GAON

Gam,
“Okay, going with your example. What is wrong with wearing skin colored clothing? I can think of two issues- 1) it’s provocative 2) maras ayin.”

Another difference is skin is a definite Ervah and provocative, which is why its applicable even to girls. Hair is not exactly that only when intact. If hair would be that much provocative girls would be considered an Ervah for girls as well.
Note: some poskim are even mattir to say Kriyas Shma in presence of uncovered hair where going with uncovered hair is the norm – but never any other body parts… (see Aruch hashulchan Ch 71, Shvilel L’David Ch 3)

?? ???? – ???? [????] ???? ????, ????? ??????, ????? ?????? ???? ??????. ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????, ???? ???? .???? ????? ??? ???? ????
– ????? ??? ??? ?? ????, ?? ???? ???-

slominer,

Do they wear a snood or tichel only ? As a Matpachot alone is not enough, you need two Kisuim…

The above is exactly the words of one of the most prestigious Sphardi Poskim over 50 yrs ago:

????? ??? ?????? ????? ??”?, ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????????

???? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????, ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? – ??????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????, ???? ???? ?????, ??? ???? ????? ???? – ?????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???… ??? ?? ???? ????? ???… ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???, ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????, ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??????, ??”? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????. ?”?.

????? ???? ????, ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????, ???? ???”? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????, ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????, ???? ????? ?????”? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??????, ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??????, ???? ????? ???? ????, ????? ???? ??? ???????, ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????, ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????”? ????? ??, ???? ????? ?????? ??, ????? ???? ?????”? ????? ??, ??? ?? ???? ???? ?????”.

– ??”? “????? ????” – ??? ?’, ??”? ??’ ?”?

Chacham Rav Ovadia quotes the above as well and argues on his reasoning, but as quoted above, its in sync with one the great previous Achronim.

I believe, had he seen his words he would have considered it..

“The reason why married women cover their hair”
“Do you know why the Halacha is that women must cover their hair?”

I will quote one of the previously great Gadolim who lived 250 years ago – The Rav of Mitz and was a Talmid muvhak of the Shages Aryeh (who was also previously Rav of Mitz):

:????? ??? ???? ????? ????, ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???’

????? ????? ????. ?????? ????? ??? ???, ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ,???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ????? ???.. .???????? ????? ????, ???? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??????, ??? ?????? ???? ?????, ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????, ???? ???? ?? ????????

??? ???? ?????, ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? – ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????. ??? ?? ???? – ???? [????] ???? ????, ????? ??????, ????? ?????? ???? ??????. ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????, ???? ???? .???? ????? ??? ???? ????… ??? ???? ??????? ???.
?????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????, ???? ?? ?????? .????? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ?? ????? ???? ???????, ????? ???? ?????, ?????? ???? ?????.

??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????, ???? ????? ?????. ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????, ????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??????. ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????, ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????, ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ????

– ????? ??? ??? ?? ????, ?? ???? ???-

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=10108&st=&pgnum=392

As you cans see he clearly states that there is NO specific reason why it’s considered an Erveh:

??? ?? ???? – ???? [????] ???? ????, ????? ??????, ????? ?????? ???? ??????. ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????, ???? ???? .???? ????? ??? ???? ????

Dance,
“And anyone who thinks that a woman’s modesty isnt connected to what’s on her head doesn’t understand modesty at all.”

Agreed – and “modesty” is defined by Halacha – not by books, professors and who knows who and what else.

i.e. and as long as the wig is in a modest form (let that be clear – NOT peritzus ) – even if it is created out of ones VERY OWN hair is 100% muttar once the minhag has been established.

Are there levels in Tznius ? – Yes!
Can you go Lefnim Meshuras haDin ? That is up to each individual separately with the guidance of their Rav.

We have no issue with you or anyone else accepting upon yourselves hidurim and chumros and, I respect you for that – but don’t impose it on others. Especially, when it’s based on misinformation or misquotes, which is not your fault at all, as how should you know? You never truly studied Gemara Rishonim and Poskim etc. rather – I blame those books. You read a book or two representing that side of the argument and you became all passionate about it – nothing wrong! Kol Hakavod, being passionate about a mitzvah is a great thing. But don’t expect everyone to agree or share your visions and beliefs, especially if it goes against their poskim.

