need to send them around begging for money for the yeshivas.
Plus I think the guys will feel better about themselves as its not a great feeling to ask people for money – even though its not for themselves.
Any pitfalls? Why cant this work?March 29, 2012 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #864444NaysbergMember
This is not a new trend. It has always been done, in many Yeshivas. In fact, they start very young. Yeshivas start sending bochorim to collect Tzedakah for the Yeshiva at least as young as 8 years old.
The reason is much more than to raise money for the Yeshiva, as important as that is. It is a matter of chinuch. It teaches the importance of Tzedakah for a Torah Jew. Including, importantly, in raising Tzedakah and in giving Tzedakah. This time-honored form of chinuch cannot be foresaken.March 29, 2012 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #864445The little I knowParticipant
I have a bigger issue. The yeshiva has a responsibility to be mechanech their talmid, preferably with their guidance of how to spend bein hazmanim as an added benefit. This plot to send them collecting trains young men into the world of schnorring. This is in perfect concert with the guidance and direction to absolutely avoid any career, and to sit and learn while subsisting on the income produced by the wife, who already is in charge of keeping the home, cooking, laundry, having babies, and child care. The husband, who will thus spend his life doing whatever at the expense of others, has been trained by the bein hazmanim program to live off others’ money. Unfortunately, this brief sarcastic description of what is involved in marrying the “learning boy” is a trap that leads to many ills, one of which is bitul Torah, disguised as kollel learning. I am not cynical – just realistic.
If these boys were to find and hold jobs during bein hazmanim, they would be unavailable to be of any help to their parents in preparing for Yom Tov (both Sukkos and Pesach involve enough preparation that would provide a bochur with a precious mitzvah of kibud av v’em).
Altogether, there is a pirtzah in current thinking in which the bochurim are being viewed as “fundraisers” while they are not in the beis hamedrash. Where did that idea come from? What is so bad for a bochur to come home, divide his time between family, relaxatino, and some sedorim to learn? Why must we try to balance the budget on the necks of the talmidim? Does anyone have answers to these questions?March 29, 2012 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #864446
This is retarded. My brother made about 5000 dollars in a week. If you can find a local business to hire him for that amount, then kol hakavod.March 29, 2012 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #864447yeshivaguy45Participant
A great idea in theory, but who says the business owners are interested in hiring and that bochurim are interested in working? Most bochurim wouldn’t be interested in doing something like that.March 29, 2012 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #864448
Naysberg – Ive never heard anyone suggest that 17 year old children need go collecting for chinuch. Your not human if you do not know at that point how vital tzedaka is in the frum world.
popa_bar_abba: – 17 and 18 yr olds are not colecting 5k each. They are going in groups of and 5 and if all 5 works, at 2500 per month….thats 12,5000$ – pretty good I would think.
I do not think most collect thatMarch 30, 2012 12:02 am at 12:02 am #864449NaysbergMember
Hands-on experience, at any age, is an incomparable chinuch to any alternative.March 30, 2012 12:07 am at 12:07 am #864450
yeshivaguy45: – Because they are collecting from “the busines s owners” anyways. I belive that in such an arrangement, most businesses will give more then the worth of the work. This way everyone wins. Im sure someone is going to say “some people find it a privelage to help these yeshivas” – It is – But there are enough people collecting who really need it – and cant work – lick sick , orphans, widows, etcMarch 30, 2012 12:24 am at 12:24 am #864451☕️coffee addictParticipant
I loved going collecting in Minneapolis when I was in Ner Yisrael, one year I went with one other person and we collected 5,000 dollars, and had a lot of good memories.
by one place, a business, we walked in and asked to speak to the owner, he asked us “how much do want” to which we answered, startled “well you gave 250 last year” to which he said “how about 500” we took it.
another place said they only give to zionistic causes and only if Ner Israel said the prayer for the medina would we get anything (even though we were collecting for a city in Eretz YistraelMarch 30, 2012 12:26 am at 12:26 am #864452☕️coffee addictParticipant
however I do agree that asking kids to collect is shnoring one of my other “experiences’ in Ner YisraelMarch 30, 2012 12:45 am at 12:45 am #864453A Sheep without a SpleenMember
One of Popa’s brothers first went collecting when he was 19. He went to a city with a friend and profited about about $2300 in 5 days. They weren’t an outstanding pair either. Most of those pairs from that school make between 2500 and 3000. I wouldn’t blame Popa’s brother for under-producing because all the big names were crossed out so that the “professionals” could speak to them.March 30, 2012 12:46 am at 12:46 am #864454Bar ShattyaMember
Ive never heard anyone suggest that 17 year old children need go collecting for chinuch.
