Urgent Legislative Alert Regarding Toeiva Marriage


paw2.jpgThe following alert went out today from Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, executive vice president, Agudath Israel of America to New York constituents:

We just received word that the New York State Senate may be about to vote – as early as later today – on a bill that would legalize same-gender marriage. This bill is both morally and legally unacceptable, and could lead to serious negative consequences.

As the bill has already passed in the State Assembly, and Governor Paterson has already indicated his support, the only hope for its defeat is in the hands of the Senate Republicans; if they stand firm against the bill, it is unlikely to pass.

We urge you to take a minute right now and:

1. Call your State Senator. Leave a message with whoever answers urging him or her to vote against the same-gender marriage bill. To be connected to your State Senator (or if you don’t know who your State Senator is) go to http://www.nysenate.gov/ and just type in your address under “Find Your Senator”. Or, you can call the Senate information office at 518-455-3216 and they will connect you. Phone calls are far more effective than e-mails, so please call!

2. Call Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos at 518-455-3171. Tell whoever answers that our community is watching closely how every Republican Senator votes on this defining issue, and that we ask Senate Minority Leader Skelos to do all in his power to assure that all Republicans stand firm against this bill.

3. Please then pass this e-mail along to as many friends as you can who are likely to make similar calls.

Together, we can help defeat this pernicious legislation.

(YWN World Headquarters – NYC)


  1. While this bill is, unfortunately, continuing the slippery-slope decline of the moral values of our society, I also fail to see the importance of the issue as it relates to the Jewish community.

    Yes, I would like my State Senator to not vote for this. But, given a choice between using the chits that the Jewish community has in order to fight this issue or using the chits to push those same legislators to provide other help to the community, I’m choosing the latter and not thinking twice.

  2. Let us each tell our state senator that we cannot live in an immoral environment. Accordingly:
    (1) If he/she votes for same-gender “marriage,” we will work to defeat them in the next election.
    (2) If our efforts to have this abomination rejected or overturned fail, we and our famillies — and many other religious people — will move to another state.

  3. I must agree with lawman-(#1)
    While there is no question that this type of legislation is a toevah, when there are so many pressing and urgent issues challenging the frum community, why focus on this? Gay marriage really has nothing to do with us. Our focus in such perilous times has to be Iranvis a vis Israel, anti semitism all over the world etc…

  4. mt mehdi,

    Legislating toeva into law is very different that toeva “happening”, and I believe Hashem is watching very closely to see who among us is taking a stand for Hashem’s morals.

  5. I just called and they said its not even on the calendar. so lets not waste our time right now, they aren’t talking about it, although maybe an early call doesn’t hurt

  6. The very same posters here who are okay with toeva marriage becoming law, will be okay with allowing people to walk stark naked in the street.

    After all, “Why do we have to impose our morals on the non-Jews?”

  7. “Gay marriage really has nothing to do with us”
    (ASINBURT–NO. 6)

    What planet do you live on?

    Don’t you know that there is a Toeva child abuse crisis in our community, caused by the encouragement in law of these abominations?

    Don’t you know that the situation has become so serious that D.A. Charles Hynes has created a special task force to deal with this problem IN OUR COMMUNITY?

    Don’t you know that the NY Post, just yesterday, did a story on the suicide of the newlywed Choson in Boro-Park, explaining that his wife couldn’t take the revelation that he had suffered Toeva child abuse?

    What is the matter with people like you and “lawman” (no.1) that they have such an extreme case of myopia?

  8. I just called and they said its not even on the calendar. — “rashkebahab”–no. 9.

    I’m afraid you are naive. Do you really think you know better than Rabbi Zweibel, a professional?

    “When is a politician lying–whenever he moves his lips!”


  9. mt medhi: #1 it will raise
    costs as emplployers will have
    To include these couples in
    whatever benefit packages they
    offer other couples. #2 it
    will encourage these individuals
    to “come out of the closet”
    thus making their influence
    on society more likely. We will
    Become dulled and insensitive
    to the abomination.

