Out Of The Mailbag – To YW Editor (Hillary, And Community Leaders)

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yw new logo1.jpgDear Yeshiva World, 

Although the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah told us to vote, they didn’t say for whom.

Not to worry. Boruch Hashem we have other yidden to help us out with that.

I find it funny (sickening), that when I open any Jewish newspaper I see endorsements for candidates by ordinary people (AKA:) “Community Leaders”. First of all, last I checked, the community “Leaders” are not a few Boro Park Hatzolah members, or the director of Chaveirim, or a Shomrim coordinator (as those ads clearly say) – but rather Leading Gedolim, Rabbonim, Admorim, and Roshei Yeshivos.

In a full page ad in the Hamodia is says the following: “THE GREATER JEWISH ORTHODOX COMMUNITY IN BROOKLYN ENDORSES HILLARY CLINTON,” and [some of] the signatures say: Yitzchok Fleisher (Bobov); Heshy Dembitzer (Administrator, Bobover Yeshiva); Moshe Gold (Belz); Rabbi Gershon Tennenbaum (Agudath Harabonim); Bernie Gips (Hatzolah); Avrumi Fischman (Krasne); Rabbi MD Niederman (Satmar) [who by the way was a staunch Rudy supporter just a few months ago see HERE]; Rabbi Aryeh Leib Glantz (Satmar); Chaskie Rosenberg (Paramedic, BP Activist); Aron Kohn (Chaveirim BP); Jacob Daskal (Shomrim BP); Moshe M. Senderowitz (Viznitz).

First of all, who are these “Community Leaders” to self proclaim that they represent the “Greater Jewish Orthodox Community”? And are we led to believe that BOBOV, SATMAR, HATZOLAH, SHOMRIM, CHAVEIRIM, KRASNE, VIZNITZ – all endorse Hillary? Did Rav Dovid Feinstein sign his name on behalf of Hatzolah? Did the Bobover Rebbe sign his name? Did the Satmar Rebbe sign his name? Were these Rabbonim even consulted?

Where is the Heter to deceive the general public into thinking that these organizations endorse a particular candidate?

Perhaps your readers should be informed that they should ask their individual Rov who they should vote for; and not pay any attention to any “Community Leaders”.

Disgusted in Brooklyn.


56 COMMENTS

  1. Dear disgusted,
    Take a chill pill. These endorsments mean nothing to the open minded individual. I assume you are a grown adult and fair minded individual and you can make your own rational decisions whom to cast your ballots for. If you cannot decide on your own, pick up your phone and call your local Rabbi, I am sure he can direct you in the right direction.
    As for all these askonim , ignore them, they have more in mind than your well being. They see the dinero’s ( kesef )thats what talks to them.
    They can call themselves whatever they want but we know deep down that they only represent themselves and their orginizations and not the general public.

  2. I voted for Dennis Kucinic. Why? He believes in space aliens. Imagine that. A Democrat who admits to being a wacko. I will vote for someone who tells me the truth every time.

  3. Dear Disgusted,
    I second your sentiments regarding this, but why take it so to heart? I laughed heartily when I saw
    the signatures of our “community LEADERS. They all do good deeds for the community, but I don’t consider them my LEADERS. It would be beneficial if our GEDOLIM would advise us whom to vote for.

  4. Don’t forget the sickening incident that took place this past November here in Lakewood!
    Hillary was given her ENDORSEMENT in the form of a fundraiser for her by the “askanim” of Lakewood. Most of the “askonim” gave the maximum allowed by law (and then gave from their wife’s to double that!)

    also see here on YW: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=11613

    Edited by Moderator.

  5. While I agree that the title clearly sounds like Genevas Da’as—to be Dan Lekaf Zchus I must say that the ad may have been in regards to the democratic primary where many would like to oust Obama and let Hillary duke it out with McCain or whoever in the REAL election.

  6. who cares what these people say? I dont think these are “leaders”
    doesnt that guy al sharpton think hes a “leader?” so if he says vote for someone cuz im a leader, you should?
    these ppl think they can push their hockerish clout around, so let them waste money on ads…

  7. I love how there are individuals endorsing only the Democrat’s side. What about people like me who are registered REPUBLICANS and can only vote for a Republican in the primary. No worries, becuase I did my own research and decided that Mike Huckabee was the one to receive my vote.

