Forum Replies Created
So much to answer…
Why does he want to be Ashkenazi? I have no idea. He comes from a very proud Sefardi family with a history of great rabbeim in the “old country.” I think he was influenced early on to think that if he’s going to be a great Rosh Yeshiva and be taken seriously, he has to be Ashkenazi. While his family speaks Farsi, he learned Yiddish.
Did the girl settle? I don’t know. He is VERY outgoing and talkative. A very friendly guy who will talk to anyone. But I’m told that when she talked to the boy’s mother she was friendly and wanted to know more about her son. So I think there’s some genuine interest.
They’re Americans dating in the Israeli culture. I don’t know how much that plays into the awkwardness. I know that when I was in yeshiva and the guys were dating, if the couple wasn’t talking after 3 dates, it usually ended, but could continue for a few more if it’s a good match on paper.
How does he know that they share similar goals and values? It’s all on paper. How much of that stuff is sincere, one never knows.
We’re going to meet the girl in a few weeks and actually see them together. I think we successfuly manipulated them into a double date.
He’s not chassidish, but litvish chareidi. And I question whether the homework was done, at least on the side of the boy by people solely interested in his well-being (his parents and grandparents). We’re not saying it CAN’T work, we’re just not sure if this process was on par.
I have a bit more info… forgive me, it’s late at night here in Ir HaKodesh.
The parents have met and the boy’s parents are very fond of the girl’s parents. The boy expressed his reservations to his parents, and his parents are naturally concerned. But based on the girl’s family and having spoken to the girl over the phone, they think everything will be OK.
This is not to say that the parents had input BEFORE the shidduch, which is a big concern.
Someone above mentioned the politics of it all. And this is something I warned the boy about before he went to Israel. I’d been down a similar road as a chozer b’teshuvah trying to get into the yeshivish world. They may invite me for a Shabbos meal or say how impressive my scholarship is, but when it came time to marry, all the doors slammed closed (and boy do I have a bad story to tell). This boy comes from an orthodox family who were BT when he was very young. But they were not born into the Chareidi tzibur. Also, he’s Sephardi and wanted to marry and Ashkenazi girl. He thinks he converted. So he’s been told that he has “strikes” against him, as great of a young man as he is.
We learned what the girl’s “strike” is… one of her brothers is off the derech. Not, G-d forbid, a bad person, just no longer observant. SHe’s the first of their daughters to get married, and it sounds like they had a hard time.
I’m going to see the boy at his yeshiva on Motzei Shabbos (what liquor should I bring?!). I want to hear it straight from the horse’s mouth.
They should have all the bracha and simcha HKBH can bestow on a young couple.
I know on his end there was NO parental input. Everyone in our family was surprised. We knew he was dating in general, but didn’t know he’s reached the 4th date with anyone. More importantly, his parents didn’t know. She could just be shy and have a beautiful neshama inside. Like I said, it could work. But he confessed to us that he doesn’t know the girl at all, and he’s worried. But… he was told this is normal.
Our input… In the past he came to me for life advice. But that was years ago. My father-in-law is his Sandak, so they’re very close. But he wasn’t in on this engagement.
I don’t plan on insinuating my opinion unless I’m directly asked. He invited me to the vort next Motzei Shabbos and I’m happy to go and b’simcha the chassan.
Is this structure of this process sound?
Kfb – what plants did the EPA close? Did they close them arbitrarily or because of the massive harm they were causing to local residents? How many jobs have been lost? By all accounts that I can find, the energy sector is going great, hiring is up. And coal ash and chemical are pouring into the rivers and drinking water here in the south. Go look up the recent press conference where the governor of West Virginia announced that the water was safe, but refused to drink it in public!
I took your google challenge. And as I suspected, the conservative media was distorting an otherwise innocuous statistic. Prisoners were not released. The ICE chose not to issue charging orders (criminal arrest and detainment) for 68,000 of the 195,000 undocumented immigrants that it encountered in 2013. The reason? Allocation of resources. Any undocumented person is a “criminal.” So the story was twisted into “Obama releases 68,000 illegal immigrant criminals.” Am I terribly concerned that a guy who works 12 hours a day to support his family and otherwise follows the law is still walking the streets, mowing grass or working in a chicken plant? Not really. You may be, and that’s a valid criticism. We just disagree.
