smiler613

Reb Simcha,

The way I look at it is that people know that the Mechira is not that good and it would definitely not hurt to be machmir. Maybe it’s possible to be meikel but their ego doesn’t let them be “meikel” so they need to find an excuse to call it a “chumra” so they dig up something called “buying from yidden” that wasn’t relevant to them when the price, quality, or convenience was slightly better somewhere else. Not only do they pat themselves on the back with their new invented chumra to davka buy questionably sold chometz they also refuse to accommodate those that are machmir and start to bash them zealously.

Not that every person who believes this idea has this reason, but somewhere down the road someone invented this lomdos for this reason and some people find it convenient to buy into this lomdos, some people are confused, and some people truly believe that the sale is fine and for some reason continue to use the excuse of buying from Yidden which they don’t need because they hold it’s ok even if it would be specifically from Goyim. (of course, many people who are meikel to buy the chometz do not use this excuse and do not bash the machmirim. They don’t mind considering themselves the meikel or simply one of the sides)

In reality, it has no connection because the chumra has nothing to do with buying. It’s only that you cannot eat the food. I buy some food from Yidden and then don’t eat it when I realize that the product has an issue and I do not return it. I also don’t eat gifts that I receive that have this issue. It only can indirectly cause you to need to buy from Goyim because the Yidden were not supplying what you eat. That’s like saying that I shouldn’t go on a diet because it may cause me to buy less nosh from Yidden.

The original post was about trying to buy from Yidden. I have an option to buy from Goyim but I would rather buy from a Yid. So I am looking for a store that supplies what I need. If I can find a store that at least makes it clear what was sold and what was not, I would want to support such a store.

Should each person evaluate his Chumros to see if they make sense? Sure

This applies to the chumra of not eating temporarily sold chometz as well as the chumra of buying from yidden that don’t accommodate your needs as well as the chumra of “emunas chachamim” in the meikel over the machmir.

But the wildest chumra of them all is the “chumra” to bash other people’s chumras or to specifically not accommodate to them. This Chumra needs to be most carefully re-evaluated. I don’t think anyone is as sure of themselves as Bais Shamai were and Chazal tell us that Bais Shamai would accommodate Bais Hillel because as much as they stuck to the truth, they also stuck to peace.

For some reason, when it comes to other people’s even baseless Kulas most people go with “live and let live” and tend to mind their own business. On the other hand when someone has a not even so baseless chumra, suddenly the “live and let live” attitude tends to go out the window.

ubiquitin

If I (and my Rabbeim) disagree with getting the best tasting and cheapest snacks that still would not allow me to disrespect his concern that he does care about the taste and saving a few cents. The same thing works with Chumras.

When the Chachamim made the Knas they did not make an exception for if he “meant well” the halacha is that even if it was באונס the Knas would apply. My understanding of the reasoning for this is that if they would allow an exception then people would claim that it was באונס and their yetzer hara would make them give excuses due to the huge losses that he might incur. Now that the Chachamim made the Knas, it is not enough for him and his Rav to find a Kula, he will need to convince all his customers that it is Lechatchila.

That might be why the way the Chachamim made the Knas in the form of an Issur hanaah instead of saying that his Rabbi should give him a fine, is that this makes the public opinion matter instead of supervision by just one person who can potentially be too meikel out of pity for the individual or be bribed or misled.

Maybe the fact that 90% of the tzibur is happy to buy sold Chametz indicates that the sale is not so bad, but maybe the fact that (let’s say) 10% of the tzibur does not want to buy from the sold Chametz indicates that the sale is not so Lechatchila. The way the Knas works, in reality, is that the business that keeps Chometz over Pesach will lose customers as they will go to other Yidden or to Goyim. The better the heter is, the fewer customers will be lost.

@ubiquitin

Correct 99

If the shop intends to mix it so that “machmirim” shouldn’t know what’s what and by doing that, they want the “machmirim” to consider it בטל, then it shouldn’t be בטל.

You could “kler” if it’s done intentionally or not, but there is a possibility that they are aware of the problems and are intentionally trying to create a heter (or intentionally trying to circumvent the Knas/boycot that the Chachamim made to deter them from avoiding proper biur chometz and obviously the Chachamim would not allow such easy loopholes מה הועילו חכמים בתקנתם)

He meant אין מבטלין איסור לכתחילה
see יורה דעה סימן פ”ט סעיף ה וסעיף ו

I think it could be worth it for a store to get customers by giving them what they want. Many people buy from Goyim only because they can’t find a Jewish store that is willing to supply them with what they want. Attempting to sell someone something that they do not want is sinnas chanam as well as bad from a business perspective. You can’t refuse to supply the products that your customer wants and then complain when he takes his business elsewhere.
מי שנוהג באיזה דבר איסור מכח שסובר שדינא הוא הכי או מכח חומרא שהחמיר על עצמו מותר לאכול עם אחרים שנוהגין בו היתר דודאי לא יאכילוהו דבר שהוא נוהג בו איסור (rama yore deah 119)
אע”פ שנחלקו בית שמאי ובית הלל מודעי להו ופרשי דאהבה וריעות נוהגים זה (Yevamos 14B)
It doesn’t make a difference if the chumra is right or wrong, a consumer should be allowed to only purchase and eat what they want.