Chaim87

@avram in MD
I am not well versed in these fancy English phrases and philosophical debate kind of terms that you use.

I work at large corporations and am friends with I’d say 100+ non frum or goyim. The idea that have connections to internet is doable in 2025 is completely Amish. Take religion out of it and you’ll see the entire world runs on internet and its devices . From cars to appliances to every day living . This is just the basic reality. Who doesn’t shop online in 2025? I bh have a large family. Imagine if I didn’t have Amazon or target to shop online. Just buying Pesach between clothing and food etc which needs in person is a nightmare . If I had to be busy buying everything physically it would be impossible . Sure before internet that’s how they did it . But yes once upon a time they didn’t have cars either Then there is Waze for directions, swiping your phone at airports to get on planes and so on and so forth. Internet is so part and parcel of life in 2025, that’s it’s completely absurd to say it’s not a necessity like electricity. It’s only because you live in the TAG space that it’s sold like that . In the real world that’s so far from the Truth.

Now one can argue that it’s so dangerous that ok let’s be extra holy and live like the Amish. I think that’s for those that are above and beyond but not something you can expect the broad community to uphold by.

And to be clear that doesn’t mean no filters . But we need to start realising internet is a necessity but it’s costly to also require every family to pay for those fllters. TAG with its connections and expertise can and should cover its costs..

P.S. I am not sure what your whatever is but it’s clear that TAG donations are maser money and it’s a charity

@avrahm in MD
Frum Jews are not supposed to live like the Amish. Not having devices is living like Amish. To be clear cvs am I knocking those that chose to be above and beyond but you can’t say that it’s expected of every frum Jew. Devices are a necessity . You can say filters are expected . But to say not having devices is a norm is just not true. (Of course tag says otherwise but that’s a bubble ) Yes people need devices and yes when Tesla is 199 a month and everything else 399 where most will have internet soon anyhow it’s also a necessity.

The growing movement to live without devices is tiny. That’s a myth that tag likes to sell. Furthermore, that doesn’t mean no other internet connections like iPads , teslas , smart kitchens etc . It’s strictly a smart phone discussion and it’s a tiny blip. It’s not growing.

Lastly of course it’s a full tzedaka like tomchai Shabbos . That’s very clear and yes of course maser is ok. Now you are trying to twist things .

@somejew
“Again, to be clear, the Shulcha Aruch (and the general derech hapsak) demands a posek explain his novel reasoning for the public and show the talmudic sources that he claims obligate the public to listen. ”

This is dishonest . You made this up. No such requirement exists when its a Hashkafa question. Zionsims is hashkafa. Mesorah is enough and as long as the person is a tzadik thats enough. You refuse to respond because I won’t stand to you makin up the rules. Here are the rules, if a ztadik says hashkafa in public thats enough.

@☕ DaasYochid ☕
every yid wants to be good. There are ways to reach them too but that means don’t charge. And yes it may mean to stop banning things like 24-6. By the way it’s a lifesaver for me. My children would be on YouTube like during Covid if not.
Free filters for all is the basic starting point

@avram in MD
In 2025 living without internet devices is akin to being Amish. Is electricity a “necessity”? I see the Amish live fine without it. But this is so the normal and such an added enhancement that it’s currently a necessity.

More over, at the end of the day TAG calls themselves a tzedaka. My rov collects for them and they even make a Shabbos TAG. The underlying understanding is that are out to get people to filter devices. What they say or write to cover themselves is Symantics.

Let me just say one more thing. My wife often says about tznuis asifas, that the women who come are already the more ehrlich tznuis women. It never attracts the huge growing crowd of people who really need to hear their message. It really does very little to actually enhance tznuis if you don’t attract that crowd. (Especially that many of the younger generation copy them) it’s a feel good thing but its impact is minimal. The same is with TAG. The ehrlich ones already know that anything that has internet connection needs a filter. You need to
go after the growing crowd who buys flat screens to watch Netflix because after all it’s not TV which is trief. I can list 25 more things, but you get the idea. That’s who you need to get. It’s a growing trend and not getting smaller. The way you get them is via free filters or you won’t win them.

My key point still remains that I expect more from a charity and that it’s small minded not to do their full job to the end which should include free filters for all with a highly suggested donation of $20 a month .