  8. Since when does voting have to do with Gedolim & Last I checked myself to find in Shulchan Oruch or Yoreh Dieah & Choshen Misphat & there is nothing mentioned about voting, just for your information votiong has been going on for the past hundreds or yrs. in europe, poland & rommania, all places where jews have lived, never have gedolim been involved in voting, all of a sudden the Gedolim are involved, what about our commen sense ?? is that gone, we cant make decisions anymore ?? Amazing !! we make some vary serious decisions each & every day without consulting Rabbonim or Gedolim, all of a sudden we lack judgement or common sense to figure out who is the right person for the job.

    I just would like to point out something that is alread mentioned by our Chazael in Pirkie Avos, check for yourself & basically what they say is that politicians only care about themselves & not you, there could not be more truth to this, however if we beleive differnet we are trying to deny Cahazel.

    I am in this country for over 50 Yrs. Kein Yirbuh & never did i ever need a favor from any public official & that includes the NYPD ( as every one is so excited to get pictures with them )hopefully i will never need to stoop that low & ask for a favor from any politician or political connection.

    If i have a legal problem i hire on attorney & if I need money i go to the bank, yes i have a terrific job with nice pay without any political help or connection, the lesson in life just pray everyday with a little deep Kavunah & all your problems will be solved & put your trust in Hashem as it says Baruch Hagever Asher Yivtach Bashem, you dont get anyting on your own or thru any connection at all.

    Meanwhile good luck to all you voters out there & i am going to stay at work without going to vote as my life is not giong to change one way or the other

    I will vote at the general election as that is when it really counts, the current delegate elections is a very antiquiated system & should be abolished

  9. “It would be wise to take Disgusted in Brooklyn’s advice to heart and do only what the gedolim tell us to”.
    BTW you probably have certain GEDOLIM in mind, who follow your individual hashkafa?

  10. I must take exception to the author of this diatribes assumption. Anyone can ”endorse” anyone they desire (assuming Gedolei Yisroel have not decreed otherwise).

    I do agree the hubris involved in the language of these advertisements is unfortunate. Their positions of being a director of Yeshiva X or Shomrim is entirely irrelevant and misleading in its attempt to imply the organization is somehow endorsing their personal endorsement.

    And as others have stated above, people in our community are wise enough to make a judicous decision in their vote.

  11. LevTov you are SechelTov. Yasher Koach for using your sechel. Daas Torah and voting are a recent combination that I believe came into vouge with Agudah trying to get more delgates in various governing bodies.

  12. #9 is right on!! Do not go like lemings to the sea following your leaders. The reason why you do not hear of Gedolim endorsing candidates is that they know that their expertise lies with Torah and not with secular matters. Hashem distinguised us from the animal world by giving us daas. Use it!

  13. I think that it’s a good thing that we have askanim giving endorsments. They are certainly not daas Torah, & should never be confused with it. But, when we need the favors of people in power, these askanim are able to have them work for our benefit.

  14. first of all, there are tax reasons for an organization not to endorse a candidate (though that doesnt stop the catholics and the “askanim”, not to compare the two).

    second, most of these “askanim” are just looking out for who will give their org’s the most govt grant$$$$, not necessarily help our community. to wit, they endorse hillary (or even sadam (his middle name) obama), even if they actively endorse “toaivot” (everyone, and i mean everyone, who endorsed spitzer, for example, who specifically said he endorses “toaivah” and now doesnt even give the “askanim” their tuition tax credits so they can raise tuition again!)

  15. levtov32, it’s very small minded to think that just because you personally didn’t need a favor from a politician then it doesn’t really mater. These elections effect the whole country in many many ways.

    The record of having frum people endorse a “Toeiva” candidate and advansing their agenda just for some benifets,on a communal scale, is something I think you only find in the Jewish religion, unfortunately.

    By the religious Goyim, if a community endorses a left winger it’s because they identify with the message and practice accordingly. By us it’s very transparent how some money is the price for any principals…

  16. The reason you don’t hear gedolim (who are part of organizations) endorsing specific candidates, is because they don’t want to jeopardize their (organization’s) tax exempt status. They also don’t want to ‘burn their bridges’ by committing too strongly in a public way for one side, if the other side wins. Privately you can get many of them to tell you who they think we should vote for. People like R’ Avigdor Miller, ztl, who didn’t have those concerns, never shied away from telling people for whom to vote.
    And anyone who says that Daas Torah should not affect voting, or that their expertise lies in other matters, has a ‘schmek of apikorsus’ on the concept of Daas Torah, whom we should consult on all matters of significance, both Torah and secular, even if we can’t see their expertise. That’s the difference between Da’as Torah and Da’as Baalei batim.