If you are really interested in the truth – you should represent all the above and other quotes to your “respected Talmud Chacham”, as you probably didn’t comprehend the significance of the sources presented above, and how it goes against the book “sources” quoted.

I will quote more of how some of the sources were misrepresented or taken out of context in the following posts.

Dancing,

You keep on repeating yourself, well, I will quote some new sources clearly stating like the SHT”G that the heter is in Reshus haRabim and NATURAL hair.

Note – I hope you realize, you don’t pasken from books and so-called Kol Koras.

The words of our holy poskim are there for all to see, and therein is where the source of psak has and will always come forth ?? ???? ???”? ??”? !

Here are the words of the Rema (CH 303) clearly stating the heter of Pe’ah Nuchris in Reshus haRabim and NATURAL looking hair:

:???? ??? ??? ?’
??? ????? ????? ??????, ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????, ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???????? ?????. ??”? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ????.

Herein are the words of the Pri Megadim Ch 71 clearly stating in Reshus haRabim and NATURAL looking hair:

??? ???. ???? ??? ?????, ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ?????, ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???’ ????, ????? ???? ????? .
???? ???? ????????, ?? ???? ????? [???? ????? “???? ???”, ????? ??????, ???? ??? ????????, ?? ??????? ????. ???? ??? ????, ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????, ??? ??????? ??? ??????. ??”?. ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????, ?? ??? ????? ?? ???”? [????? ???”?] ?????, ???? ?????? ???? ??????? (?? ??.) ????? ???? ??? ????, ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???, ??? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??????, ????”.

:????? – ??? ??”? ??’ ?”?

????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???, ?? ??? ??
????? ????????, ?? ????? ?????, ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ????????
?????, ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????, ?? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????
???? ????, ?”? ???? ???? ???. ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????
????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????????, ??? ??? ????? ?????
??????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????, ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? –
“????? ????? ?????- ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????, ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????

:???? ?????? – ??? ???? ???? ?”? ???? ???? ??? ?

?. ?? ????? ???? ??’ ?”? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????, ??? ??? ????? ????, ?? ??? ???? ????, ?? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???, ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????. ???? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ??”? ?”? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?”? ???? ??? ???”? ????? ????? ????????? ?”? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??????.

????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???’ ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????”?. ???? ???????? ??? ??? ???
– ???? ?????? – ???? ???? ???? ?”? –

:???? ???
?”? ??”?: ??? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????????, ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??????, ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??”?. ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????, ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ..

: ??? ????

“??? ??? ??? ?????. ??”?. ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??”? ?????, ???? ????
?????” ??”? ??’ ?”? ?”? ?’

“????. ???? ???, ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???. ??? ???? ????? ????? ??
???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ?? ??????… ????? ??????? ?????? ?????
????, ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????”? ???”? ??? ????? ??? ???
???? ????? ????? ????, ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??????, ??”? ?????? ??? ??
??? ?????? ???? ????, ??? ??? ????. ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???”
– ??? ???? ??”? ??’ ??”? ?”? ? –

All the above have clearly sated that the issue in concern was Natural Hair and Reshus haRabim!

CASE CLOSED!

Slonim,

Zalzvaser has made a very legit point, generally speaking; this is exactly how MANY minhagim developed i.e. via circumstances. The way they dressed in Spain and they way they dressed in Morroco and later in other countries constantly changed, if you look into history.

Somehow, Chassidim and Charedim decided to put the “clock” on a hold. Some put the hold to 1920’s (Chabad hats), 1940’s (Yeshivish hats) some at 1800’s, some 1700’s (Chassidim wearing white socks and knickers) etc.

The point of going in a certain dress code is to differentiate ourselves, so everyone picked a diff level in the course of time, as the Goyish world changed we stayed with the old one – Its all relative. As for the change in Kisui Rosh, that is another topic…soon.