@Avram in MD
1) As a shita not everyone holds you need a filter. But in realty the schools and mosdos take a stromng stand and require you to follow TAG. (You can’t become a stoilner chusid just for your school)
2) Sure you can say outside of work its not a necssity. But thats not really true. You are living in a bubble. In 2025 almost everyone uses Internet sometime or another. Those that don’t have will call a more “modern familyu member” etc. Technically yes you don’t need to own a device. But cmon its not relastic. The entire world completely runs on internet. This bubble that you built that its not necissty is a bubble. Everything runs on interent today and its normal to not buy things on Amzaon. You won’t to be machmiror extra holy and say no thats a very respectable thing. Bascially, if you took religon out of it, there is no way you wouldn’t have devcies. You only don’t have it because you are relgious. That means its a necssity. A necissity doesn’t mena life or death. It means what’s the norm for today. (Just like a phone, electricity or car. After all we can live amish too)
3) Don’t tell me they aren’t a tzedka. They fundraise and make a Shabbos TAG> My rav encourages us to give tzedaka to them. I refuse to get stuck on technicalities of what it “says” on its website. Its a tzedka . You and I know that. Don’t drei akup.
4) Yes I would donate for free filters. And yes TAG should go fundraise for free filters. That’s exactly my point. Stop doing a half baked job when you are a tzedaka anyhow.. And I don’t believe they can’t fiundraise. There is so much money BH today. Our streets are paved with gold kmat. And klal yisroel gives alot to tzedaka.

Bottom line is there are two sides to Zionism and shikul hadas or mesorah is needed. Don’t let anyone bully you into passuling one side . That person who does is a pathological liar

@yankel berel
The reasons no sefarim were written to answer Satmar were the follwing
1)Its hashkafa not halcha
2) You only need to write sefarim if you are against zionsim because how else do you make your point. Its the only method of protest. If you are pro zionism all you have to do is acts of zionsim. by acting in certain ways or joining govts etc, you are in essence exclaining your shita. But what do you do when anti?
3) The reba zya wa s a holy jew but had alot of power and the chasdim were strong. Its very hard to debate him. if you did you were considered less pure. Just ask Klausenberg. (I know of someone who did write a sefer defending zionsim and his warehouse of sefarim got burned down). So do then say why didn’t people write sefarim after the bullying that went on, is in itself a bully tactic. To be clear the reba zya wa sa holy man and he meant lshem shomaim. Especially at a time when so many were going off both before and right after the war, a strong tough stance was needed. But in the spirt of fighting to be pure that was the outcome
4) By the time the reba zya wrote his sefer, Zionsim was a bit of a mute point. The medina was already defacto and the ideology of whether we should go along with the fight to establish a medina was a done deal. Furthermore, the new issue of the day was that it was secular. Till Began came along, not only was it secular which is bad enough but Ben Gurion YMS was out there to shmad every frum jew and was a Lehachis jew. So anyone charedi had to fight those things like gyuis bnos. It wasn’t a time to start defending the idea of zionsim since we needed to oppose the govt anyhow because of its shamd.

@ Avram in MD
1) not everyone holds you need a filter. And not everyone holds you need such costly filters. Yet Tag became the defacto rav. So that’s right away different than hashgachas. The cost is per device is far more.
2) some of us need smartphones and tablets . And in 2025 is a basic necessity vs a luxury, even if you are moser nefesh not to
3) Leaving the first two points aside, the key point still remains that TAG is a tzedaka not a business. Its point is to help people get filters. Sure you can hairsplit and say it’s only here to assist and advise. But once you’re in that space and collecting money as a tzedaka for that cause, it’s small minded and misleading (as you admit) to stop midway. No other tzedaka is such cheapskates in 2025. I keep on deferring to bikkur Cholim who could just help facilitate easier hospital stays. But they do more . They give you free food and even free sleeping arrangements. They do the full job. The same is with any other tzedaka that I know. If you want people to really not use unfiltered internet do it to the fullest. Stop being so cheap. (I suspect there is also Shultz involved)

@somejewiknow
Nope its not shulchan aruch, its your own made up interpretation of it. of course you twist our torah to find a source. Furthermore. Zionism isn’t a halcha issue, its hashkafa. Everyone knows Mesora and psak is strong. Zionism has strong mesora. And R kook ZL was a huge gadol.

