CS

I’m kind is surprised why no one asked why/ what it means that geula will be a feminine era whereas golus was masculine… that would have been an interesting discussion. But never mind. Go on and discuss Zionism or whatever else…

Cont’
And at the same time there is a deeper meaning behind it which is the world shifting towards the feminine in preparation for the geula as mentioned…

Ujm it would be helpful to quote which part of my post didn’t sit well with you.

“ I would imagine that alarge part of Feminisms are against the Torah. I never got an answer why Feminisms in general are counter to everything.”

Just putting it out there, the Rebbe saw feminism as an essentially positive movement at its core, that was there because the world was shifting towards the feminine- as will be completed fully when moshiach comes (all over Chassidus on the pesukim אשת חיל עטרת בעלה and נקבה תסובב גבר) but emphasized that the secular implications that women could be and should be as good as men with careers etc. was erroneous, and also anti feminism, because it implies that women have to be like men in order to be worth something. Torah is the true feminism that celebrates women’s qualities. Women were spoken to first by Matan Torah, where we started off, and women will bring us to the completion of the Geula.

But there were things The Rebbe did as part of embracing this era of feminism that were not done before, such as sichos just for women, encouraging women to speak up and give their opinion, special mivtzoim for women in and much more

“It is a mistake to portray the mental health field as basing all pathology on the client being the victim of someone else’s cruelty. ”

This was meant as an example of people I know/ heard about their description of therapy- and they’re still struggling as a result…

My personal experience was one who was confident that could help me, and let’s just say that I ended up in the hospital because the solution wasn’t what therapist has said it would be, and I diligently followed instructions…

And then, less dramatic was the cbt which was plainly unhelpful. BH I recovered and emotionally is only because of Torah.

But I will grant you TLIK that therapists have several advantages: this is their parnassa so they focus on their clients and have ample time to give them etc. They also are trained in different conditions and can hopefully (not always) differentiate between a medical need and psychological need etc. This is lacking by Rabbanim who can’t grant ample time to many people to really understand what the real issue is and meet with them a set amount of time weekly for as long as they need etc.

Luckily there are already people who have thought of this and are planning a Torah training alternative to therapy course.

I completely agree with you that there are many conditions that require medical treatment like psychiatric disorders etc.

But therapy has become the new “in” thing for anyone struggling with life problems in general, low moods resulting from low self worth etc. And many of these can be addressed with Torah perspective given from someone who loves what he says.

Regarding my experience with people who are in therapy for years and have still not reached Serenity etc in contrast with those who use Torah, it just hit me that a possible reason could be because therapy starts off with the notion that the suffering person is a victim/ survivor of someone else’s cruelty. This is a quite unsettling notion. Then they spend many years in therapy trying to regain their power and control over their life and that’s very tough.

Whereas with a Torah perspective, whatever happens to you, you are not a victim as it’s in your best interests. How and why, we’re not always meant
to understand immediately. And we also know that if we work on ourselves to see it this way, we will end up seeing the good in this physical world. This is very empowering. Of course it takes work, but ultimately one ends up elevated, instead of living as a survivor

TLIK hopefully we can agree on the importance of Torah as being the first port of call when faced with a crisis in life. If the Rav/ mashpia doesn’t feel well equipped enough to help the situation, or the person himself isn’t getting the help he needs, then by all means- try therapy – preferably with a frum person etc- and see if it helps.

TLIK you write that it’s not the professionals job to teach Torah. Bingo! That’s my point. They won’t be teaching the powerful self help tools in the Torah- a proper Rav can do that.

The professionals non Jewish training teaches them how to get people better in touch with themselves and focus on their own happiness (selfish approach) while with a Torah approach, you can learn how to take your situation and use it as a springboard for growth towards Hashem. The personal situation i described earlier, which had put me in such a state of agony, revisited twice more. Each time I was able to handle it better- the second time I was able to focus on making happiness a choice to serve Hashem better. And guess what? The situation cleared up and was gone which I didn’t really think would happen. The third time I focused on bitachon, and there was no real crisis. You’re not gonna get this from even a frum therapist because just like you said- his training is not in Torah ideology, and he’s not hired to teach you Torah. So you’ll have very different outcomes.

And, that’s the reason why so many people were rooting for him to begin with. Because they came to do chessed by visiting etc, and ended up being uplifted by him. So they devoted themselves to his cause out of inspiration.

Corrected not coerced

Ok I’m willing to be coerced tlik. Hear me out.

I’m generally happy because I’ve internalized hakoras hatov, and excited because I’m blessed to be a Yid.

I don’t harbor resentment or grudges because I’ve internalized that Hashem is the One who did it, and He has my best interests in mind, not other people.