I will quote the words of the Posek Hador 150 yrs ago in sefer ??? ??????, better known as The ‘???? ?????’ , after answering and explaining the position of the above ??? ????? he adds :

?”? ??”?: ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???”? – ????? ????? ?? – ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???’ ???”? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??????? … ??”? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????.

“The entire issue of Maris Eyin does not pertain where many do wear pe’ah nuchris… Especially where all don a ??? ????? …then all will automatically claim “she’s surely wearing a wig”. Hence, there is no concern of any ????? ??? in that case. ”
The Mishnah Brurah ch 71 quotes the above as well, leHalacha.
The above concludes:
??”? ??? ???? ???”? ” ???? ???? ??? ??? ???????”, ??”? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????, ???? ????? ???, ??”? ?????? (????”?) ???”? ?”?, ????? ??? ?”? ???? ?? ??????, ????? ????? ?????… ????? ???? ????? – ???? ???? ????? ??, ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???, ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????”?, ??”? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?”? ???’ ??”? ???? ??????, ????? ????”?.

Similar to the above wrote his ‘colleague’ Hagaon Rav Shlomo Kluger ZTL; differentiating between the Magen Avrohom’s times and his, as the following.

:?”? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??”?
??? ??”? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????, ???? ????? ???? ?? – ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ????? – ??????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????, ???? ?????, ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??, ????? ?????? , ??”? ???”? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??”? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? – ??? ???? ???? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ????? – ????? ???? ???? ??????? ????, ??? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ?”? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? – ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ??? – ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????, ?”? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??????…

???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?”? ?”?…. ??? ????? ?? ??”? ????? ???? ????? ???’ ???? ??”? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???, ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ????, ?? ???? ????, ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?????,…
?? ?????? – ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? – ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???, ??”? ???? ????? ???? ???, ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ??”? ?????, ??”? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????”? ?????.

As we can see, his Issur is mainly based on the fact that the concept of going with Pe’ah Nuchris was not accepted and spread out, as clearly indicated that ‘Maris Eyin’ is not that it ‘looks like hair’, rather, it’s just that the ones seeing are not aware of her donning a Pe’ah Nuchris and will therefore assume it as ones own hair, as was the case in his times that many did indeed go with own uncovered hair.
As we clearly see from his words:
“?”? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? – ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???”
“?? ?????? – ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????- ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????”

The same differentiation we find in the words of the Pri Megadim in Ch 7.
– to be cont .

“are the people here that are defending the halachik right to wear sheitels also saying that there isn’t a problem with the sheitels being worn today –

Read the earlier posts – we were quiet clear – – no one is defending immodest sheitels.

“Yes I’m 97 ke”h I Baruch hashem have 6 children & 39 grandchildren & many many great grandchildren of which some are B”h married I live in Brooklyn NY ”

Wow! Thanks so much for the firsthand info!! I wish you post more of how it was in those times.
It sure beats hearing all confused shtusim of half-baked info here…

May you be able to write with health and clarity until 120!!

I will repost my earlier post as it’s a couple of pages back;

Based on your posts, it seems that you are really misinformed, and have no clue what the very argument was in the first place. You should really sit down and read the very sources – not copy/paste from a book, and then comment. As the very claim of differentiating Human hair, is to a degree ignoramus.

On the other hand, I’m not sure you are capable of that, and other readers might benefit, thus I will quote:

The source of all Matirim is the Shiltie Giborim, so let’s see what exactly he has to say:
???? ????????” ?? ???”? ??? ?”? ?”? ???? ???”?
“???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????? ??????”? ???”?, ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????, ?????? ???????, ?? ??? ????? ??? ?????, ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????, ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????, ???? ???? ????? ????? ???????, ?????? ???’ ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ?????, ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????”?, ????? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ???, ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?????, ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???.
????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????, ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??????, ??”? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????, ??? ??? ???? ????? ???….????????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??”? ?? ?????? ???”?, ???? ???? ????? ?????
” ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????????