I have heard multiple times that it’s important to go collecting, I believe it has to do with the fact that the kids in general don’t pay tuition and owe some hakaras hatov
17 and 18 yr olds are not colecting 5k each. They are going in groups of and 5 and if all 5 works, at 2500 per month….thats 12,5000$ – pretty good I would think.
One of popa’s brothers went in a group of two (at 19) and made about 3k from thurs to sun. And I don’t mean 3 and a half weeks… a half of a week, and seriously, you can neither collect nor work most of the monthMarch 30, 2012 1:22 am at 1:22 am #864455
Really, your brother made 5000 a week. where? Definitely not in the New York areaMarch 30, 2012 1:46 am at 1:46 am #864456cherrybimParticipant
“I have a better idea.”
I also have a better idea. How about sending kids home Bein Hazmanim to learn. I encountered one shul/bais medresh in Flatbush on Avenue J and 18th which is packed with bochrim learning Bein Hazmanim. What a Kiddush Hashem!!March 30, 2012 1:53 am at 1:53 am #864457
‘I have heard multiple times that it’s important to go collecting, I believe it has to do with the fact that the kids in general don’t pay tuition and owe some hakaras hatov’
but if they work for the money and give half or all to the school – isnt that showing more hakaras hatov?March 30, 2012 4:23 am at 4:23 am #864458
“One of Popa’s brothers first went collecting when he was 19. He went to a city with a friend and profited about about $2300 in 5 days. They weren’t an outstanding pair either. Most of those pairs from that school make between 2500 and 3000. I wouldn’t blame Popa’s brother for under-producing because all the big names were crossed out so that the “professionals” could speak to them.”
C’mon give the “professionals” a break they don’t pay tuition either.March 30, 2012 7:29 am at 7:29 am #864459
tina18: You have no idea what you are talking about. You are making up facts to fit your stupid agenda, and you sound like a moron.March 30, 2012 10:46 am at 10:46 am #864461
popa_bar_abba: “stupid” – “retarded”, “moron”. All you are doing is talking like a gutter inner city teenager. As a matter of fact, you do this in quite a few threads. I think your record speaks for itself over who the moron is. Your profile “Mildly Retarded, Eccentric Jewish Woman” kind of makes the point as well.March 30, 2012 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #864462NechomahParticipant
Tina18: What business owner is going to hire an untrained yeshiva bochur to work for a short period of time? And pay him $2500? I don’t understand where this idea comes fromMarch 30, 2012 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #864464
Nechomah: if hes working for a whole month in a warehouse packing, delivering, etc –March 30, 2012 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #864465
What business owner is going to hire an untrained yeshiva bochur to work for a short period of time? And pay him $2500? I don’t understand where this idea comes from
Nechomah: if hes working for a whole month in a warehouse packing, delivering, etc –
This is an example of how someone hates yeshiva guys, so will make up anything in order to have a complaint.
Now you want them to spend an entire month working in a warehouse.
Well, firstly, yeshivos don’t have an entire month off, once you count the days of yomtov.
Second, you can hardly expect them to spend their entire vacation working in a warehouse. When would they have vacation?
Most important, you are still making up facts. Because no warehouse is going to pay a yeshiva guy 2500 a month either. A month is about 160 hours of work. 7.15×160=1114. Even if they pay 10 an hour, 10×160=1600.
And nobody hires people for a month. Especially not a month when they will have to take off 4 or 5 days for yom tov! And don’t go with some pesach season hiring stupidity, because the pesach season ends after half the month.