  10. mt mehdi: Gilui arayos is
    one of the seven Noachide laws.
    To’eivah is included.

    Comment by shuali — November 17, 2009 @ 5:44 pm

    Nice try. Where does it say that Toeva is included in the Sheva Mitzvos B’nei Noach.

  11. mt mehdi —

    shuali (#17) is absolutely correct. One of the 7 Nachide laws is illicit relations. It is common sense that male toevah is included. But nevertheless the Rabbinic literature clearly lists male toevah as one of the 6 illicit acts included in this Noachide law.

  12. #18 — Guess what, after thousands of years of our Torah shebekesav being taken by the gentiles claiming that Gd has forsaken the Jews, the Aybishter had the foresight l’chatchila to leave the issur of gilui arayos in the Torah She bal peh.

  13. mt mehdi this is the problem with most ignorant posters like you . coming on a ben torah site, ignorant of torah s’he beksav and bal peh and stating his own view, his ‘own torah’ thru secular prisims..FYI see mes. sanhedrin perek arba misos. i think its daf 57a or those few pages where the gemorrah covers the benei noach mitzvos, and toivah is mentioned.

  14. #11-

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but this type of child abuse is not correlated in any way to other to’eiva activity. The perpetrators are straight or gay, it really doesn’t matter. The ta’ivah for this dispicable act of abuse has nothing to do with whether one generally prefers males or females. Not to take anything away from the importance of defeating this bill, but please don’t cry wolf by making connections where none exist.

  15. Those powerful (Toaiva agenda) entities who wish to see this Toaiva bill succeed are waiting for just the right moment to pass it under our noses but out of our view.There are political allies and friends in Albany who keep leaders like Rabbi Zwiebel and R ‘Shmuel Lefkowitz informed.
    Follow the advice of Rabbi Zwiebel.
    Call Sen. Dean Skalos,John Sampson,Rev. Diaz. These officials need to hear from you. Tell them how much you support keeping marriage as is!
    Call Kevin Parker and Dianne Savino and ask them how dare they support a bill that their constituants are against! Make sure that both Republicans and Democrats know that there will be hell to pay for supporting same gender marriage.

    Please let us not be complacent, call your Senators and raise your voices now. Our voices must be heard. Follow what is written above. Dont lose these numbers. This bill is very much on the Senates agenda but thanks to the efforts of very dedicated and effective Askonim here and upstate the bill quietly has been repeaditly thwarted for “lack of enough votes.”It may still see the light of day but not if the Askonim can help it.
    Do your part-call and email the Senators.
    Pressure works.

  16. In addition to Mesechtes Chullin 92a saying toeva is against the 7 mitzvos bnei noach, it says the same in Asarah Ma’amaros, Ma’amar Chikur Din 3:21. It is also said by Rabbeinu Shmuel bar Hofni HaKohen, one of the last Geonim in Sura.

    So here are three separate sources (and there are more) that say in black and white that toevah is against the Seven Laws for goyim.

  17. The same people who say that TOEAVA marriage has nothing to do w/ us, would probably drill a whole in their cabin on a ship ( the famous Moshel ).

    We’re all connected. It has everything to do w/ us. Just think about it.

  18. #22..sorry, we busted your bubble. see #26,#23 etc..when it somes to advocating pro torah, your afraid of ‘playing dangerous game’, but when it comes to be matir assurim which is far more dangerous, as it brings down on us c’v midas hadin (if you believe in such concept)..your not worried about ‘playing a dangerous game’

  19. #29 how can you have such views as ‘toeiva is up for debate if its morally wrong’ and come state it on a shomrei torah site. this is pure kefirah on one of the taryag. the talmud states if one is even in deneial of 1 ois in the torah he’s a heretic, kolsheken .. please go to atheists site

  20. #14 I called two offices of the state senators and made our view known to them and they both gave me the same answer. I think the seretaries know what is scheduled and don’t really mind if i say my piece. One said that a rumor did go out that this bill was being considred, but it is not true. Rabbi Zweible is correct for being on guard, but if you call and they anwer you tht way than why Call?