Rockland County Sheriff, James F Kralik and Ramapo Supervisor, Christopher P St Lawrence seem to have won re-election – with 98% of the votes counted. Both were backed by leading Monsey rabbonim and Askonim. Additionally, Thomas P Zugibe has won Rockland County District Attorney against Michael E Bongiorno, and Itamar Yeger has won the Ramapo Town Council seat.
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30 Responses
Although Christopher St. Lawrence has issues Baruch Hashem the evil party was defeated.However i think the frum community should learn from this election that sometimes our actions can lead to anti-semitism and we should try harder to avoid making a chilul hashem with our actions, overbuilding and efforts to sneak tax free housing onto everyone else. This time the good prevailed. Let’s not take any more chances.
as long as the nazi yemach sh’mo didnt win BH.
“nazi? Yemach sh’mo?” what has Mele done to elicit this uncouth reaction?
Mark Levin: Don’t use the nazi and yemach sh’mo for people that we disagree with politically. Thinking Clearly: People who win aren’t likely to do a cheshbon hanefesh of the kind you describe. I think that many people in the community campaigned in a manner that causes Sinas Yisroel and they need to answer for it.
Mele is no Nazi. Preserve Ramapo is not an aniti-semitic party. There are real problems with St. Lawrence’s ties to developers in Ramapo. Thinkinclearly is correct. It is incumbant upon the frum community to shape up and stop assuming that laws are merely obstacles in the way of getting what the community wants. It is high time for the frum community to stop assuming that the rest of the world’s views, concerns, and aspirations mean nothing. Basically, it’s time for the frum community to show the world around them the respect they want shown them and to lose the defensive combative approach that has abided until now.
when preserve ramapo letter writers to the journal news refer to the section 8, welfare recipient, tax cheating bloc voters — who do you think that they mean???
the founders of preserve ramapo are clearly not fond of the Jewish community (putting it lightly) and many of their non-Jewish supporters are clearly anti-semitic.
the Jews that support them are misguided. If they align with the overbuilding concerns, water/sewerage concerns let them start their own group and NOT align with those that hate us!
mdlevine:
Regardless of whether Preserve Ramapo has antisemitic supporters (and possibly founders), and many clearly are, we have to act in a way that is befitting our status as frum and ehrlicha yidden. I think there are those in our camp who did not meet that standard in this election, and have caused sinas yisroel with the over the top rhetoric used.
I was referring to the rosha who promised to take office and immediately begin his administration by revoking all permits to any jewish institution. THAT would be the reason I called him what I did and I stand by it too! If you people are too blind to see it, that’s your problem for now.
Who promised to do that and when? I did not see any such promises only accusations from our side that such was promised. Even if you are right, you diminish the crimes of the Nazis yemach shmom vizichrom by comparing such people to them.
thinkingclearly correctly points out the problem of certain individuals dishonestly putting their homes in the names of shuls or other tax free organizations. This is not simply a matter of chilul HaShem (bad enough) but is also genaiva from all us honest chumps who are forced to bear the increased tax burden resulting their crooked actions. While I am sure this was not the intention of the Rabbonim with their public proclomation, unfortunately it reinforces and plays into the hands of these dishonest individuals. I strongly hope that these same Rabbonim will now speak out publicly in their shuls and other institutions on this fundamental matter of ehrlichkeit and bein adam l’chaveiro.
liddleyiddle: go read the posts in the rockland newspaper of the mele supporters — comparing the leaders New Square and Kaser to islamic fundalmentalists. go read the anti-Hasid(read anti-Jewish) posts.
3:30 im a big supporter of PRESERVE RAMAPO 1. mabey give me a link for anti semetic statments by 1 of the candidates or with a position in preserve ramapo
when preserve ramapo letter writers to the journal news refer to the section 8, welfare recipient, tax cheating bloc voters — who do you think that they mean???
the founders of preserve ramapo are clearly not fond of the Jewish community (putting it lightly) and many of their non-Jewish supporters are clearly anti-semitic.
the Jews that support them are misguided. If they align with the overbuilding concerns, water/sewerage concerns let them start their own group and NOT align with those that hate us!