As you can see the source of all Matirim is specific loud and clear:
“??”? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????, ??? ??? ???? ????? ???”
i.e. that even if her purpose is to look pretty as if wearing own hair – it is Muttar.
And is ONLY prohibited when :
?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?????

Whereas, the opposing poskim i.e. the Bee’r Sheva etc. opposed for THAT very reason Joseph and Dancing is mentioning, that how can you say its muttar its still attractive “looks like hair” etc. (see Bee’r Sheva)…!

Despite all that, the Remah and more specifically the Magen Avraham defends the shiltas Shiltei Giborim and rules like him, the same with all others mentioned above – all ruled in favor of the Shiltei Giborim, despite all arguments of the opposing Be’er Sheva.
The Kaf Hachaim in ch 75 says the Shiltei Giborim is the final psak of all Achronim.

Dancing
“This is the basis of Rav Ovadia Yosef’s brilliant teshuva, how the shiltei Giborim never meant for wigs to be worn outside and Rov poskim (ashkenaz and sephard) did not allow the use of wigs – therefore it is forbidden. It aways amazes me how so many ignorant people will just dismiss the word of a halachic genius like Rav Ovadia Yosef who was able to be lenient in all areas- Yet he couldnt find a halachic heter for the wigs.”

Before I respond let me clear, no one denies Chacham Harav Ovadia’s Gadlus, I happen to have gone through many of his works in ???? ???? and others including this one in Vol 5, I don’t know why it should be a factor, this is how he understood that concept and most poskim including the Mishnah Brurah, Rav Moshe, the Chazon Ish and Brisker Rav ZTL understood differently.
— ????? ?????? ????
but this is not how Torah and psak works.

To be cont.

Mosh,
“If we start being lomdish and continue bringing proofs from the Gemara and other poskim to dispute the information we can go on and on and never finish. ”

No one is being “lomdish” – you are paskening out of a book – NOT a responsum or anything in writing by these Gedolim mentioned.

The words of the founding Poskim are for all to see – torah and psak is not defined by Kol Korah’s or by personal feelings or, by one or two Gedolim.
B”H there are enough other Gedolim that most follow.

“so too many rabbonim today are striving to further raise our level of kedusha to the point where women wear a tichel instead of a sheitel.”

That is exactly the issue – extremism is taking over!

Do I need to be frumer than the wives of the Chazon Ish and The BRISKER Rav?!

It is definitively 100% kosher leHalacha – what are you comparing? why are you insisting?!
Perhaps we should go back to the Rambam that Girls should cover their hair? Where does it end? Do we need to go like the cult of Lev Tahor…in Burkas?
Yes – each woman who wants to enhance her Kedusha ON HER OWN by being Machmir, is more than welcome,. BUT this should not come by anyone insisting.

Dancing,

“Just two months ago Vogue magazine featured a famous actress on their cover proudly wearing a wig from a frum sheitel company- and this was a short wig. She definitely looked very modest with her natural wig on!”

Interesting how two people can look at the same thing and come out with total opposite results:

– Daas’ Torah of many Gedolim –
Going back to Pre-war Europe most Frum/Charedi women did not cover their hair, including wives of Rabanim, Roshei Yeshivos, Pious g-d fearing men etc. it was accepted among most as the norm, as recorded by the Aruch Hashulchan and others.
Baruch Hashem that there are all kind of Sheitelach available, that no woman, no matter her level in Yiddishkeit should have the need or any excuse to go uncovered! In the worst case scenario, even if she goes with an immodestly pritzus sheiltal — it won’t be an Ervah d’Oraisa!

Yes, we do need chizuk in ALL aspects of Tznius as all Yiddshkeit related issues need Chizuk, and is no different than it has always been, relatively speaking!

Or, you can go ahead and claim everything is Assur and end with the same results as pre-war Europe.

“Gaon, you’re cherry-picking psaks you like and disregarding/dismissing all the others.”

Hmm since when is following the psak of:
——– ??? ?????, ????, ?????, ???? ???, ??”?, “??”? ???, ????? ????, ????? ???”? ???”?, ?? ????? Rema..
considered “picking”?!

