Forum Replies Created
July 28, 2011 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm in reply to: Singles Support Group #791765
What percentage of the frum community would you say that they (and the women that they hypothetically would have married) constitute?July 28, 2011 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909499
Chein, based on your last paragraph, then, it would seem that part of the problem is demand-side, which seems to be something that gets lost in the mix when people focus on the upper hand of the males.July 27, 2011 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909495
Chein, is the education usually a cause or effect of the lack of success?July 26, 2011 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909490
So if they younger guys are discouraged from dating, and (as it seems from earlier in this thread and others) there’s little impetus to have the 18-20 y.o. women actively hold out until they’re older themselves, then it would seem that (1) looking to the Hassidim as a model for close-in-age shidduchim will be of limited benefit, and (2) it will be an uphill battle getting 22-23 y.o. guys to marry close in age, since 18-20 years will be actively competing. Age bias doesn’t necessarily even come into play if you assume that for the individual 22/23 y.o. guy, most of the “top”/”good” women his own age have already married and so his choice is between the remaining close in age women and the “good” women from younger years. At present, there wouldn’t even be enough close-in-age women for them all to marry within 1-2 years if they wanted to, given that the women their own age have already been dating 2-3 years. Close-in-age/older as a direct strategy might still be very successful with the remaining “older” guys, or, if the 25+ women don’t have a problem with 22/23 y.o. guys, you can get the younger guys to date specifically older and not just close in age.
Does anyone have any information on the demographics of the “older” women? E.g., do they tend to be from poorer families? To they tend to get more or less education after high school/seminary? Or is it completely random?
Also, does anyone have any data on BTs (or gerim) who become members of Yeshivish/Litvish communities? How does the shidduch system for them deal with the fact that many haven’t (and likely aren’t going to) go through the BY – Seminary (- College?) or Yeshiva HS – E”Y – U.S. Yeshiva system? How and with whom are they set up? What happens to the women who become BTs when they’re already “older”?July 24, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909486
I guess the question is, if we’re trying to get guys married younger, would the women in the “younger” range (I guess 18/19-22ish) prefer the guys within their range? Alternatively, if we’re trying to get guys to marry “older” women, how many 25/26 year-old women would be willing to date the 22/23 year-old men?July 22, 2011 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909482
1. What are the demand side issues? Age gap has been mentioned as a problem of men wanting younger women, but is this a one-way street? Do women also prefer older men (at least until they’ve become “older singles”), and if so, will encouraging the guys to seek close-in-age or older women do much if a bias against close-in-age or younger men persists?
2. It has been mentioned that Hassidim have more close-in-age shidduchim. How else does their system differ? Do more men work? Do they spend a shorter time learning in the late teens/early twenties? Is there the same expectation that in-laws finance long-term learning? How do these differences affect the men’s ability to start dating sooner?
(Hypothetically, if Hassidic men start dating at 19-20, but also start working and don’t expect their in-laws to finance long-term learning, then there will be a smaller age gap, but there will also be different expectations about what the kallah’s family brings to the table financially and about the relative status of learners vs. earners. In fact, the smaller age gap will be an effect of these other considerations, rather than an independent factor affecting their shidduch outcomes, so simply looking at their culture of smaller age gaps without also considering the other components of the system won’t help much.
Again, I’m a ger and an outsider to this phenomenom, so I really don’t know the ins and out of the Litvish vs. Hassidic systems and whether the hypothetical in #2 reflects reality.)July 20, 2011 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909440
(1) How much of that ratio can the age gap alone account for?
(2) Especially given your second sentence, does this imply that marriage-age single men and women put different weight on the goal of marriage, and that women are more likely to go to shadchanim, not just because guys are sought out and the market is in their favor, but because they actually feel more pressed to get married? In other words, how much of the crisis is a numbers gap based on the genders’ respective sense of urgency to get married?July 20, 2011 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909436
For those suggesting that the ladies look at less frum men, what kind of gap are people suggesting? Assuming that the young women are Litvish/Yeshivish and lekhatehila would want someone similar, are we talking kippa sruga (no black hat) at an out-of-town Young Israel types? Avi Weiss types? “Traditional” conservative? Regular conservative? Reform?July 20, 2011 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909435
Interesting that this discussion presents the problem as an issue of purely FFB concern. If the FFB young women (“girls”) have it this rough, who knows what the ba’alot (and maybe even the ba’alei) teshuva are going through. Or do they not matter?
I’d love to help solve the shidduch crisis. I’m 25, so I guess I’m getting to be an older single myself. I wouldn’t object to dates with the 23-27 crowd. I’m in law school, so I will be working and have no need for a huge payment from the kallah’s family. I do plan to take a year off to learn in E”Y before fininshing law school though, so I’d guess I’d be further adding to the problem, no?
Only thing is, I’m a ger and have never set foot in Lakewood, so as this conversation shows I’m not even in the running.July 20, 2011 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm in reply to: A third of Litvish families I know, have one or more single daughters 25 and up #909431
Would those numbers reflect actual proportions of singles or just the number of people of each gender putting themselves out there?