  17. A distinguished Rosh Yeshiva SHLIT”A, who is a senior member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah, complained to me privately early in Bill Clinton’s presidency about the serious decline in morality in America that will take place under that president.

    As Mr. Clinton has a dominant role in Ms. Clinton’s campaign, that warning is relevant now and should be heeded.

    This is in addition to remembering their past friendship and support of the Arafats, Ymoch Shmam.

  18. disgusted in brooklyn,

    why on earth did you think you have the chutzpah to write such lashon hara about these rabbonim? vote for whoever you want to vote for! you don’t need to vote for Hillary! trust me i wouldn’t either, but if your disgusted about voteing for Hillary, i think you should be more disgusted how you can even think of writing these rabbonims names-who i think your going to have to ask mechila from, cuz your point in this letter is to bash them-which is another aveirah in itself.

    so i will try to be dan lkaf zechus you, that you never learnt the halachos of lashon hara.

  19. #18 and #19 thank you for defending Kavod HaTorah. I agree with you 100%. I just can’t believe these are yeshiva world posters.

    The chazon ish bitterly decried people who think that gedolim should only pasken halachos of basar and chalav and the like, but don’t see that gedolim are our source for guidance in all areas of “shuk Hachaim.”

  20. To all thoes getting excited about Daas Torah telling us for whom to vote, let me just remind all you readers, that Hubert Humphrey came to the Satmar Rav Zatzal, and if i am correct this was the very first time a presidential candidate ever came to a real Gadol Beyisroel & This Gadol never told anybody how & for whom to vote & i grew in that era.

    So all you hotheads cool your heels a little bit with your stupid commnents like Kefirah or Rishos
    as its nothing more than a bunch of nonsense.

    Now let me ask you a question which GOY cares about the so called TOAIVHA or better yet CHUCK SCHUMMER who is a jew is openly pro abortion & never voted for any judge that is ANTI abortion & any body sitting in Wash. does not care about Morals or Religion especially Jews, just to name a few BOXER, FEINSTEIN, LIEBERMAN & SHCUMMER
    all they care is to be reelected again

  21. Rav Avigdor Miller, ZT”L, said it very bluntly–Such endorsements are all about money–and they are a Chilul HaShem when the candidate openly promotes legalization of the worst forms of immorality.

    Rav Hutner made it clear that the general legal code of the country affects all of us, even if we are not directly involved.

  22. “Since when does voting have to do with Gedolim & Last I checked myself to find in Shulchan Oruch or Yoreh Dieah & Choshen Misphat & there is nothing mentioned about voting, just for your information votiong has been going on for the past hundreds or yrs. in europe, poland & rommania, all places where jews have lived, never have gedolim been involved in voting, all of a sudden the Gedolim are involved, what about our commen sense ??”

    Excuse me. I understand it is quite easy to attempt to rewrite history to fit some low moralistic lifestyle. The fact is, the Gedolim in Europe had plenty of influence in those elections. In fact, Reb Meir Shappiro (among other Talmidei Chachmoim) was a member of the Polish Parliament.

    FYI: Torah is something that guides our lives, from the greatest to the most (seemingly) mundane matters. History has shown us where those who challenged this ended up, and the destruction they have wrought.

  23. I have a suggestion.

    Why doesn’t someone go to the many Gedolim – from all communities, chasidish, Yeshivish, modern – and ask them to write down and publish their thoughts on voting and US politics. Not who to vote for, but who to think about it.

    This way in days, weeks, and years to come people like us can’t sit in front of a keyboard and make salacious claims about what this Gadol said and or that one didn’t.

    In fact I assume that if many of these Gedolim knew that their words and thoughts were being twisted – on the internet no less – they would be most upset.

    Remember — Vote early, vote often!

  24. I agree with the writer. These endorsements make it seem like EVERYONE is voting for Hillary, or that the Rabbanim are saying to vote for her.
    Clearly, any educated person can read bet. the lines and decide for themselves.
    However, I have witnessed (firsthand) a whole community of ppl blindly following the masses bec. they are NOT educated, have no access to REAL newspapers or the radio, and therefore believe everything they read in their local yiddish newspapers.
    That sickens me.
    Its the uneducated that are being taken advantage of.

