As for most of your post, you and I are in agreement. For the rest of it I will try one more time to explain: I believe your agenda is not letting you comprehend what I’m trying to tell you.

The Deborah Feldman you met in writing and the person now in your mind is very much a person the author created. Yes, she created herself. I real life she is nothing like she is portrayed in the book.

If you read the book with an open mind, and leaving your emotions behind, it is very clear that she created laws, circumstances, and herself (character), leaving nothing to imagination. And she successfully preyed on your emotions.

I agree with you that most troubled people went through hard times and i really don’t judge people because of it. However, this one had a goal from the outset. She was gonna satisfy all kinds of crazy desires she couldn’t control. Problem is she couldn’t justify it so she found people who are willing to take the blame.

She was also part of our community so she knows exactly where we are vulnerable and those are the points she chose to expose. You want to learn from her story? I would suggest you continue talking to the honest people, the really hurt ones, do to find a way to correct some very disturbing problems in our community. I for one am willing to follow your direction to make this world a better place.

And back to my original point. Her book – big deal. I don’t think she’s done any damage to our nation as a whole. Destroy her neshama – maybe. We don’t need to defend ourselves or the Torah. Hashem is the only one who can truly fight for His own honor. For those of us that follow the path of the torah – great. And those of us who need to improve – change – we needed to do it anyway she affected nothing.

Soleik – with all due respect for youself and your life’s accomplishments, I fail to get your point.

Yep, you both had hardships in life but that’s where it ends. Your story is yours and hers is hers the two stories don’t compare to one another.

You’re one that took responsibility from the get go. While she is one who wanted to shirk responsibilty… and the list goes on.

While I feel for her as she is still Hashem’s child, and I really wish she finds herself soon, I don’t consider her a victim to her life’s trials. She portrays herself as that to excuse the things she does. I think she considers herself a success for getting to this point that she’s been working on for probably most of her adult life. From the conversations I had with her, I don’t think this was any means an escape for her, although she wants to portray it as such to gain sympathy, I think that this was her goal from the get go.

Somehow I feel that you’re not getting my point.

soliek: I was very moved reading your post.

I truly believe that there is a very special place reserved for people like you. People that have gone through the unthinkable (from a young age) and emerge not just “in one piece” but somehow find the courage and the sympathy needed to help others who remind you day in and day out of the very tough battle you yourself overcame. It’s hard to conceive where you draw your inspiration from.

It is commendable that you remain so sensitive to other’s feelings and want to protect the whole world. I don’t know how you have the strength to go fight day after day without just giving up. You’ve taken the fight of all troubled people and made it your own. You fight for their feelings with your own. You fight for their dignity with your own. In short, you identify closely with such people very emotionally.

I just want to remind you of one thing. You need to verify stories and characters before you invest so much energy. DF, or rather Suri, is not someone who’s worth the fight. Save your energy for all the others who truly cannot help themselves.

(P.S. Nobody ever said anything about being angry. I just wanted to point out that she ended up exactly where she wanted to and used enough people to get there. If those people feel violated, I would totally understand them.)

Thanks for your inspiration.

Hatzlocha on all your future endeavors and may we hear of an end to all Tzaros.

Why do we have to view it as such?

If two people, say, share the burden of carrying a mortgage/rent. Pay their property taxes together and are responsible for each other, in this way avoid being a burden on the state. Give em tax breaks and let them purchase health insurance together. Don’t call it marriage or anything else.

I still don’t see where rights come into play. Who’s bothering them?

soliek – I don’t know how what you’re saying responds to my post.

But in any case all I’m saying about her is to take her with a grain of salt. Both her life story and her views on her former culture.

Besides, which part of who she is right now is defined a success?

Feif: I challenge you to go into the satmar community and find out how many people – both male and female – are walking around with degrees of all sorts.

“It’s not easy talking about it.”

You’re right. But it sure is if it never happened, (Or if you were a consenting member to the crime.) and you’re trying to prey on people’s emotions.

You realize that sometimes it works to put her in a box – that’s how she viewed chinuch and didn’t know any better.

And sometimes it works for her to talk about heresay stories – i.e. murder… (only she was in the box. Her husband wasn’t)

You’re involved in special field of work and you tend to sympathize with otd teens that crosses your path as a victim and a nebach and they need help. While that is commendable it will only come to hurt you if you don’t evaluate the backrounds and personalities of people to make sure they are legit. It is naive to think that everyone going off and passing on the blame is saying the complete truth.

If you read the book and tried to read into her as a person you would realize that there is no person. There are a few personalities and whichever one causes the most sensationalism gets used.

Soleik – why that and not this. Knowing her, I wouldn’t consider a stretch of the imagination.

GAW – Nice point. But the difference is is that what happened to Bar Kamtzah really happened and what the author is saying doesn’t always add up. They did end up in the same place: twisting things around to make things work for them without considering the ramifications.

That said I will repeat what I’ve said before: This is not a time for us to start accusing each other about what we’re each doing wrong. It’s time to look at each other and see what we’re each doing right so that we can learn from each other how to be better people.

And, I might add: Keeping young women out of her future shelters.

Soleik – the author has taken a lot of basic values and twisted them around to work for her own cause.

What makes you think she’s not doing the same thing about her personal story to play on our emotions to make us all feel guilty for her leaving?

As a side note, you deal with victims of abuse. Would it make sense for a victim of an attempted rape to throw caution to the wind and seriously flirt… (and end in serious problems)? I would think they would try to protect themselves as much as possible and try not to attract unwanted attention. Think Elizabeth Smart.

I hope this made sense and I am trying to stay away from too many details.

more – check your facts on this one. I’m almost sure you’re allowed to make berachos, daven when some of your own body parts are uncovered. You’re might be right about the nail clipping/washing hands…

The point is not to expose her lies/ distortions/ propaganda (call it what you want) which, quite frankly most of them cannot be discussed on this forum anyway.

Going back to the original op- its effect on us: The point is to appreciate the value of what Hashem has given us in terms of the mitzvos that teach us clearly a respectable way of life. Thank Hashem for teaching us family values and for giving most of us community support. And most of all daven that our children and us should see the beauty of the torah and remain true to its teachings.

The longer this thread and all other df exposing websites go on, the more we empower her. Why don’t we just close this thread and let her go away.

I did not post the above to bash DF. I posted to explain a drop who we are speaking about.

And the truth is that is doesn’t really matter. She wrote a book the way she decided to write it. Why are we getting all defensive. Whichever way we choose to call her on her lies its basically a she say he say type of thing. I say ignore it.

She chose to leave our beautiful way of life with all its so called problems. That’s her loss. Where did she really end up? Which women in the secular world doesn’t have to work continually to impress the opposite gender with the way they look, act or whatever? Is the rate of rapist and murderers there so much lower than in our circles? It just doesn’t get into the news anymore. It’s so commonplace.

What did she run from and where did she run to. CRABCAKES. I’m impressed.