@Menachem Shmei

Cmon you know that TAG is the one who sets the Taknos of what most be filtered. And while i think they are extra machmir, they aren’t just the advisor. they are the one who sets the guidelines for the shcools and rabbonim.

Furthermore, again you bring up Bikkur cholim, imgaine for a second that Bikkur cholim only provided vending machines but not free food. Would you really call it a tzedka still? Like very nice they help “facilatate food” when people need it. But Cmon that would hardly be called a tzedaka. Your compasrion to “free houses” has no shaychis as that has nothing to do with the Cholah or being sick. And by the way, I shouldn’t say no shayhcis, in fact guess what? Bikkur cholim DOES GIVE FREE HOUSES. Yes while your loved one is in a hospital they offer a free place to sleep nearby.l There you go they do theiur job to the fuillest. They could have stopped at just food. Who am I to feel “entitled” to free sleeping space too?

To your point about “sense of entitlement” , if you are a private business like Techloq gezintahiet, I don’t say that they should give me free interent. But if you are a TZEDAKA who belongs to the tzibur , then yes we are “entitled” to demand that it does a full job vs half baked job. When you combine the fact that the costs often stem from their psak and that its a tzedaka, its a very fair ask. I love your bikkur cholim mashal because that prove smy point. They don’t stop at just vedning manchines, they don’t stop at just free food. They even give free houses. In other words when a loved one is in a hospital, you know Bikkur cholim will take care of all your lving needs around the hospital FREE OF CHARGE. Now thats called doing the job.,

@Menachem Shmeil,
“I don’t think you understand how economics, especially Jewish economics, works. If something is free, no one will pay hundreds of dollars for it. ”
Thats false and here is why. If you combine requesting donations with the fact that you have a better fundrasing mechasim since you offer free things, its not going to cost millions. Ask Bokkur cholim if they think they’d raise as much as they raise if they would just provide vending machines vs free food. The sale spitch is the wow how much you give to yenim. Secondly, unlike Bikkur cholim, each time a perosn walks in and gets a filter the rep would ask can you kindly help us defray the cost by paying for it? I think most would say yes. And when its on a person to perosn basis vs just a sign people give.

Maybe you go raise 1 million dollars to pay for people’s filters.
Thats a silly argument. I am not a fundraiser, don’t know how to, don’t have the connections nor the expertise in this like TAG. Furthermore, I am not the one going around to shuls yelling that you need filters. TAG is in that space already.

TAG doesn’t claim to do that, so they don’t have to.
I know what they “claim” they do. But when your rav speaks during shabbos TAG or when there is a broad cmapiagn the image and vibe they give is that they get you filters .

You keep on falling on the same arguments that I refuse to take as a given. The hairsplitting that they only do a “half job” even if they claim that’s all they do is both misleading and disinegnious. It also them being cheapsaktes and small minded. Don’t tell me I should fundraise when i am not in that space. Theyc ollect a few million anyhow whats the big deal to up it another 1-2M. Its not so expensive. At a time when middle class familes stuglle just to buy eggs why must they place more burdens on us?

P.S> another good mashol would be a shul membership. I don’t know too mnay shuls that really don’t give a seat to those that don’t pay. 90% of the ime people feel there is an achryus on their own and pay. the 10% who don’t most are going through hard times. But oy vey the shul nebach has to fundraise for them. it cost money. You understand that this is the way we work.

@Always_Ask_Questions,

Yes I don;t deny that they offer good advice and tips too. Although I think their chinyukisha approach that everything is assur and of suspicion first hand (like their 24-6 ban) without facing reality that you need a kosher outlet is misguided. But that’s a side point. The main piint is, awareness if very nice but tachlis giving the free filter is what clinches a deal.

