CS

Finally mdd I’ll leave you with a question, do you
learn daily a balanced seder of nigle and nistar (as appropriate) sefarim?

Mdd if I was obligated in the Mitzvah of Talmud Torah I would definitely make the time to have a balanced seder with a good chevrusa at least twice daily etc:)

Qwerty-
Yes the Alter Rebbes Neshama almost escaped his body (aka klos hanefesh) because he was happy to be moser nefesh for Chassidus (The ayeka story grounded him). His departed Rebbe and his Rebbe, ie the Maggid, and the Baal Shem Tov also visited him in jail. The physical hardships meant nothing to him. But to have a fellow Yid disparage Chassidus etc for an hour straight- that’s difficult!

Arso- I never heard the misnageds name. Heading for the first time on this forum.

Qwerty, As far as lashon hora, from what I’ve learned, if something happened in front of 3 people, it’s public and no longer lashon hara to repeat. In any case I never heard the name and that wasn’t the focus anyway…

You may want to brush up on those halachos

I never heard of the Kherson forgeries so I can’t comment there. There are haters who make things up as well. If you can send me a reliable source (accessible on the internet,) I’ll look into it at some point and then ask around if it looks legit.

Some things I question people for years and look things up until I get a satisfactory answer;)

“ Who does a habad hasid love more ? a mechalel shabbat [even shana upiresh] or a frum ‘mitnaged’ ?”

Ideally, we love every Jew equally, no matter what they do/ don’t, although that doesn’t mean we sanction their actions etc

On a practical level- Chabad Chassidim feel closer ideologically to other frum Yidden, so therefore feel threatened by their attacks more (as I’m sure Vice versa). Therefore as a group we act more defensively when it comes to litvaks questioning us than a yid with pink hair and piercings etc

Qwerty I directed that part of my part to Arso.

Basically that part of the story is part of the mesora so to
Speak of the retelling of what happened every year so it’s not forged…

In any case, for context, the Alter Rebbe was still in petersberg when he was released (not home), he had given the soldiers the address of a chossid living in the city, where all the Chassidim were expecting him. The soldiers brought him there but to the downstairs apartment which belonged to a misnaged. The misnaged welcomed him in and gave him a cup of tea, but then started lecturing him for an hour over the changes he had made. He wasn’t interested in hearing a true answer, he just lectured the Alter Rebbe. Eventually the Chassidim realized what might have happened and went downstairs where they heard the misnaged yelling at the Alter Rebbe. The knocked/ banged on the door, he opened and said here’s your Rebbe, take him. The Alter Rebbe finished the tea that has been offered in honor of his host and then left.

Aaq everyone has bechira chofshis and many people did go off in lubavitch as well. However- lubavitch as a whole had the strength to uphold Yiddishkeit under the most adverse conditions. That was the point. Whereas the Alter Rebbe saw 100 years earlier that Chassidus hadn’t yet been given the chance to blossom and ingrain Yiddishkeit to such an extent.

As to your second post-historical context is everything… what applied then clearly doesn’t apply now bH

Qwerty thanks for the compliment.
Honestly I haven’t heard of the Kherson forgeries and I’m not too interested in looking them up because it’s mainly irrelevant to my life today. I’ll keep it in mind though if someone does bring it up. Recently I bought a book and then heard that it wasn’t100% accurate. I’m a bit annoyed because I only want truthful books in my house and now I don’t know what’s true and what’s not. And it was a gift… generally, within Chabad historical stories are taken very seriously as far as being careful with accuracy so if this matter would come up, I’d have to look into it to see if your assertion is correct.

Regarding AAQs comment, the Alter Rebbe didnt sneer this back at the misnagdim, he merely confided to Chassidim that having a fellow Jew interrogated him over Chassidus etc, was more painful than all the time in jail. That is understandable. He was a person who didn’t care for gashmius as much as things that were nogeia l nefesh

Now, in lubavitch we learn that in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek already, there was peace between the Chassidim and misnagdim

Actually if I could sit down with a Ger woman, I’d love to wrap my head around that one

