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YW Editor: A dead dog, or a dead person?!

dead dog.jpgYesterday, I read an article on many news websites which churned my stomach. There was a 62 year-old man who was driving his motorcycle near Tel Aviv, hit a cement truck and was thrown to the ground, and killed. This took place in an intersection with four lanes in each direction – and literally hundreds of cars passing every 20 minutes. What made make me sick was the following.

This poor man is lying critically injured on the road for a few minutes, and cars are maneuvering their vehicles to “get around him”. This was all captured on a video surveillance camera and was posted on many websites.

Naturally, the headlines were “Only in Israel”, “Israeli’s ignore their dead” and other embarrassing statements.

The images are just heartbreaking. I have no words to describe my feelings when I watched the video. Just try and imagine it. A man is hit by a cement truck, he’s lying in the middle of one of the busiest intersections in Eretz Yisroel – and people are just driving around him like he’s a dead dog??!!

Talking about a dead dog, that’s what urged me to write this piece quickly.

This morning, on the Jerusalem Posts website it read as follows: Dozens of Jerusalemites gathered on Tuesday afternoon to help a puppy that had fallen off a second-floor balcony on Jaffa Rd. Pedestrians stopped in the 32-degree heat to pick the puppy up and take him into a nearby clothing store to protect him from the heat. The puppy survived the fall and was retrieved by his owner.

I’m finished writing……I’ll leave the rest to you.

YW Editor.

77 Responses

  1. Shocking!
    It is said that the Nazis Y’S LEARNED the act of cruelty by having to raise a
    puppy. Love it, feed it, nurture it and then KILL it with their bare hands!!!

    Having said that and then reading this piece makes my stomach turn as well! At least the JP had the decency to refer to these people as ‘Jerusalemites’ and not JEWS. I imagine these were the same types who physically tortured that Chareidi during a hafganah a few weeks ago!

  2. This is horrifying! Watching the video is terrible. So many cars just go around him, like he’s nothing more than a dead dog in the road. Oh my goodness. Hashem Yerachem.

  3. This is shocking. But I recall many years ago that this was unthinkable in Israel. At the time, the US Media was all engrossed in the distressing attitude that people had in Queens New York when a woman was attacked and murdered over a 20 minute period, on a street full of apartment houses, and nobody called the police. They just “didn’t want to get involved”. In those days in Israel, the attitude was so different, I remember hearing a woman screaming (at her husband it turned out) in my neighborhood in Yerushalayim and the street filled with people who wanted to know what was going on – and stop it.

    It sounds like people have changed, and for the worse.

  4. esg:

    Thats atotally different case, In Queens it was a
    murder and people were afraid of getting involved perhaps for the risk of being the ‘next victim’, But here this was an accident and driversl were just indifferent as opposed to being concerned about an animal!

  5. YW, this is indeed a worthy point, but maybe we can be Dan liKaf Zichus.

    Helping a dog in the heat is a nice thing to do and does not endanger one’s life in any significant way – it is a mere inconvenience for a well-hydrated healthy person to help a dog out even in severe heat.

    Please hear me out here before commenting (if you wish). Driving on Israeli roads is dangerous, ViKal sheKein stopping on one is even more so. Stopping on an Israeli road, particularly at a very busy one, is not something that I would expect just anyone to do.

    Was there even a shoulder on which one could park a car? Would the would-be rescuer be able to safely walk into that intersection to help the motorist or would he be putting his own life in danger as well?

    It is very possible that of the many people who came upon this horrific scene while driving, took out their phones and called Hatzalah (MDA) and/or 911 (whatever the number is, in Israel).

    Maybe there should be emergency areas where people can pull over and help, but only the police have lights and sirens and can park their car in the middle of the road and motorists will notice it from a half-mile away and safely take an alternate lane.

    Maybe Israel (and elsewhere) should teach how to pull over and help a motorist in need, when there is no shoulder in which to safely park one’s car and how to attract enough attention so as to be able to safely walk into an intersection (if such a thing is even possible) to help a motorist in need.

  6. If Americans are wondering what is so hot about 32 degrees, it is most probably 32 degrees celcius which equals about 90 degrees farenheit.