@Menachem Shmeil Firstly its not $100 a year. For a typicla faimly with multiple devices it can cost $400-$500 a year. Thats a alot of money. To you second point, I fail to see your point. Why should you be obligated to pay fpor the filter too> because you are svaing lives? You aren’t obligated to teach people importance either. But you understand there is a need to so people get protection. Sometimes yes its the free filkter that clinces the deal. If you are dedciated to this mitzva I’d think its incumbent to do it fully. this sense of entitlement that alll i ahve to do is educate and not more is just wrong. Once you start you have to do it to its fullest. And yes more people will get filters if its free. Even now, not everyone does it just because they see the need 100%. they do it bvecaus ethe rav or yeshiva forced them and then they cheat or cut corners on what they can get away with. And sometimes its not even intentionally, its just a mindset that when i have to pay I hesitate if I really need it. (Its like on the flip side, I don’t go to free chol hamoed trips but if its a $5 entry fee then I go because even though its “only $5” people don’t come a smuch when they are charged.) And so I beg to differ on your notion of taht they shouldn’t go the last leg.

And I”ll repeat it again why not go that last leg? What does it cost already if most people will pay anyhow? And you’ll get more donations. In an environment where so much money is flowing. People raise $5M over shabbos, Gevrim make brissim that cost $500K like nothing , you really acn’t raise $1M for filters? Like why are we even debating if they are obligated or not? Why not just do it? why be so small minded?

Since our last conversation, Trump has forcefully attacked Yemen, has demoted Adam who was a trouble maker with Israel and continues to call out Hamas bluffs. Trump
may be the wicked king achashverosh that saves us.

By the way I agree that he also tanked my 401k and I am not in denial that he may wreck the economy. But my brothers lives and the issue with Hamas by far supersedes this

@ Menachem Shmei
My friend isn’t a tzedaka trying to convince me to get filters when I am not yet convinced. TAG is a tzedaka Their end goal is to make sure people aren’t nichshoel with the internet . What do you think citifield was about ? You think R matsyhu started it just for a limited goal of “awareness” or was it to make sure you end yo having filters?

@Always_Ask_Questions

Trump increased the deficit by close to $4T before Covid.
During COVID another $3T+ where a good chunck was a waste that enriched people and fueled inlfation. It also paid too many people not to work. I get it as COVID but it was still overkill.

Note Obama forced by Ryan did limited spending with sequester.

Re Medicad, I am recently applied. There is no reason that it takes two months to review. Why can’t AI look at my 2023 tax return and read the W2’s I submitted? Its a line item review. You still need a human eye to read that? A computer cant generate and read the vital income information? I use Chat GPT for work all the time. Every credit card used technology for it. Granted at times you need humans but for a simple case like me for example? And so the answer is spend more on Govt , a one time expense and then cut. be smart

I think some of this is overkill and revising history a bit. Yes Rabbi J.B. did indeed battle to keep his corwd from becming conservative jews and offered a more open minded approach. But the truth is the most of the Litfsiha world pre war was pretty much like the modern otrhodox . Rabbi J.B> wasn’t offering anew approach. This was just how it was done in Lita. Many famous RY’s including R Hutner, R Ruderman and others went to college. R Arons daughter went to college. And many women from Lita didn’t cover their hair. There were a few very frum such as R Elchanon zl and Briska rav. But as whole most of Lita were not “yeshvish” and would look today more like the modern orthodox community. In the 1930’s & 40’s Torah vodaath wasn’t so different then Yitzchok Elchnaon. Thy even contemplated copying Rabbi DR Revel and creating a college to. They always allowed college and until the 1980’s allowed mixed non jewish college too. So Rabbi J.B. was just contuning the litfsha approach.

@Menachem Shmei
i beg to differ. Firstly people especially those hesitant if the rav or school pushes they’d go if it’s free. The lines when things are free are always larger.

Secondly even if people aren’t machsiv it I don’t think
It’s true that the filter will do very little. Once your phone is filtered you aren’t just buying a second phone. You’ll just keep that phone . A filter isn’t just like a separate item . It’s attached to your device . Once it’s there you’ll use it.

Lastly I Guarantee if you ask an outsider what tag does they will say it provides filters . No it’s not a chutzpah to ask a mosod to do what it’s assumed it does. And years ago it did pay for filters. It’s only when they advanced. Like I noted this is hair splitting. A mosid should fully see through to its goal or it’s not a tzedaka

☕ DaasYochid ☕
My analogy to bikkur Cholom and the way you explain it is exactly my point. Bikkur chilom could just place banding machines that charge so that people have access to food when they are vulnerable. That’s a cheeseed too. But they understand that part of the mitzva is to just give when people are vulnerable. The same is in ruchnyas . When people are vulnerable and you are trying to help with filters just give. Furthermore many bikkut choloms ask for donations in the hospital . And I gladly swipe my card.