Care to say how exactly you follow ANY Halacha?

Dance,
Two quick points for you to ask:
“it is clear from their findings that the Shiltei Giborim was referring to the wearing of a wig in the ??? – the courtyard, where other men were usually not prevalent.”

“Mahari Mintz Katzenelbogen who lived during the times of the Shiltei Giborim stated:
“Our parents and grandparents in all the communities in Ashkenaz have stated their opinion that one should not wear on the head, even a nylon fabric whose weave resembles hair.”

Explain – as per your above Peshat in the SH”G (that it’s only in the courtyard) – – what exactly is the opposition of the Be’er Sheva?
I will quote the part of the oppositional words of the Be’er Sheva Ch 18:

“?????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??”? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???’ ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?????
“???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??

I.e. The very pshat that we are speaking about i.e. a “Courtyard” is exactly the pshat how the Be’er Shva is disputing the very Mishna the Sht”G based his psak on!
Please relate to that “Talmid Chacham to look up the entire responsum of the Be’er Sheva, and you will see that pshat holds no ground.

Also, the Rema in ???? ??? ??’ ?”? is specifically talking about Reshus haRabim ans so is the Magen Avrohom and SM”A and PRM”G.

b) You do realize that despite the argument of the above Be’er Sheva – The actual Halacha has been decided like the Sht”G? The very fact that this is the psak of the Rema–
and others, ??? ?????, ????, ?????, ???? ???, ??”?, “??”? ???, ????? ????, ????? ???”? ???”?, ?? ????? ..—
— speaks volumes on its own! As these are the very Poskim that are the foundation of ALL halacha that we follow – and they were not concerned with issue of the Be’er Sheva.
! ??????? ??? ?????

Obviously, they were discussing in terms of Halacha not minhag (see Pri Mgadim).
Most of the later achronim you quote, all had the Minhag – at the time – to go covered, so of course there is an issue of Dat Yehadut involved, which is even according to the above Matirim an issue (see Magen Giborim CH 75).

Hence, most quotations of “Issur” is not relevant once the accepted minhag (the reason is an issue on ts own – and does not matter) is that all Charedi women do go with Pe’eh nuchris. Whether the reason was Maris Ayin or minhag is automatically irrelevant once the facts have changed.

DY,
” the question remains whether there is a halachic way to distinguish, aside from the practical non acceptance of the chumra in certain cases.”
There are certainly cases were we are meikal or somach on Shitos regarding the aspect of blios when its not a Ben Yomo.
I would venture to say that even though I’m makpid not to drink any CS, as per all poskim arguing with Rav Moshe (in addition to Rav Moshe himself ruling that you should try to get CY, see Vol 5), I would be somach on the shitos Pri Chadash (Note, which is muttar according to everyone’s understanding) and R Moshe if needed, in regards to Keilim that are not a Ben Yomo, as it is two Rabonon’s…

I think Rav Moshe’s teshuva is speaking about a Ben Yomo …

“??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???’… ?? ????? ??? ????? ?????
??? ????? ???? ????? ???… ?”? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????,
??? ???”? ?? ?????? ?”? ????? ???, ????”? ????”?, ??? ???? ?? ????”? ????? ??, ???
???? ??? ???? ????? ????. ????? ?????? ????’ ??? ??? ???, ??? ????? ?????? ????
????? ???? ??????, ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???. ????? ????,
????? ??? ????? ???’ ?????, ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???…

– ??”? “????? ???” ??”? ??? ?’ ??’ ?”? –

We see clearly Rav Moshe’s opinion that there is NO issue with ????? ???!

As for reasoning’s we can quote:

???? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????, ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????
?????, ??????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????, ???? ???? ?????, ??? ????
????? ????, ?????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???… ??? ?? ???? ????? ???… ????? ????
????? ????? ??? ????? ???, ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????, ???? ????
???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ???????
??????, ??”? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????. ?”?. ????? ???? ????, ???? ????
???? ??? ?????, ???? ???”? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????, ????? ???? ????? ????
????? ????, ???? ????? ?????”? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??????, ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??????,
???? ????? ???? ????, ????? ???? ??? ???????, ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????
???? ???? ???? ????, ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????”? ????? ??, ???? ????? ?????? ??, ?????
???? ?????”? ????? ??, ??? ?? ???? ???? ?????”.