I tried pot once. It did nothing for me and never touched it again. I would educate my children to stay away from it and any mind-altering substances, including alcohol. And yes, I do have a drink at Shabbos dinner. So I admit to being a hypocrite about that.
Kfb – Your wish would come true if you read or listened to something outside of the conservative bubble. What your saying are complete distortions or just fiction. Since Pres. Obama came into office, he’s DEPORTED more illegal immigrants that any president before. When did he release convicted criminal illegals? Do you have a link? He’s not going to waste the ICE’s meager resources to round up law-abiding folks who are going to school and working and paying taxes. He’s focused resources on getting actual criminals. You may disagree with the policy, and that’s fine. But at least deal in facts. Same with VP Biden’s comments, do you have a link to prove that’s what he said?
The EPA hasn’t done anything to the coal industry, much to the dismay of the residents of West Virginia and North Carolina. Did you hear about the coal ash and chemical spills? 300,000 in each state without water for weeks? People getting sick? This is why the coal industry needs safety standards. And if we can convert those jobs to cleaner, cheaper energy, why not?! If someone is employed making solar panels in a factory or installing wind turbines, how is that worse than working in a coal mine? Once upon a time, the oil industry was new and required government subsidies to get off the ground. People were afraid they’d put the whale oil trade out of business and everyone would be unemployed. But the oil industry is now the most profitable on earth.
A bit of forward thinking and living in the fact-based world would make your dream come true, I promise. The budget deficit is 1/2 of what it was, taxes are down across the board, we’ve had over 50 months of job growth. Millions more people have health insurance. The stock market is 2 1/2 times what it was when he took office. Corporate profits are at all time highs. This is the worst socialist president ever!
As Torah Jews, we learn a sugya of Gemara, we’re trying to get pshat. What did Rebbi Shimon actually say? What were his words? Three people may disagree about what he said, but one is true and accepted. And those true words are what shapes the halacha.
Kfb – Again, you’re assuming untrue statements in your question. The issue of Rice being a good secretary of state is purely a matter of opinion, so I will leave that alone (she did COMPLETELY miss the “planes will fly into towers” memo in August 2001, but whatever).
There is one black Republican senator, Tim Scott. There are two black Democratic senators, Cory Booker and Mo Cowan. I don’t think you know (or choose to selectively ignore) the history of the KKK, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Dixiecrat party. “Southern Democrats” like Strom Thurmond were different from “Democrats” like John Kennedy. The Southern Democrats left the Democratic Party in 1964 to join the Republican party. The pre-civil rights Southern Democrats have no continuity with the current Democratic Party, but do have a lineage right into the current Republican Party. I know, it’s one step beyond a sound-byte, but I encourage you to learn the nuance of history.
Most liberals do not want undocumented immigrants to have instant citizenship with no penalty. I don’t know any that do, and I listen to liberal radio and read the websites. We do recognize that there is a problem with having 11 million people, most of which are law-abiding and working, living in the shadows, not paying taxes and being abused by the labor market. The general “liberal” proposal has been (and this is supported by a number of Republicans and all of the right-wing business groups) to give these people legal worker status, so they can make minimum wage and pay taxes and drive legally (and get insurance), let them apply for a Green Card-like status after going through a background check and paying fines and taxes for the years that they were illegal, then let them get in the back of the line for citizenship. If you have proof of anyone advocating for less (we argue about the fines), please show proof.
Also, the idea of buying something we can’t afford to support the environment is a silly premise. If we can’t afford it, how could we buy it? I can’t afford a Prius (and it’s way too small for my needs), so I bought a fuel-efficient car I could afford. But will we pay a couple of dollars more here or there for pesticide and chemical-free food, or light bulbs that last years and save us money in the long run… sure! It makes good, economic sense.
First, decide if you’re talking about chilonim in Israel or non-orthodox Jews in Western Europe. How non-Israeli Jews feel about Israeli Chareidi Jews is irrelevant (unless you care about achdus) because they don’t vote in Israeli elections.
Second, chilonim, and dati leumi, and working yeshivish and chassidishe Jews complain about non-working chareidim for many different reasons. Some of it might be pure bigotry, like Republicans complaining about African Americans on welfare in the US, forgetting that most welfare recipients are White.