You are so dumb. You are really really dumb. For real. So you can go and tell that homeboy, homeboy, homehomehomeboy.March 30, 2012 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #864466
popa_bar_abba: ‘This is an example of how someone hates yeshiva guys, so will make up anything in order to have a complaint. ‘
I did not complain – just made a suggestion. Hates Yehsiva guys? where did that come from? my suggesting they not collect and offering a possible alternative? Your forcing them to collect so maybe you hate Yeshiva guys
My analysis of your comments is that you hate yourself and that is why you talk in such a demeaning way.
editedMarch 30, 2012 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #864467mytakeMember
Popa I have no idea how you get away with talking like this. It’s disgusting.March 30, 2012 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #864468
“Most important, you are still making up facts. Because no warehouse is going to pay a yeshiva guy 2500 a month either. A month is about 160 hours of work. 7.15×160=1114. Even if they pay 10 an hour, 10×160=1600. “
People will pay more because its going to Tzedakh. Like when they send you a free tape in the mail – most people give moreMarch 30, 2012 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #864469slave-to-g-dParticipant
I went collecting for my yeshiva this year in a out-of-town city and made $5,000 in six days. If u can find me a job like that, I would greatly appreciate it. popa is right. There is only about a week and a half to work, and no one will hire two yeshiva guys for that short amount of time and pay them decent money.March 30, 2012 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #864470
I live in the heart of flatbush. Have several boys home for bein hazmanim. Neither my sons, or any of their chaverim from yeshiva, or chaverim from other yeshivos were asked to collect a single penny for their yeshiva over bein hazmanim and so far, not a single bachur has knocked on the door collecting for their own yeshiva. I’m having a difficult time believing the premise of this entire thread.
As for PBA. Consider those terms of endearment.March 30, 2012 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #864471Flatbush DudeMember
This makes no sense. Does anyone really think these yeshiva guys have the marketable skills to be hired, especially with little or no training??? Maybe I could see them schlepping some boxes or selling things, but there’s no way they could work behind a desk in a secretarial or administrative capacity. By the time they learned what they were doing, their month would be u.
And why would any employer ever hire random yeshiva guys for a month. People with training try hard to get internships, and even that is after training.
WHAT THESE YOUNG BOYS SHOULD BE DOING IS BAKING MATZOS IN FACTORIES FOR PEOPLE! IT WOULD ALLOW THEM A DOCILE JOB AND THEY CAN PUT ALL THE HALACHOS THEY LEARNED IN YESHIVA TO GOOD USE!!!!!March 30, 2012 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #864472
RUN and tell that. Not “go” and tell that. popa is so ignorant. Oh let me guess- he misspoke, right yeah I believe THATMarch 30, 2012 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #864473
Popa I have no idea how you get away with talking like this. It’s disgusting.
Me you have questions on? This idiot comes here to spew violent hatred against the lomdei torah, and your problem is that I use “not nice words”? But that you don’t protest?
You are correct that I am not talking nicely, but it is amazing to me that in a thread like this, you could complain only about my comments.
As for PBA. Consider those terms of endearment.
People will pay more because its going to Tzedakh. Like when they send you a free tape in the mail – most people give more
This deserved repeating. I’ve heard that if you repeat something idiotic, it starts to seem true, so I repeated it.
Hmmm. Not working yet. Let me try again.
People will pay more because its going to Tzedakh. Like when they send you a free tape in the mail – most people give more
I give up. Maybe I’ll come back later and try again.March 30, 2012 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #864474
RUN and tell that. Not “go” and tell that. popa is so ignorant. Oh let me guess- he misspoke, right yeah I believe THAT
I don’t have to come and confess.March 30, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #864475
We need a *like* button so that we can push down pba’s comments.March 30, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #864476mytakeMember
“This idiot comes here to spew violent hatred against the lomdei torah, and your problem is that I use “not nice words”? But that you don’t protest?”
I’ll protest it when you point out where the poster “spewed violent hatred against the lomdei torah”. I also disagree with Tina18’s idea. But who’s spewing violent hatred??March 30, 2012 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #864478
“Like when they send you a free tape in the mail – most people give more
This deserved repeating. I’ve heard that if you repeat something idiotic, it starts to seem true, so I repeated it.”
I once heard from an administrator of a yeshiva the following anecdote, not sure how widespread it is though.
He was soliciting donations on the phone from the “mailing list” a little after Purim, and they came to old man schwartz who lived in another city. After some pleasantries, administrator asked schwartz why he didnt send his “usual annual donation” and schwartz responded that since he didnt get his box of candles chanuka time, he was annoyed at the school. They made sure to send him two packages of charoses and he sent back a nice donation.March 30, 2012 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #864479Sam2Participant
Tina: Honest question: What bother you here, the Schnorring or the not working? If guys used their precious few weeks off to just chill/relax and learned a few hours a day would there be a problem?March 30, 2012 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #864480cheftzeMember
Thank You for standing up for Kovod HaTorah.March 30, 2012 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #864481
Sam2: nothing bothers me at all. It just seems strange when healthy yeshiva boys come home early to collect when they can just as easily earn the money for the school. Seems less degrading. I do not mind at all if they collect – but collecting is normally a last option, not a first option.