  25. If the Satmar Rav didn’t endorse Hubert Humphrey after being visited, then that was his Daas Torah at that time. That doen NOT mean that every gadol has abdicated the right and ability to issue an opinion on another election, should they choose. I was not protesting any specific gadols decision to endorse or not endorse. What I was protesting was the assertion by some commenters on this site that it is out of their expertise.

  26. Not that Gedolim can’t or shouldn’t suggest who to vote for – but WHY CAN’T each man think and decide for themselves? Usually, because we have so many needs in common, we end up voting in “clusters” anyway… though not necessarily for the exact same person. (Which in the long-run is good, so whoever wins got some support from our community and hopefully feels an obligation to help us when necessary.)

    I don’t understand why this writer is so hot and bothered by anyone voicing their opinion…(“community leaders” or layman) NO ONE is FORCED to vote as per suggestion…

    Besides, we are really lots of communities within a community – so we probably all consider different people as “our leaders”.

  27. First of all, it is utter apikorsus to imply that Rabbonim are not to decide who to vote for. So you’re smarter then them?!?

    Second: have you considered the TERRIBLE chilul HaShem. Showing as if Yidden favor monotary gains over moral issues.

    No upright decent human being should vote for Ms. Clinton. Enough of their dirty depary in the white house before. We don’t need our children listening to their filthy scandalous lifestyle, aired by one bombshell investigation after another.

    See how shameless she is. The fact that she appears in public is shameful. (She should have been visiting her impeached husbad in jail! – It is only because of the low morality of congress which he brought to the nation, that he wasn’t impeached. – Shame on him, Shame on us!)

    Enough is Enough.

    We DON’T need the likes of her representing us. Nor do we want her or anyone else to think that we have ANY interest in her candidacy (even in the event ח”ו that she wins ר”ל).

  28. Tu Shema- yesterday YW brought “Rabbi Levin’ IN The name of Agudas Harabanim(Union OF Orthodox Rabbis) and todays kol koreh refers to Rabbi Tennenbaum of Agudas Harabanim- iz doch shver minei ubei- a stirah in positions!
    Eloh mai- neither speak for the Agudas Harabanim- vedoch zil gmor!

  29. please stop using the terms rasha and kefira so much so describe jews with other opinions. by trying to show the gravity of people’s errors by using these terms , u forget the gravity of disparaging other people. and for what, YW??

  30. #34, you point is well taken. It is not only gedolim who are quiet and dignified in their expressions of belief, but alaso hoi poloi who do so as well when their beliefs are sincere.

  31. Everyone has to take a deep breath & count till 10. The throwing around of the word Kefira is a little harsh & the Gedolim-bashing is all very tasteless.

    Nobody is making you vote. And if you want to vote, you can do so for whomever you please. But to turn this into an all-out war is uncalled for!

    RELAX!!!

  32. THE OILAM SHOULD BE AWARE THAT NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS MAY NOT ENDORSE CANDIDATES OR ENGAGE
    IN POLITICAL ACTIVITIES WITHOUT JEOPORADIZING THEIR
    TAX-EXEMPT STATUS.

    FURTHERMORE, BECAUSE THESE ORGANIZATIONS OFTEN NEED
    FAVORS, OR JUST THE EAR OF, ELECTED OFFICIALS WHEN
    THEY LOBBY ON OUT BEHALF, THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO ANTAGONIZE ANYONE. THEREFORE, THEY HEDGE THEIR BETS BY HAVING DIFFERENT MEMBERS OF THEIR ORGANIZATIONS SUPPORTING DIFFERENT CANDIDATES.

  33. dEAR “ANONYMOUS…(35):

    Rabbi Tennenbaum is the Secretary of the Igud Harabonim (Rabbi Abraham Hecht’s organization), not Agudas Horabonim.

    Rabbi Levin has officially represented both of these organizations on moral issues, for which he is uniquely qualified, having been given extensive HadRaCha on the subject by Rav Avigdor Miller, ZT”L..

  34. The fact is Gedolim do advise on whom to vote for. In the 2004 elections Rav Elyashiv Shlita made it very clear that all frum yidden should vote for President Bush. While he might have had other reasons that he did not want people to know or question, the reason he gave was that we must show our Hakoras Hatov to the president for being so Pro-Israel.