Most of it is out of frustration that the non-working chareidim are gaming the system. Anyone that considers him/herself an orthodox Jew learns Torah. Some may learn 8 hours a day, some 3, some an hour a week, some 10 minutes a week. But we all learn. We make time in our lives, as instructed by Chazal, to work and learn Torah. I won’t quote, but Pirkei Avos and the Rambam have very harsh words for Jews who choose not work and live off the donations of others.
Also, let’s not confuse secular with atheist. I believe shul attendance on Yom Kippur in Israel is somewhere nears 80-90%. I read a statistic two years ago. So while chilonim might not follow all of halacha, they recognize Hashem, the Torah, and the importance of religion. Before the Gaza military operation a few years back, one organization shipped in tzitzits for the soldiers. They ran out in minutes. Who took them and put them on before going into battle? The chilonim! The orthodox obviously already had tzitzit.
Many chilonim recognize that there is intrinsic value in learning Torah. If we treated kollel like a university and the students eventually came out to become teachers, dayanim, shul rabbis and kashrut examiners, no one would have a problem with the system or government support. These are professions. Professions where one can continue to learn 8 hours a day. Even if some students spent their lives doing nothing but learning because they were geniuses of their generation, I don’t think the chilonim would say a word. And chilonim do recognize that there is a Heavenly benefit for society when we learn Torah. Maybe not on the same level as us, but they get the concept.
Akuperman is wrong. University students in the US are not “unemployed” because they are considered workers not in the work force. They do not collect unemployment benefits. A few get government grants to study for a degree, most take private student loans. But they have a goal! To get a degree and get a better job! That’s good for the economy. The unemployment rate in the US for college graduates is under 4%!
Chilonim (and dati leumi and working yeshivish) don’t see a goal, economic or otherwise, for sitting in yeshiva on the government dole. If private parties want to support them, yasher koach! I donate to yeshivas also.
Let’s not mix concepts in an intellectually dishonest way to support and unsustainable system.
You think that’s expensive? Try getting shmurah matzah out of town (and I don’t mean Lakewood or Monsey). Down here in Atlanta, it’s upwards of $30-$35 a pound, imported from Brooklyn (I don’t hold by the mass-produced stuff in Costco). And you only get the one brand/hechsher the supermarket chooses to buy that year. There’s no wall of shmurah matzah from 10 different bakeries with your choice of white, wheat, spelt, oats, etc. I drive to Brooklyn every year before Pesach to load up my SUV with Pesach food that you either can’t get down here, or costs 3 times the price.
You should be thanking Hashem that you live in a place where the necessities of Pesach are so readily available and at relatively reasonable prices.January 21, 2014 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm in reply to: Can I go in a law school with only a BTL (Bachelor of Talmudic Law) #999248
You can go to law school with a degree in opera. Seriously, the woman that graduated #1 in my law school class had a degree in opera. As long as your BA is from an accredited institution and you have the LSAT scores, you’re eligible to go to most, if not all, law schools. You also have to consider preparation… do you have a sufficient background in other liberal arts and social sciences subjects so that you’d thrive in the law school environment?
Why would you want to go to law school, that’s the question.
Check out tiferesjudaica.com. They’re a sofer and judaica store on Coney Island Avenue in Brooklyn, but do a great deal of business over the internet. I drove up from Atlanta to see them about a Megillas Esther. They sold me a beautiful, kosher Megillah and worked out a good price (it was a donation to my shul). While I was there, they checked my tefillin, found an error that no one had seen in the 20 years I’d been wearing them, and I bought new tefillin (of a higher level of hiddur than I had before), also for a reasonable price. I recently bought a new house and bought all of my mezuzos from them over the internet. Quality work. Great customer service. Kashrus is beyond question. Their head sofer literally wrote the book on safrus.
Hatzlacha, and may your new tefillin bring you much chizuk and nachas!
We’re in Norcross. East of I-85.
I haven’t worked Austin Powers into a drasha yet, but there’s still time :-).
The Ben Ish Chai says that we should not read/learn during davening. I take that as an aspiration, but difficult during the long services. And it’s better to learn Torah than chat with your neighbor or think about non-Torah topics.
How about a classic like Shaare Teshuvah? It works for me.
147 – I did not realize that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Everyone else, thank you for the warm welcome.