Comment by mdlevine — November 7, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
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It’s very clear that the references were to the chassidic community. What’s got you upset? The fact is that those letter writers called a spade a spade? Many, far too many chareidim are tax cheats and perpetrators of benefits fraud. Don’t event try to deny it. An av bes din once told me that they have no choice. If they don’t commit benefits fraud how will they have a house, how will the yeshivas survive? The idea of actually learning a trade and doing an honest days work never occurs to a huge swath of the chareidi community. Even among those who do work, they earn a paltry salary on the books, take home much more off the books and recieve various forms of public assistance. Do you think the world at large is so stupid that they don’t know it? And then people dare to label any criticism of these schemes as anti-semitic. And please don’t tell me that other groups do the same thing. I don’t care. If we want to continue to lay claim of being the Am haMuvchar, then we ought to live up to the ethical standards that status requires. And yes I include myself in the “we.” Not that I’ve ever taken public assistance. But to the rest of the world, since I openly declare my Orthodoxy, I lumped together with the “heimishe yidden” who do. Quite frankly, I’m ashamed both of you and for you.
Hopefully in the next election Preserve Ramapo will put forward a reasonable candidate (not a former mercenary) who will make a determined effort to reach out to the frum community. And if that happens, hopefully we will cut our ties with St. Lawrence (who would downzone his own mother for the right price)and stop behaving like a mindless monolith. If you look past the innuendo, Preserve Ramapo has some valid concerns and good ideas, and it is in our interest at the very least to adopt a friendly posture toward them and make sure they are not controlled by a few anti-semites.
Mdlevine: I don’t care how many people out of the 6 billion that can write to the Journal News are anti-semitic. That doesn’t mean that Mele is.
“when preserve ramapo letter writers to the journal news refer to the section 8, welfare recipient, tax cheating bloc voters — who do you think that they mean???”
I think that they mean crooks. Their religion is irrelevant. If their problem was Chasidim, they’d complain about bekeshes, payos, and shtreimels.
NotFromBrooklyn, the reason the frum community did not support Mele had nothing to do with his mercenary past. The Rabbonim and askanim are happy with the downzoning.
mdlevine, could you please provide a link to such a letter?
cantoresq, al tiftach peh.
Try this website
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=7815
or
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=9069
or go to the journal news and read the archived letters and posts
such as these words from the preserve ramapo supporter in the journal news today: “The truth is that Mister Christopher St. Lawrence received 3273 votes, 22% of his total from the 3 districts of new Square and Kaser—-Mele received one vote. You got to admit that kind of unanimity can only exist in a socially controlled authoritarian community—contrary to American tradition of a free society. So it is not a stretch to say this election was a huge victory for the Ayotollahs of Kaser and New Square.”
and what has me upset is that Yidden, poor misguided Yidden are sharing the platform with those that hate us. Remember what the Satmar Rebbi (R’Yoel Z’TL) did when he planned a protest by the Israeli embassy. non-Jews heard and planned to join the protest – the Rebbe cancelled the protest saying (paraphrase) we have Torah reasons, they just hate Jews!
re your comments (cantoresq) “Many, far too many chareidim are tax cheats and perpetrators of benefits fraud. Don’t event try to deny it. An av bes din once told me that they have no choice.” Great job in aligning yourself with those who hate us, just to show them that you really are just like them and not like those bekeshe and shtreimel wearers(from liddleyiddle) and you expect us to believe you that an Av Beis Din told you that Chareidim are tax cheats and frauds – absurd!
case closed!
Now that counsel has concluded, a decision has been rendered, and judgment is in favor of mdlevine on all counts!
That must be a pretty interesting case…because you haven’t proven anything.
Somebody is distressed that Mele won the election when he really had more support…now he’s an anti-semite?
As for your ignoring the facts about tax fraud, where do you get off denying facts?
It is not a simple matter. Anyone who has seen the writings of Bob Rhodes (the chairman and founder of Preserve Ramapo) will come to the same conclusion as our Rabbonim.
In the past:
Rhodes has written extensive articles about the fertility rates of the Chassidim.
He has said that the chassidim and ultra orthodox are using up a disproportionate share of our vital resources.
He is opposed to getting new sources of water for chassidishe villages due to the potential growth of the orthodox community.
His organization calls all the chassidim a virus.
Mele called the frum community bandit hoards.
At a meeting on August 9th 2005 Rhodes attacked the new Yeshiva of Spring Valley building project on College Rd.
He is opposed to Kollel housing for yeshivos.
They said in their mailing they would join suffern in the fight against the Bikur Cholim shabbos house.
When faced with such a hateful group, our gedolim and Rabbonim in the entire Ramapo joined together to stop them.
It is wonderful to bash the developers, but we must be careful to review how many years are they waiting to get approvals? How many years of taxes? How much money was their mortgage for those years? The cost of design and engineering? I find it strange that we dont want developers to develop the projects. Who else does development but developers?
I hope that KINAH is not part of the problem.
The Town did declare that all new approvals will have a percentage of units that will be sold below market to eligible families as affordable housing.