Re Tag isn’t about funding fiiltets rather it’s access. Again you are hair splitting double fold. Firstly, its goal is that you have a filter. Part of that is to fund it. Again it’s like saying bikkur Cholom isn’t about funding the food it’s about helping you access kosher food. It’s silly and absurd to split the two. And there is plenty of money for both.

Re your last point, that’s just again a moot point. I don’t have the know how or the expertise nor connections to be able to open or take on such a thing. They have the whole system set up already. It would also result in lots of duplicacy and waste of Money.

To sum it uo, Tag is in that space already. It’s hairsplitting to say they only help with accessing but don’t give the filter. It’s Klien kepatick and I think a cop out plus probably some Shultz involved too

HaKatan
Furthermore I still stick to what I said that most gedolim were against Zionism because of secularism and not because of the ideology

@Yserbius123
it’s not $10 for a family who owns 8 or 9 devices at times.
And by the way a pc is $150 . Amex offers a free dell laptop just fyi. But that’s a side point.
And if you aren’t on top of things everytime you get a new device you need to cancel the old one or you’ll be charged. It’s also more like $15-$20 a month per device vs $13.
Lastly, it’s not just the cost it’s the idea that people are less pron to do something if you charge them. It’s the way humans are. And not everyone is convinced that a filter is an obligation . It’s looked at as a nice thing.

Let me ask you if it’s really not so much money why can’t TAG pay for it . They run a multi million dollar organization and they can’t pay $10 a month? It’s so much money ? As I noted I bet bikur Cholom gives out more meals a day then TAG does filters. And food cost more than $10 a month? So if b cholim puts together the money why can’t TAG?

@Always_Ask_Questions
T was good for Israel in his first term and that further strengthens my view this time around to. We agree on that.

No “Big wars”? And exactly what “BIG wars” did Obama or Biden have? You mean worldwide no “BIG wars”? You really think that the president has so much influence to solve the worlds problems. Like Russia would not have taken Ukriane under trump? I don’t buy that. Trump had luck.

“In internal politics, all kind of stupid things and spending was happening, with no hope ahead”
Do you know how much Trump increased spending and bloated our budget even before COVID? Then came COVID where Trump spent like a druken sailor with no accountability. I believe in total the deficit increased by $7T under trump. I am gald so many yidden got PPP and so many got paid to sit home and not work.($600 stimulus) on top of $1200 per person stimulus. But you think that doesn’t cause inflation??? And who are you kidding about Tarrifs. Its such a petty thing. China & mexico produce what would we mostly have no interest in producing and for much cheaper.. The old republican free economy and open trade is a far better policy. Immigration, we need immigrants. I need my goyta and so does your local grocery store.

Trump also lies about crime that immigrants cause. (as if our hands were so clean when we were immigrants in the early 1900’s). He blows up stroies and makes it up. Same is true, about the stolen elections fraud. All a complete lie and his ilk drink the kool aid. They pick on one small incident and that becomes the buggyman. Same with Biden being corrupt because of Hunter. These are all lies with 10% of truth that becomes the narrative.

The federal govt is indeed inefficient. But not because its workers are goofing off and ripping off the govt. Its ineffienct because its lacking technology and living off paper trails plus old legacy systems written in the 1970’s. When i apply for medicaid it should be able to use AI and other tools to decide upon my approval within 24 hours. It shouldn’t take 3 months and require the human eye. Laying off employees isn’t the answer. The answer is making a short term investment where you spend more to modernize and retrain employees. (Then if someone resists retraining then yes he/she should be laid off). Musks ideas will just cause more pain in the long run.

The only policy which I agree with is about transgenders and schools who push educating that. i think thats exaggerated too. But there even if 10% is true it needs to stop.

Make no mistake. I am a Trump supporter who is not fooled by the mans deceit nor do I buy into most of his horrible policies. I do think the man comes with alot of risk. But what can i do, i can’t bear the thought of Oct 7 (I still shake when tuck my children into bed thinking about the last time Yarden Bibas tucked his children in on Oct 6). And to me, that’s so overwhelming and perosnal that anyone who will stand up to the palsestinains with the might of Trump superceeds anything else.