Gatesheader – I agree. First I left New YOrk, and then the orthodox center of Atlanta. We’re only 10-12 miles from the large and small orthodox areas (Toco Hills and Dunwoody). But the suburbs are ripe for growth, as were Lakewood, Monsey, West Hempstead and Waterbury. It’s a struggle at first. But we have a nice shul, plenty of very cheap housing with nice, big houses. G-d willing, we’ll have an eruv encompassing 1,000 homes in the next few weeks (negotiating with TWO power companies that cover the area). Depending on the time of year, we have daily minyanim and night seder. And we have a fun mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardim from different parts of the world. What we really need is a good rav to stick with us. We’ve had a few rabbis come and go, but no one really invested in the community. So if you know anyone… :-).
I’m going to post separately about Rosh Hashanah drasha topics. I’m curious to see responses.
Again, thank you for the warm welcome!
Rabbi Sinclair at Ohr Somayach tells of how he became orthodox… he was dragged to a shacharis minyan to be a “tzenter” so someone could say kaddish. As he said, “we finished praying, and then they opened the bar.” So I’d enjoy a schnapps during working hours. Thank you :-).
Atlanta is warm and sunny. We have the perfect Sukkos weather. Not too hot anymore, and never cold. Kosher food could get scarce. B’H one Costco carries glatt kosher meat now. And grape juice is a steal! I still drive up to Brooklyn with my father a few times a year to go grocery shopping. I”YH, I’ll be in Brooklyn for Chol Hamoed.
Our little community in the suburbs is fighting over where and whether to have a communal Rosh Hashanah dinner on Sunday night. What was supposed to be 5 families sharing the cooking turned into 60 people wanting to freeload. They come for the food, not the davening (like, we start Mincha at 7, they’ll show up around 9).
I’m getting my shofar warmed up. My 7th year in a row as baal tokeah! And I’m trying to write my drasha for Rosh Hashanah. We don’t have a rabbi (we did, he got bought out by another shul). Any thoughts on topics would be appreciated. I covered all the basics the last few years.
Do other people’s kids come home from school each day with new Rosh Hashanah songs?
And the Subject is from an old Austin Powers movie.
Say it quietly while the Sephardim are saying whatever tehillim they say at the end of davening before Aleinu. I also daven with a sephardi minyan, and we sometimes have to make these little edits.
First time caller, long time listener… I had to jump in on this topic.
So I’m an Ashkenazi guy that married a Bukharian girl and had the big Bukharian wedding (not in NYC). There are many cultural differences, but far more similarities than you’d think. A Jewish wedding is a Jewish wedding the world over.
Yes, guests are expected to pay for their seat. The amount is usually set by rumor. Some closer relatives will also give a gift to the chassan and kallah if they wish. We’ve given gifts to close cousins even when we don’t attend the wedding, and gifts far in excess of our seat cost to siblings. This is to defray the cost of the wedding. It’s always been done like this, even in the Soviet Union. Weddings aren’t just for the chassan and kallah, they’re for the whole family and community to celebrate. So they all chip in.
The result is that the parents recoup most of the wedding cost and are able to give a significant gift to their children. Families DO save for weddings. My kids are 5 and 2 (B”YH), and we’re already saving (I say it’s for college, but whatever). Several of my wife’s cousins got houses when they got married (usually a condo or townhouse, to be accurate), furniture, appliances, all the things a young couple needs to start out in life. Yes, a husband is expected to take care of his wife. But these people marry young, and it’s difficult for a 22 year old boy to have the cash up front for these large expenses.
It’s a different system, but it works. Our system is different to them. THey don’t understand how we can go to a wedding and not help pay the cost.
Yehudayona – I sympathize. My parents could not afford to pay for half of a lavish wedding. The custom is for each side to lay out the cost for their guests. So the reality was I had 24 guests (it was out of town for us) and my wife’s side had 350 guests. Our portion was smaller. Also, my parents bought us more stuff for our first apartment, as is their custom. My in-laws are wonderful people (yes, I’m saying that with all sincerity). THey understood the cultural differences and worked with us. B”H we had a beautiful wedding and now have a beautiful family. So talk to your machatunim (that’s “kudo” in Bukharian). I’m sure they’re just as nervous about accommodating your needs as you are about accommodating their’s.
Either way, MAZEL TOV!