Emunas1, so glad you’ve learned so much Chassidus. Honestly, at my stage (and I’m not in a calm shul environment either,) davening is more a battle to stay focused, than a wonderful uninterrupted hisbonenus, for me, at this stage. I can’t say I’ve learned all the maamarim of the Alter Rebbe and the Tzemach Tzedek either- although I’m really getting into Shir HaShirim and shoresh mitzvas hatefilla. I haven’t yet touched the Mitteler Rebbes Chassidus yet (it’s very lengthy.) but again I usually only manage to do some in depth learning on shabbos. I wouldn’t mind learning R Aharons etc, but all the Rebbeims Torah comes first… as that’s essential for my Avodas Hashem

Avira- excelled- I meant spiritually. For a chossid/ Jew to go and willingly open a cheder / Mikvah even though he knew he was probably gonna end up dead by a gun/ beating / Siberia etc. Is excellence in devotion to Hashem and Yiddishkeit

Emunah1: as a side point, all The Rebbeim came in a successive line and were guided by previous Rebbe/im after their passing. It’s all one message and one Torah (and each Rebbe references all the way back in their Torah).
If you cut it in half, you cannot grasp it fully.
Obviously, not meant to discourage you from learning anything at all😉

Just to give context to my last post (for those who don’t get subtlety)

A) I wanted to express goodwill
B) I wanted to show the pity/ sympathy is misplaced

Reason:
A) I believe the Chabad questioners here are coming from a good place (they believe they’re defending Hashem’s honor/ Yiddishkeit’s integrity) and I appreciate that. There’sa story of R Adam Baal Shem who was given great honor when he was anonymous because of his geonus etc, but when his identity was found out, there were misnagdim who were ready to attack him with stones. He said that the stones were more precious to him than the honor the day before.

Likewise… people here are uneducated on Chabad (you need to get into The Rebbe’s Torah and hear from people who actually interacted with him to assess properly) but I’m glad they care about Torah and yiddishkeit so I wish them all the brachos.

B) I’m living up life bH (as expressed in the specific Brachos shared- (besides for menuchas haguf which is completely out of my control- but I don’t worry about it either…) and I don’t need the pity. I wish everyone was
living such a life if not better…

Ps. I’m a truth seeker and as noted did my research Prus asked Rabbanim etc on this issue, so that’s that. Ive examined everything mentioned and found one incorrect practice in my surroundings which I have recently asked my colleagues to correct. If something stands between me and Hashem, I give it up. There’s no torn etc

Emunas1

Obviously you know the entire Chabad disagrees with you regarding The Rebbe being current…

And no, Ikkar of Chabad Chassidus doesn’t boil down to hisbonenus- if that were the case, we’d have mandatory hisbonenus times daily, and probably live a kollel life…

Arso- yea we’re not into being fixated on labels. But it’s important to know where we are in Avodas Hashem berech so we can evaluate our goals etc.

Here’s one source from the FR:
כשם שצריכים לדעת את החסרונות כך צריך כל אחד לדעת את המעלות שלו

Also The Rebbe would use the expression alot ידע איניש בנפשי׳ה

The Rebbe Maharash would say: the only one you’re fooling (if you want to fool yourself-ED) is yourself, and what’s the accomplishment of fooling a fool?

If you feel stuck in your avoda and need help finding ways to grow- within Chabad, we have a mashpia (ase lcha Rav) and at least one good honest friend (ukne lcha chover.)

Don’t forget your primary friend in this sense is your spouse- so see how s/he relates to you/ enjoys your company, if you want a guide for you middos.

Avira- I gather from your post that there isn’t one central message in the litvish communities (and btw I read that learning about gadlus haadam was chakira, not mussar, ? But ok) I asked because I’m curious to hear more

there’s no chutzpa meant by my question to ask you to summarize the ideals/ message of mussar in one post; I wouldn’t ask you something I can’t do myself for Chassidus Chabad:)

Yankel Berel I appreciate the sentiment of ahavas Yisrael behind your last post, and therefore I wish you (and whoever else wishes) to enjoy life the way I do (if you don’t already): to live with Menuchas hanefesh (regardless of menuchas haguf), menuchas haguf, that learning Torah should be your main enjoyment in life along with doing mitzvos bhiddur (in different ways but both deeply joyful- so that you want to find more ways to keep mitzvos bhiddur, that you be engaged all day in activities that give Hashem nachas, and have Him in mind no matter what the activity, that your children outsurpass you with their (serious) goals in Avodas Hashem at a young age, and that you feel a palpable excitement for Yiddishkeit to the point that anything else is beyond worthless, and finally that you aim to and get the most out of golus avoda, while preparing yourself and others for the Geula Shleima. All in a spirit of simcha. Ksiva Vachasima tova lshana tova umesuka!