I do not understand how anyone can find that offensive.March 30, 2012 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #864482
I agree with PBA. I couldn’t agree more, actually. I have gone collecting for yeshivos multiple times, and I have averaged over $3000 a week. No one would hire me for close to that amount of money, especially since i live out of town and there aren’t many frum business in my area.
On another note, it seems to me that Tina had a perfectly well-meaning suggestion, and when informed by PBA and friends that she (I assume she’s a she) was misinformed, she felt the need to defend herself, and started to bash PBA when she realized she couldn’t defend her point. Also, she uses big phrases like “gutter inner city teenager,” so she must be right.
Why don’t you present your suggestions directly to the Roshei Yeshiva who support this practice instead of trying to fight with PBA, who as far as i can see from all of my research, hasn’t ever lost an argument in the coffee room?March 30, 2012 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #864483
bobbys cow: that was a reaction to PBAs gutter talk. OK PBA – lets go for a beer summitMarch 30, 2012 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #864484slave-to-g-dParticipant
While collecting may be hard for some bochurim, it is very good chinuch hamussar. It really helps break some of your bad middos. It also is a way of being makir tov to the yeshiva that is giving you your ruchnies, often through rabbeim who get paid very little or not at all.March 30, 2012 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #864485
Slave: even though you agree with my side of the argument, i have to disagree with your idea. While collecting may be good for some people’s middos, i would just like to point out that some people do not benefit from collecting. I know people who have had serious gaavah problems because they were very successful in their collecting (even though its all from hashem, and our hishtadlus is limited to knocking on a door), and I know people who were not successful collecting and then had self esteem issues (once again, it had nothing to do with them).
I am aware that these boys had gaava or self esteem problems anyway, but the collecting definitely exacerbated the problems.March 30, 2012 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #864486Sam2Participant
The Gemara seems very against asking for money. It feels like it brings it out as a bad thing. However, I can easily see the difference between begging for a livelihood and collecting for an institution.March 30, 2012 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #864487
OK PBA – lets go for a beer summit
It’s a deal.
I really did think you were asking in bad faith, but looking back at the OP, I see the first post may have been an innocent mistake. I shouldn’t have called it retarded the first time around.March 30, 2012 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #864488
popa_bar_abba +1March 30, 2012 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #864490avhabenParticipant
Collecting Tzedaka for a Yeshiva is a Mitzvah Rabba that should never be given up.March 30, 2012 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #864491
‘avhaben: Collecting Tzedaka for a Yeshiva is a Mitzvah Rabba that should never be given up. ‘
But this is giving. Collecting Tzedakeh is bigger then giving??March 30, 2012 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #864492avhabenParticipant
Tina: If the guys don’t collect it, you are taking away the Mitzvah of giving Tzedaka from so many people who would have given had someone collected and otherwise didn’t give.
And, there is a humongeous Mitzvah in collecting Tzedaka for the Yeshiva too.March 30, 2012 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #864493
” ‘avhaben: Collecting Tzedaka for a Yeshiva is a Mitzvah Rabba that should never be given up. ‘
But this is giving. Collecting Tzedakeh is bigger then giving??”
The Gemara says that greater than the one who gives is the one who collects. Yes, collecting is greater than giving.March 30, 2012 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #864494
Yes, tina, it is. the gemara in bava basra says that tzedaka collectors get more schar than tzedaka givers. not to mention that i have personally been thanked by many baale batim when i asked them for donations. (although i’ve been yelled at by a similar amount of baale batim)March 30, 2012 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #864495cherrybimParticipant
Another better idea: after going to minyan and learning a few hours, the bochrim should be home helping their mother with pesach preparations so that she will not be a rag at the sedar table; that would be the biggest mitzva rabbah, taking precedence above everything else.March 30, 2012 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #864496
Just curious. How many people reading this have been solicited for a donation to a yeshiva, by a yeshiva bachur home for bein hazmanim, whether at home, via the phone, at work, anywhere, ever?
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