  7. when a jew falls he falls lower then a goy!
    a yid that runs away from the thorah loses his ‘midah’ of ‘rachmonim bnei rachmonim’

  8. Zionism coming from some of your lips is simply another “ism” of which you can use to point fingers, and disparage even more people you know don’t have no clue who they are. Yet, anything to push some blame on another Jew. I am a “zionist” (sic) and my Rabbi is Harav Zolty, shlita, Rosh Yeshiovot Mir. Guess Klal Yisrael does hate each other. Thank you, Yeshiva Blog readers for alienating yet another group.

  9. Once, when I was 7 months pregnant, I fell down in the middle of the sidewalk in Boro Park. No one helped me either.

  10. I think the people driving just didn’t know what to do, if they even realized what happened. It’s not every day that someone is seen lying in the street and we’re not all prepared for that.

    Keep your eyes on the clock in the video – it took ONE MINUTE for those people on motorcycles to come and assist. I bet there was an ambulance there a minute later. Why did those motorcycle people drive there – I bet they were EMTs and they were called by one of those passing drivers.

    It would have been best if traffic came to an immediate halt, but there was assistance there ONE MINUTE LATER.

  11. If you watch the video, the Niftar gets hit at 14:08:13, and at 14:09:16 people have already stopped to help. Also, in keeping with what HaKatan says, the first to stop are other drivers on motorcycles who are able to jump the curb and park their vehicle out of the line of traffic.

    That being said, I dont understand how anyone could just drive past.


  12. I didn’t see any pedestrians in the video. Only they could have helped (if they know first aid). A motorist stopping would have blocked the box and caused a traffic jam slowing any ambulance on the way.

    In addition, the camera angle is misleading as it is very high. A person in a car would not see the man or a motorcycle on the groud untill they are pretty close.

  13. im willing to bet that should this chas vishalaom have taken place in mea shearim there would have been hundreds of people trying to help the man.

    kind of says something about the folk in tel aviv

    vehamayvin yavin

  14. Israeli Citizen:

    ‘Vehamayvin Yovin’

    why dont you just say it the way it is, something about the ‘folk’ who are anti frum, period!!! Tel Aviv, Yerushalayim, Natanya etc; etc,,,,,

  15. The fact remains.

    Should this Chas V’shalom taken place in a highly populated frum community – there would have been hundreds of people swarming to assist the aided.

    Be it Boro Park, Manchester, Antwerp, Flatbush, Lakewood, Kiryas Yoel, Kiryas Tosh, Toronto, Mexico City, Switzerland, Crown Heights, Monsey, Queens, Far Rockaway, Fallsburg etc etc etc etc etc etc.

  16. Let’s move beyond the silliness of trying to categorize which community or less sensitive than the next and ignore the outright shtus of blaming Zionism for this’

    No one is blaming ‘Zionism’, the blame lies with those not educated with the right Hashkofos. Those who were not taught the proper middos. I CAN ASSURE YOU that if a true erlicher Yid were driving by he would find a way to be of assitance. iTS THE MENTALITY of the savage, wild wreckle anti frulm!!!!!

  17. now that isreal is a secular country and anti dati. this is a normal act from people who dont beleave in mitzvos like hatzolas nefoshos, biker cholim, pikiach nefesh etc. why the big deal? now they eat the fruit of the tree that they planted.

  18. I watched this video a couple of times…
    I came to a conclusion that only 8 or 9 vehicles saw the person lying there! (maybe even less) and they might have stopped as soon as they got out of the intersection… You can see a person running to look from the right, most likely he stopped his car and ran back!

    I looked at this video at first expecting to start criticizing as well, but I can’t see the reasoning!

  19. urbmase you know very well that noone is refering to “zionists” in Yeshivas Mir. Mr. Fox made a very good point that our job is not to play a blame game, but to learn from things how we can improve ourselves. I would like to believe that this is the basis of most of the comments here. Many can be understood to be blaming the ideology that may have led to there things, rather than the people themselves. As such, anyone who does not have this ideology should not feel alienated in any way, and we should uproot any bits of it inside us. With that said, one must keep in mind that the population of Tel Aviv is not excavy a “cross section.”