I don’t get easily angered, and when I do I forgive easily. I’m working to get to the point where I don’t get angry at all… and the tools for that are is that yes, everything that happens to me SHOULD happen, and is not an injustice because Hashem is in charge. And He only desires my good.

Fear and anxiety posted above.

I have a happy marriage BH because I’ve internalized that we’re two halves of one Neshama, and that means that if one of us isn’t happy, we’re both not happy. Taking care of my spouse is my priority in ahavas yisrael. The importance Hashem places on sholom bayis, which is the source of bracha in the home. Also, the importance of not hurting others as in onaas Devarim etc.

I’m productive as long as it doesn’t affect my health, because I’ve internalized that I’m here for a mission and want to accomplish as much as I can. On the flip side, if I can’t be active, I’m comforted by the fact that Hashem has wrought this, so right now, serving Him means accepting the lack of productivity with joy.

On the flip side, I was once referred by a doctor to a therapist because I was in a state of agony. She tried cbt on me which I found absolutely meaningless. In the end, she was so concerned by the agony she saw that she reported to the doctor to make sure I wasn’ta risk to myself. Actually, even though I was in great pain, I never became suicidal, because I’ve internalized the concept of Olam Haba, and so realized that suicide wouldn’t be a good solution…. It would just make things much worse. After that, I dismissed the therapist, and went to my mashpia. My mashpia was able to give Hashem centered hadracha based on personal experience as well as Torah knowledge, that helped me to find a lot of comfort
and strength to deal with the pain.

So… if your frum mental health professionals train people in the above ideals (which my impression is that they don’t) then I stand corrected tlik.

Look I don’t think I need to add anything…. As far as my doctor, you don’t know what I was there for but it wasn’t stress. And when I asked him what I was supposed to do with this me time, he said play games… yes there’sa need to step back sometimes, but Torah is all about servicing others. If you need to take care of yourself first to do that better, then ok, but the focus is on serving Hashem and making the world a better place. Putting others first etc. (If you need to be healthier to put others first, fine but the focus is on getting back to your Avodas hakodesh.) whereas “Me time” implies I’ve done my dues for you, now I’m doing what I want to do- focusing on myself. And what do I do with this self focused time? I waste it on meaningless activities… This was just one example… I see you’re standing at a different place, but I’m glad that some posters understand the point.

Just a disclaimer (for at least one poster) I was not hired by Chabad to be the official mouthpiece of Chabad on this site. I guess I should be honored by the insinuation that people would think so.

However, my posts are all based on things I’ve learned or the chinuch I’ve been given which is all Torah as illuminated by Chassidus, as well as farbrengens given by Chassidishe role models. When asked I’ve given the source. And if I’m incorrect, I’m happy to be corrected. I do not think it necessary to post this on every thread I may post on so I hope this is enough to calm the nerves of certain posters who can always refer to this at their convenience😀

TLIK I stand by my post. You’re basically saying that Torah is great for “erudition in Torah”, but for practical real life help and application, it’s dangerous for someone to ask a Rav/ mashpia for advice. I’m actually shocked no one has protested this notion. I could go on and on with examples etc. but I’ll just suffice with a few words unless someone would like elaboration.

Just like you can teach a horse to be a great horse but you can’t reach a horse to play chess, so too a goy, or goyishe training will not be able to help a Yid achieve true happiness (which is dependent on our connection to Hashem) or fulfillment.

For example, sholom Mordechai worked on his bitachon and was always happy, truly happy, in a very dark situation. The other prisoners went to the prison therapist and were prescribed tranquilizers so they wouldn’t commit suicide. You wouldn’t expect the therapist, non Jewish or Jewish to train you in bitachon, because that’s not within their experience/ their job description.

I went to a doctor once, who instead of just doing his official job, took the liberty of telling me that I should just have lots of me time and not take on too much etc.

BH I was educated in Torah enough to know that I can differentiate between the care I needed that was the doctors job, and the advice which was not in line with Torah…

If your Rav is not someone who is successfully married/ successful in his state of mind/ personal life skills, then find another Rav. A Rav is supposed to be a life example and possible mentor, not just a good intellectual.

Sorry I just thought I have to add that really, people who needed this kind of guidance always turned to their local rabbi/ rebbetzin (assuming they had a great marriage etc. themselves.) it’s a real machla we have today, that many people’s first port of call is “mental health professionals” Who are trained by goyim/ goyishe courses etc. (as if they’re so successful in marriage/ life…) Granted, there’s a need for therapists etc. When someone is actually ill, but for direction in life- we have the Torah! And people who live it. You can hear more from Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin who is writing a book on Torah self help tools that he used to be happy even in prison….

Within Chabad we have a mashpia system set up, where everyone is encouraged to have a mashpia as a life coach and go to person, and also to be mashpia to others…