@ DaasYochid ☕

“No, their point is to encourage and help facilitate installing filters.”

Thats whitewashing and using excuses like TAG does because they are lazy to fundraise. When they started the mosad years ago it was to get people to have filters. Everyone knows that. This fine line that its only here to “raise awareness” and facilitate but not to install is just an excuse. Most pople who donate to the tzedka do so because they want people to get filters. This kind hairsplitting is an excuse and frankly its a little deceiving once you call it a tzedka. And even if you feel no this was only their mission statement, since they are in this space and do all the work already, it wouyld be incumbent on them to be big boys and go the full route. Stop the hair splitting.

I get your argument that there isn’t funding but I don’t buy it. BH people are so wealthy that its not hard to get funding. As I mentioned above, Aderi torah gets $5M+ for one shabbos and TAG can’t raise some money for filters? BH there is a shefa of gelt for everything under the sun. Furthermore, like I noted, TAG would still”request” that everyone who gets a filter pay and 90% would pay. You only need to raise for the 10%. Maybe 20%. I am not buying that there is no money for it. I think its mindset. Like es pas nisht to just give it out for free.

@HaKatan
Yes, even gedolim wrote nice titles. They had no choice, as Rabbi Kook was very powerful politically, and they had to deal with him.

Again with your lies. I thoguht you said something thats in writing can’t be interpreted?? Now you are doing just that. So Satmar reba sefarim can’t be that he was really just anti secular and this was just a way to stop the secularism. Thats would be called an Interpretation. But all the gedolim claling him such high names including those in europe were because he was “powerful”. No interpretation there?

And whats the reason that after his passing for many years gedolim like R Elyashiv pubclally held him in high respct? Also because they were scared of his “power”?

And was he really so powerful politically that gedolim in Europe should be scared? Give me a break. He wasn’t so powerful. Ypu made that up and continue to make up youtr own rules. He was just well respected.

Botttom line, its Ok to say that most gedolim did not agree with zionsim from a hashkafa. We therefore need to go like the majorty. But to say that there is zero of a makor in out torah or to say its heresy is just your own hot headedness making things up.

@crazykanoiy
I think the issues you raise don’t really hurt Jews that much. Just as you see with the maga Jews that nothing Trump does can be bad because they drink the maga kool aid , I see that with you. I don’t think it’s intentional but I think your mind is gravitating to the trees vs the forest. Humans tend to believe what they want to. It’s very difficult to truly be honest intellectually when there is such high emotions such as with Trump. I find this to be the case on both sides of the aisle.

I saw you threw in musk as a Jew hater. There is no proof to that other than how he moved his hands once without thinking. He was attacked for some bizarre Nazis salute. If you step back and think logically why would musk even do that in public? He also denied that intention. It makes no sense . But the conclusion right away is that he is a Nazis. That’s exactly how things get blown up. And to be fair, musk is very dangerous. That further eggs people on to hate him and rightfully so. But it clouds judgement from the obvious which is that he never intended to salute despite how despicable of a person he is.

And so back to Trump and Israel. Of course what’s going on in colleges have a huge impact. It’s why Biden delayed certain weapons shipments to Israel and condemned them a few times. It’s also physically scary for the students who are present in college. It’s tangibley dangerous right now. Will Carlson fame fade away or will he have a greater influence on Americans in the future? I don’t have a glass ball nor will I stand here and defend him. (.personally I think the man just wants attention and has no ideology at all)

I get your concern about future repercussions.
Boruch D I get what you are saying . I wouldn’t call your concerns secondary issues. But I think what both you and crazy knoy miss is that, this is an emergency right now. There is no time to think . We need to do what’s best right now because it’s the worse it’s been since the holocaust. Trump clearly doesn’t fall for Hamas charades and has Israel’s back on this . It’s the first time the Arabs and the U.N. Are being told to their face that all 2m Palestinians are terrorists . Don’t fall for the charades. And the world can’t deny it anymore. It finally sets the playing field and ups the aunte. That with Israel having the green light plus bringing hostages home are all so important that if that’s the price to pay for having Trump we will clean up his mess later