  20. being dan lekav zchus is very nice,but for all those who saw this video and watched it carefully,it is nothing short of dispicable,disgusting an embrassing!that this person should lay there as if he was part of the road?and mr hakatan your post is ridiculous!!
    you make it sound like it was a high speed highway with people whizzing past!there were many trafficlights around and all the people that passed by went very very slow to see what was going on!come’on youre trying to say it wasnt safe to stop?they coudve easily stopped and jumped out!
    yw editor youre absolutely correct!he shouldnt of been lying there for 15 seconds!he shouldve been tended to immediately even by those who dont know cpr or first aid!since when does a person have to be certified in first aid to be a mentsh?to be a human caring person and check to see if a fellow person is okay???

  21. All the posts about this being the attitude of the irreligious, is all symptoms of zionism.

    The truth can be said. I’ll stand by that with all the flack I can get.

  22. Mr. Fox
    who says I agree with Joseph??? No, in fact I do not like to comment when I see your name, I’m not a ‘nit picker’ I dont like to defend the indefensible!

    The point is that the Frum were educated with different hashkofos as aprevious poster indicated. WE are aware of what it means to be ‘MATZIL’ another Jew whatever the case. Whether the driver was frum or not is not the point! Yes, i agree that this should be a ‘wake up call’ for all of us regardless of what our education entailed. But the ‘Anti Frum’ mentality is certainly not to be admired. I still say that those who were brought up modestly and with middos would NOT have just ‘stepped over a dead body’. Its just not what we stand for. We are Bayshonim, Rachmonim and Gomlei Chasodim. Lets preserve that!

  23. Stop all this bashing!
    This took place in an extremely busy intersection-
    people were driving their cars and came upon this completely unexpectedly on a sunny day and: watch the clip: some obviously noticed (and had nowhere to stop-traffic is coming non-stop) and some obviously DIDN’T SEE it at all(e.g. the bus-its coming too fast) !! ALSO- immediately after this happened you see a pedestrian in the foreground FRANTICALLY talking on a cell phone…..seconds later people are running from ALL DIRECTIONS to ASSIST.
    Any NORMAL human being especially a Jew! would not purposely abandon the needy-I think this was a case where people who SAW the scene:
    #1-didn’t believe their eyes, #2-werent sure what to do with themselves untill the reality hit.
    Obviously people stopped because people came to assist from the right side of the scene!
    Please try to somehow be dan lekaf zechus-we dont need MORE strife!

  24. Please – let’s dan klal yisroel le’kaf zechus.
    1. Please, let’s not do a ‘we’ and ‘them’. Hasn’t everyone done something or said something w/o thinking? We would want others to understand our shortcomings. Since we don’t know what went through the minds of each & every driver, we dont know if they all were just following the taillights in front of them without noticing their surroundings. This isn’t any excuse; it’s a possible explanation.
    2. Secondly, you compare apples to apples; oranges to oranges. The exact same people in 1 situation were not in the second situation.

  25. To all of you who want to be ‘dan lecuf zechus’ KOL HAKOVOD!

    Do you think those ‘Jerusalemites’ who ran to save the dog did it so that they can prevent ‘Tzaar B’lichayim’???? dont think so, its so un JEWISH to prioritize with an animal rather than for every single driver to find a solution, any solution to help the cyclist!

  26. Does all this mean that non-Jews are even more animalistic than “zionist,” and “anti-frum” people. One would asssume from the posts above that only “frum” jews would know how to act in this instance. So easy to point fingers and cast dispersions.

  27. Enough with bashing the non frum, the people who live in Tel Aviv, the zionists, etc.. and comparing Jews to Nazis – chas veshalom! Doesn’t the non Jewish world just LOVE to find something bad about us – be it frum or not – a Jew is a Jew as far as they are concerned. Do we really have to add to this terrible tragedy by being devisive and finger pointing?
    Read this quote from the victim’s daughter – she could teach us all a thing or two about being “dan lekaf zechus”!!!
    His daughter is dealing with it in her own way. “It’s hard for me to think that no one helped him. I prefer to believe that people were in shock and didn’t understand what had happened,” Yisraeli’s daughter, Tali, told reporters, according to Reuters.