  35. Before making a military decision Dovid Hamelech would consult with THREE entities: The Sanhedrin (poskim), The military experts (Askanim?), and the Urim Vetumim. (Brachos 3b)

    “Daas Torah” takes everything into account. The opinion of the askanim is valued, the Pesakim are examined and a Torah decision is reached. People with “Daas Torah” are those who are best equipped to evaluate all of the information and give us the “Torah View”. The Chazon Ish spoke to doctors before disagreeing with them, Rav Shach consulted with the military experts, Rav Shlomo Zalman learned with scientists. Gedolim want to know what the Askanim think.

    Please do not call me a complete Kofeir. I am very sensitive.

  36. You should vote! But make up your own mind! You can consult your rebbe or rov for advice. No Jewish frum organization wants to mix in publicly with politics. The candidates pay for these ads,or individuals who want to buy favors put them in,hoping their person will win and then reward them. Old-fashioned bribery,politics as usual. Don’t get exited about the ads,just vote your conscience!

  37. what an important discussion ? why cant everyone just keep their useless nonsense to themselves-instead of spewing their brainless chatter. vote or endorse whoever u feel like.over.

  38. It says clearly in the ad that the organization name is for identification purposes only AND does NOT mean that that organization endorses hillary.

  39. the caption should have read “on behalf of OURSELVES we urge you to vote etc.” these people represent their own interests (ie $$$$$)the hamodia and other papers agreeing to include this advertisement should use a little editorial discretion and not accept adds that are flagrant mistruths (just being polite), as no one but no one can write the words “on behalf of the orthdox community”

  40. #62, I think “mired” is worth at least 7 or 8 points. Maybe even 8.5. I’m not sure that “puffery” gets the full 10, but I won’t refuse them either.

  41. So this is what the Yeshivish world has come to. #36 quotes a “great Gadol” for the proposition that if it is ossur to look at a woman, one can’t vote for one either.Now I know why Art Scroll is airbrushing the pictures of Rav Moshe Feinstein’s wife from all the photos of them together at simchas. You should all go back and read the Ramban on “menuval birshus HaTorah” and chosid shotah.

  42. I hear a rumor that the editors of those holy newspapers who never mention the name of a woman
    (e.g. mazal tov to Moishe Pipick on the engagement of his son Yankel to the daughter of Yechezkel Ploni – or “the holy niftar leaves behind five wonderful sons and three sons-in-law”….) are planning a new edition of the TORAH, leaving out all female names (e.g. And Adam called his wife’s name Mrs. Adam, etc.) and all references to “yefas to-ar” and “yefas mar-eh” will be deleted because they lead to hirhurim asurim. Can anyone confirm this rumor? Just imagine what will happen to Shir HaShirim!
    I want to apply for the job!

    Unemployed writer

  43. ravizzy, does the rumor also include changing monikers here on YW so that “frumbubby” will now be known as the “wifeoffrumzeide” and “brooklynmom” in now “brooklynfatherswife”? what do we do with “BYGirl” – change it to “hasabrotherintheMir”?

  44. # 68 Gevaldig, you have to understand its Called Mishanecnas Ador Marbin Mesimcha, this website somehow attracts all those LUNEY’S & its quite diversified with opinions & lots of people right dumb & stupid ideas & the best way is to ignore them,

    No, you dont have to beleive everything just because it appears on a website, in addition you should not beleive anything with out a name of a RAV in order verify the accuracy or the truth.

    usually when there is a full moon they are out in droves however this month is Adar, so we are going to have them for the next two months, instead of responding grav a glass of wine & make a LACHAIM

  45. Illini07: I must say that i don’t always agree with you, but your post #46 is a dose of good perspective. DOn’t waste your energies fighting battles you won’t win anyway.

  46. # 70 Yasher Koach & if your mood is in the dumps drop me a line & i maybe able to cheer you up & will drink together & its called

    Birds of a feather flock together

    as the saying goes

    Ich VEL MACHEN LEBEDIG & FRIELICH you dont need Lipa or Yankel as their time has passed a long time ago & they are yesterdays news. i could do it all be myself

    Chag Somach

  47. If the rabbonim want to give their opinion as to how one should vote, that is fine (taking away the legal issues (tax exempt status etc.)) However, when it comes down to it, it is the responsibility of the voter to make an informed decision as to who he would like to vote form and why. If you are going to vote, then be informed, and not just follow another’s opinion blindly

  48. the truth of the matter is that lev
    melachim beyad hashem so all those askanim are saying whatever they want i dont care what they say i am a full fledged republican and sir john mccain is the chosen one so all you democrats i wish good luck but you have no chance so go mcaiin