I have a Tanya question for all who are learned in Chassidus etc (Enunah1?)

If someone speaks lashon hara UNINTENTIONALLY or, say, is lacking in iyun tefilla UNINTENTIONALLY,
they do it without thinking, but as soon as they realize it’s an aveira etc they stop/ concentrate right away- is that nichlal in beinoni or below Benoni. See the third page of perek yud Beis (in the Hebrew print) look up the three vchulus and offer your expert answers. Looking forward to seeing.

On another note, not thinking Torah in places you’re not supposed to is quite challenging. Even many songs have maamarei chazal. Any tricks?

Avira- from the language you use (and what I’ve learned- although haven’t opened that many non lubavitch hashkofa sefarim), here’s my hypothesis about mussar vs Chassidus:

With mussar you identify with your nefesh habehamis, and as such you must constantly humiliate yourself for your selfish motivations (selfish being the best of it). Nothing is pure etc. how that is conducive to true growth, you explain to me.

In Chassidus we approach the same makeup differently. We learn to treat the nefesh habehamis like a clown that no one takes seriously- but slowly identify more and more with the true self of a yid- the nefesh haElokis. As such, Yiddishkeit it’s always becoming ever more joyful, because you can connect on a deeper and deeper level with your true self, ie oneness with Hashem.

Just to add that in addition to my own research I checked with three respected Torah voices within Chabad (2 Rabbanim, 1 RY) 1 more meshichist, 1 decidedly not (less), and one towards the middle.

Btw a second coming is just a Christian as the idea of moshiach itself- ie it’s a Jewish idea too. Sorry you haven’t seen it. Rashi on Daniel, and also Medrash on how moshiach will resemble the goel rishon Moshe Rabbeinu, by first being revealed, then concealed, then revealed again. If you want exact lshonos I quoted them early on in the 5 potential candidates thread.

The Rebbe also wrote in reshimos about Eliyahu hanavi (why should we expect moshiach daily if Eliyahu hasn’t come yet) we don’t know if he’ll come in the first stage of moshiach (when he’s revealed to those that know him) or the third stage- when he’s revealed to all. (Middle stage I think was fighting the wars of Hashem- don’t trust me, find and post it- haven’t seen it in over a decade i think)

Avira- respect to you for your honesty. It makes sense you would feel that on Yom Kippur which also reveals the yechida for those who tap into it (itzumo shel yom)

To feel it on a more regular basis- Chabad Chassidus is open to you.

Am I allowed to say I’ve moved past where I was in high school?

Emunah- he would be midas habeinoni- ie acting like a beinoni, but he wouldn’t be at madreigas habeinoni-have the emotional strength to treat every aveira (including in thought) like turning on the air conditioner on a very hot sweaty shabbos. At least that’s what I gathered from Rabbi Paltiels explanation in sem.

It’s not all or nothing. Tzadik would be like finding out you ate pig

Right. So a beinoni moment is when you act like a beinoni in thought/ speech/ action for a specified amount of time using the trick The AR gives in perek 14 “b’omroi liliboi aineni rotze..,,, ki aineni rotze liyos muvdal vnifrad cvs meHashem Echad.

Rso- if you learn perek tes in Tanya you’ll learn how to locate your neshamas voice inside your body and thereby identify with it. Not so difficult:)

Good shabbos everyone!

Thanks, but I took out the .

Also expectations are important. I don’t know what your gedolim expect of you in the litvish world, but in Chabad you’re expected to work to reach beinoni. And recently I’ve added tzadik because The Rebbe upped the bar for this generation since our NFHB isn’t as coarse s as it used to be- and for me- I’ve heard one farbrengen in particular which gave a roadmap, so I realized I need to act quicker. We’ll see where we get but I find making it practical exciting

Yes we work for a lifetime. By high school I was seeing how many beinoni moments I could have, by sem i mapped out a path forward to becoming a beinoni, And recently, I’ve updated it to Tzadik.

The key thing is motivation. When you’re in touch with your Neshama and on fire for Hashem, these steps are my fun in life. If not there yet, even my NFHB knows it’s worth it to keep pressing higher. I’d all you know it’s which middos are good and which are bad, it’s gonna be real tough. Because when my NFHB is playing up it really doesn’t care if it’s bad or good. So the key is motivation and winning the NFHB over