  28. The knee-jerk reaction on this forum to anything bad that happens in Eretz Yisroel is to blame “zionism” and/or “zionists”. Forget the facts. Invent them. Forget emess. Forget dan-lekaf-zchuss. The fact is that NOONE knows who was in the cars that passed without stopping on the spot. Half of them could have been chareidim. Or none of them. Or all of them. All of ONE MINUTE passed until help arrived. All of 8-9 vehicles passed without stopping.
    Not too long ago, a mogen-dovid person was crossing a busy highway in EY to help an accident victim, and was hit and KILLED in the busy highway. Knowing this, would anyone so easily stop his car in the middle of a busy highway, or rather think clearly and quickly and pull over when physically possible? Imagine if a car would have stopped on the spot in order to help, and therby caused a chain accident with more injured and killed! Then everyone here would again blame the zionists/secular/frummies for stopping instead of pulling over farther down the road?!

    Ahl tadun ess chavercha ahd shetagiya limkomo.
    Havei dan ess kol ho-odom lekaff zchuss.

  29. Aishes Chayil: #1- there is no video clip of the people saving the dog- how do you know that it didn’t ALSO take those people 60 seconds or so till people stopped and helped the dog.
    #2-REMEMBER AND NOTICE the video of the accident IS IN SLOW MOTION-this all happened in real time.

  30. Really disgusting.

    In my neighborhood the reaction would have been different. People would have come running from all directions. Immediately.

    (And they would have promptly stolen the bike. And his wallet as well).

    (heh heh)

  31. Stop and Think.

    The article says that dozens of Jerusalimites GATHERED to help this dog. I am just commenting based on what I read.

    Whatever the case, why cant we just conclude that every Jew was blessed with these three wonderful charachteristics. We must nurture them, train them and practice. Our Frum hashkofos taught us how and I feel sorry for those who didnt get that same trainng but its a sad fact.

    the ‘dan lekaff zechus’ defense is absoltuly irrelevant in this case. One must always judge for
    the good but we are not required to be naive. What I saw on the video was very disturbing!

  32. The most appropriate comment I can share comes from a old Rov, and mechanech. He was in my Yeshiva for his grand son’s Bar mitzvah (Early 1970’s) and he said this vort:

    He asked, The Parsha of “Eglah Arufa’ is Very strange. Why is it that when a murdered person is found we kill a calf? What did the poor calf do?

    He explained with this anecdote, He was walking in the east side and some people rushed past him, knocking him to the floor. NO ONE said “BOO” to the idiot that knocked him down and no one helped him up.

    The next day, in the same spot a puppy ran between two cars and was killed by an innocent driver. There was almost a riot! People were yelling at the driver “How can you hurt this animal, it is a puppy! Have you no feelings!”

    Then he said he understood, There will be a time that an old man will get knocked down and no one will care, the torah says this is unacceptable! If no one will cry over the man, then kill a cow and let people cry over the cow, but one must CRY for the person, whatever it takes!

    30+ years ago this rov made this comment based on what happened in the streets of New York. What a sad commentary that this happened in the streets of Eretz Yisroel.

    So sad!

  33. Thank you, Chaim Aharon.

    I am no fan of Zionism, etc., but, as you and others said, this is not the time to rehash that.

    As others said, who knows who was in those passing cars and if they even saw it until they were passing by, and if they got out further down out of the camera’s sight?

    And, as I mentioned above, getting out and walking about in a busy intersection is not something to be taken lightly.

    May Hashem have rachmanus on this poor man’s family and friends, and may all of Klal Yisrael hear of yishuos vinechamos and bisoros tovos, ad beas goel tzedek bimheira viyameinu, Amein.

  34. I did not read any of the comments, knowing that bashing of everything but the incident is the norm, when the event takes place in ISRAEL.
    How appalling to not render “Kavod & Pikuach Nefesh” when it is on your doorsteps. I would have to assume that many called, Magan Dovid Adom, and said tehillim in a whisper for his recovery.