– ??”? “????? ????” – ??? ?’, ??”? ??’ ?”? – ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ??”?, ??? ????? ???????? ??? ?? –

Dancing,
““What type of sheitel did my grandmother or great-grandmother wear? Was it as long, flowing, and natural-looking? Surely not; it was short, stiff, and wiggy-looking.”

You remind me of a true story; one ultra frum yid in Jerusalem that was makpid not to have a phone in his house – why? He explained being that “in the Heim in his shtetll we didn’t use one”. When he told that to an Adom Gadol, he answered him: you know why they didn’t have one?

Because there was none!

If Natural looking hair would have been available – they would have had one.

The ???? ???????? case is simple – one is permitted to take her OWN hair and cover herself and walk like that in Reshus haRabim. That means, a Kallah getting married can cut her own long braids and use that as a covering. Period!
(Note, the Levush does argue on using ones own hair)

“The same ??? ????? that you quoted that brings the ???? of the ???? ?????? HE himself harshly prohibited even unmarried girls (whose hair is not yet consider ????) to go out with long loose hair because it’s ??????!”

Why are you confusing two different issues?

One is about natural looking hair in a MODEST form (whatever you define “modest”), which is Muttar as per final poskim – even if it looks exactly like hair! And then we have the issue of immodest looking Shaitels – which is an issue on its own, even if it would to be synthetic.

Wearing a bright red scarf can also be an issue of Tzinuos – will you asser all scarfs then?

Yid,
“A woman should strive to look like the humble potato”which is a staple of the kitchen, which is where a woman belongs, because women are skilled at turning the dumpy potato into delicacies such as the succulent french fry.”
I think Joseph will go more for the Potato Kugel look…

Dancing-
” Many frum women look unmarried and extremely attracting with natural looking and pretty wigs. It’s a total mockery of the mitzvah”
So what is your suggestion? Asuur to ALL ?!
Would you prefer them going with their own hair, as was the case in pre-war Europe in most Russian and Polish cities and towns?

This is exactly the very problem of the entire A”Z hair issue – even if you would to have a legit argument, in regards to the AZ India issue, people like you have an agenda against the very wearing of Shaitels, thus, the cry of “A”Z hair” will never be taken as serious.

Besalel,
I will repeat again, the concept is nothing less than the following Shu”A (Note – the Beis Yosef lived in Tzefat EY)

“???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????????? ???? ????????, ????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????????? ???? ??????????? ?????????? ?????????????? ?????? ???????? ???????”

There is a saying that “too much information leads to misinformation”!

You are getting carried away and with all the Wiki info confusion. As far as Halacha is concerned, you need to know why and where the ones in concern are celebrating. Ask the random Joe Doe down your block and he will tell you, he has no idea what you are quoting, he is not even religious nor did he ever hear or believe of any of these copy/paste Wiki info you and Joseph keep on repeating. Ghosts, devils, spirits are just kids tales to the typical american.

Now Joseph will go and say x-mas is the same. No its not the same – the typical Joe definitely associates it with Christ….

Joseph,
These so-called halachic differences between Halloween and Christmas you are describing are those only imagined ”
Please describe the following scenario:
“???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????????? ???? ????????, ????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????????? ???? ??????????? ?????????? ?????????????? ?????? ???????? ???????”

According to Rav HoPosek Joseph anything falls within the same category…

Marbe,

As per Rav Belsky, if I remember correct, its a factual and lomdot question; he agrees that “some” indeed shave their hair as an “offer per se”, but he claims that according to all Hindu priests it is a concept of self-sacrifice only – NOT Takrovas, and therefore, what each individual does is considered “shlo kederech Avodah” and permitted. Rav Elyashov, I think, never responded on that point.