This was long overdue.
A man complains in this blog that Mele was called names yet he has no problem falsely calling tens of thousands of frum yidden, tax cheats and perpetrators of benefits fraud as a FACT.
I happen to know that liddleyiddle who said this about chassidim is a tax cheat and lets call that a FACT! now dont you go off denying facts:-(
Stop the garbage the Kinah to others and serve Hashem. What constitutes Chilull Hashem is a question in Halochah so let the Rabbonim decide. If you or I try to decide this it would likely be Das Bal Habayis Neged Hatorah!
I find it ironic that all the chasidim bound together to vote for a guy that they can’t pronounce his full name or write his full name in their newspapers (written as Chris Lawrence). Great Stuff! Only in Monsey…
re your comments (cantoresq) “Many, far too many chareidim are tax cheats and perpetrators of benefits fraud. Don’t event try to deny it. An av bes din once told me that they have no choice.” Great job in aligning yourself with those who hate us, just to show them that you really are just like them and not like those bekeshe and shtreimel wearers(from liddleyiddle) and you expect us to believe you that an Av Beis Din told you that Chareidim are tax cheats and frauds – absurd!
case closed!
Comment by mdlevine — November 7, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
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Does it not occur to people that those of us in the Orthododox community who work for a living and do so honestly are disgusted by those chareidim who don’t anti-semitism notwithstanding? I got new for you. Even in the hoyim didn’t care, I’d be disgusted. As to the av bes din, I’m more than happy to identify him, I’ll even tell you where and when he said it.
and what has me upset is that Yidden, poor misguided Yidden are sharing the platform with those that hate us. Remember what the Satmar Rebbi (R’Yoel Z’TL) did when he planned a protest by the Israeli embassy. non-Jews heard and planned to join the protest – the Rebbe cancelled the protest saying (paraphrase) we have Torah reasons, they just hate Jews!
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I’m not misguided at all. I have Torah reasons for my disgust with chareieim who steal from the government.
cantoresq: go read the posts in the journal news online today and look at the venom in those posts – the venom of these anti-semites (one of who started posting here and was constantly edited because he kept using foul language) is brutal and the acusations are beyond reason (except maybe to you). the venom that you spew with your accusations and finger pointing towards the Chareidim is just as vile.
I guess we all make choices in life. here is your choice: who’s side do you want to be on, those that hate us because we are Yidden or those who love their fellow Yid and learn to overlook their faults just like a person overlooks their own faults?
respond/reply if you like. I for one could not care.
Mdlevine: There is no reason to say that they are anti-semites. You admit to everything, you just think we should overlook it. Well, that’s not a reasonable request. Someone who dislikes lawbreaders is not an anti-semite.
Lawman613: “I happen to know that liddleyiddle who said this about chassidim is a tax cheat and lets call that a FACT! now dont you go off denying facts:-(”
I won’t even degrade myself by denying this, but let’s just say, “How do you know?”
liddleyiddle – mdlevine did not admit to what you insinuate. He correctly pointed out the hateful allegations are complete falsehoods. What he did say as a general statement is that one should not look for faults in their brothers.
liddleyiddle, what are you talking about when you say that I “admit to everything” – I catergorically deny agreeing with cantoresq, you and the others that constantly castigate Chassidim and call them tax cheats, fraudsters and welfare cheats.
To all: my comment in post 24 “learn to overlook their faults just like a person overlooks their own faults” was in no manner meant to agree with the position of cantoresq, liddleyiddle or any others that look to castigate Chassidim. I hope by now that the people who have been reading my posts were not confused by this comment and if I offended anyone, I am sorry.
It was a general comment about overlooking others peoples faults, we always find ways to justify our own words/actions (faults), however when it comes to the other person, sadly, it isn’t so easy.
Alright, so it was misunderstood.
But the fact is, that you can’t reasonably turn a blind eye to everything. Sure, in a utopia that might be the perfect thing to do, but in the real world, actions that damage people or their reputations should not be ignored.
I do not castigate Chasidim. I castigate crooks. Frankly, it doesn’t take much gumption.
I don’t see how you can categorically deny all these claims, unless you are the accountant for all of the alleged crooks.
liddleyiddle – You tell us we cannot say they are NOT crooks since we do not know for sure, only you can say that they are even though you do not know that for sure.
Do not ASSUME your brothers are crooks. Assume the best, not the worst in your brothers.
If you don’t know whether someone is or is not a crook, that is all fine and well. But what I know, is not necessarily what you know.
Nobody knows everything. You can’t know that they are not crooks. However, some facts (not all) will tell you that they are.