  35. To all the people comparing the situation to what would have happened in Mea Shearim:
    I am a volunteer ambulance driver in Jerusalem. My experiences in the chareidi neighborhoods over the past 11 years have shown that indeed, hundreds of people show up at the slightest sight of a medical situation, but not in order to assist (excluding Hatzolah volunteers). These tens to hundreds rush to the scene out of none other than curiosity and nosiness. These people have no respect for the privacy and tznius of human beings in potentially embarassing situations. Shiduchs have been ruined because of nosiness. Frum women indecently dressed get peered at through ambulance doors/windows. Tens leave their yeshivas, shuls, etc. in order to participate in this halbanat panim (=shfichut damim). I could go on and on with examples, but you get the point. This phenomemon exists amongst the chareidi crowds and on a smaller scale amongst Arab crowds.
    I’m not proposing that they wouldn’t assist in a situation like this accident, but I just wanted to put things into perspective.

  36. Oy vey! Is there no other news in all of torah/klal Yisrael than this story May we please have another story, YW Editor?

  37. As disgusting & inhumane as this is, imagine had the niftar been (al tiftach pa l’saatan) a yid with beard & payos! chariedie looking

    Then the chillul hashem would’ve been even greater, the world would say “they didn’t stop because he was chariedie !”

  38. my teacher is a non jew & he said that he keeps a kipa in his car incase he has a problem when driving he just pulls up on the side of the road puts on the kipa & in sec. he has a few yidden asking if he needs help …..what a kiddish hashem! & when I drive from n.y. to lakewood I always see yidden stoping 4 other yidden to help out on the side of the road . this is in america that yidden care about each other . but in tel aviv they all act like non jews there hole life so when this story happend they acted the same way!!!!!! the anti charadim people hate yidden more then non jewish people its a fact. & you see a lot in israel …..

  39. Sabra;

    You just reinforced my point! these people have no ‘menschlichkeit’ for the Frum or the Non Frum. Whereas, in most cases a Frum erhlicher Yid will stop and try to help ANY Jew.




  41. There is a comentetor from the chavas saas on eicho wich says “that just saying the tragaties that happend is a complaint (a kitruk on hasham chas veshulom)”. The right way is to write what was done that brought upon this tragity. In other words instead of hiding what was the cause of this and try to improve them. We should write them out to give a chance to do thshivah and not to hide it

  42. MayerFreund he is saying that you should see how YOU can to teshuva- NOT to place the blame on someone else and stay the same yourself.

  43. Torahis 1:
    Yah, thats avery nice ‘sentiment’ but its not impressive! The fact is that we are comitted to 613 mitzvos and we proudly accepted the Torah when others did not. ITS unforutnate that you are so insecure in your religion that you must resort to ‘bashing’ those who are proud of it.

    No one is showing disrespect for other yidden. The sad fact is there are yidden who are giving us all a’bad name’ and not just by disgracing our religion but by disgracing our middos and what we stand for.

    I think you might want to have a good heart to- heart talk with your Rav and maybe he can help you overcome your unfortunate lack of self esteem as a Frum Jew. Maybe then and only then you will realize how important it is for every Jew to try and practice at least the positive qualities instilled in us so that next time atragedy like this occurs, there will be more positive reaction.

    And yes, those who are Shomer Torah Umitzvosh are INDEED better than those who willingly are not! Something else you might want to discuss with your Rav. Good luck!

  44. People the likes of Joseph and Aishes Chayil have either been brainwashed

    To be brainwashed, you need a brain.

    Disagree with them at your own peril…

    Relax, it’s not that perilous. What’s the worst they can do? A couple of mixed metaphors maybe; a malapropism or two. Nothing to be afraid of.

  45. FACT IS FACT!!!!!!
    I drive a moped everyday and fell of twice,
    B”H I wasnt hurt too badly, however I was astonished how many people came running over to me and stopped there cars, YES even though it was a busy intersection in Yerushalayim. people came to help me up, to take my bike aside , to call for help, one primised to complain to the city the road was to slippery, and many others came just to make sure I was alright…..(I was a bit embaressed how many people were needed to help me)…………………

    Now both instances were inmiddle of Chareidy Yerushalayim , but as we see in TelAviv this doesnt happen.
    Although posts were about Zionism MosheFox is right this is not against Zionism but at the freye world in general. If helping another yid will slow me down a minute I just dont have the time .
    The Torah teaches us to get rid of the onochius and help someone else first as I have witnessed beutifully in our wonderful Chareidy communities!!!!

  46. QUOTE:
    As someone who works in kiruv, I can tell you first hand that some of the terrible attitudes displayed here (we are right and everyone else is wrong!)are reasons that we are losing young bochurim in droves.

    this attitude of “we are right and everyone else is wrong” just so happens to be the backbone of the Jewish people, we have lived by it, and given our lives for it, ever since Avrohom the “Ivri” who stood against the entire world.

    and when it comes to the Truth of the Mesorah, even if it stands in opposition to other Yiddim, who have unfortunately become but a shell of a Yid, filled by osmosis with attitudes of the nations, this principle is still something to adhere to.

  47. The juxtoposition of the two articles is very enlightening. Our sages teaches us that “all that transpires in this world is for the sake of the Jews.” Perhaps this statement can be expanded to include the concept that whatever Jews do (and I am referring only to Torah observant Jews) impacts on the rest of the world.

    Perhaps the attitude amongst “anshei Shlomeinu” that we need only concern ourselves with the welfare of fellow members of our own individual subgroups without any concern for K’lal Yisroel as a whole, is what infects the rest of the population with the attitude that someone else’s problems are not my concern.

    Perhaps, taking some time out from our individual endeavors to spend it trying to influence a secular Jew to do a mitzvah or learn a little Torah, might bring a renewed sensitivity to the general population.

    Perhaps if the chareidi parties would use their power and influence for the betterment of the entire Jewish nation rather than merely to broaden their individual power bases to be able to extract more money for their individual institutions, a spirit of unity and solidarity would pervade and each invidual Jew would see himself merely as a part of a greater whole and feel the pain of the “k’lal.”

    Perhaps, there is link between the posuk of “You shall not stand aside while your fellow’s blood is shed” to the posuk of “You shall love your fellow as yourself.” Only one who truly fulfills the second, will also fulfill the first.

    B’Ahavas Yisroel,

  48. People the likes of Joseph and Aishes Chayil have either been brainwashed

    To be brainwashed, you need a brain.

    What are you implying exactly?

  49. The fact is whatever was posted in favour of Frum Jews fits in with theHashkofoh that is suited to YW,,,i dont understand Torahis and Kishke’s point,,,,,

  50. ‘Disagree with them at your own peril…

    Relax, it’s not that perilous. What’s the worst they can do? A couple of mixed metaphors maybe; a malapropism or two. Nothing to be afraid of. ‘

    Well then why bother ‘calming’ him down??? Apparantly you feel just as insecure as he does! Shame! I thought ther was only one ‘complexnick’ on this board , now I see there is another,,,,,,

  51. baki Says:

    May 8th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
    MayerFreund he is saying that you should see how YOU can to teshuva- NOT to place the blame on someone else and stay the same yourself.

    Mayby you should go back to the first grade and learn how to read. the word “YOU” is not mentioned in my enire paragraph. now if you feel that you are included well this is your problem, go ahead and fix it yourself.

  52. feivel is correct. “torahis1” attitude that anything goes is something more at home with the reform than the Torah.

  53. I am sorry if I am misunderstanding what you wrote but it seems to me that you are saying this to justify the blame game being played against zionism. I did not think that you meant me personally. If I am incorrect the point of my statement is still relevant to many previous comments.

  54. nameless – You are not the only one who fails to understand torahis1 and kishke’s “point.” The real questions is, is there anyone who does understand it? It is difficult to with a Torah’dika lifestyle.

  55. To be brainwashed, you need a brain.
    What are you implying exactly? Uh, duh, I dunno. What could it possibly mean?

  56. WOW! has this thread gone south. can’t we just be sad that a Jew died AND be sad that the people didn’t/couldn’t help him without beating the daylights after of each other?!?

  57. I am commenting on this post:

    “this attitude of “we are right and everyone else is wrong” just so happens to be the backbone of the Jewish people, we have lived by it, and given our lives for it, ever since Avrohom the “Ivri” who stood against the entire world.”

    which was a (poor) response to this:

    “As someone who works in kiruv, I can tell you first hand that some of the terrible attitudes displayed here (we are right and everyone else is wrong!)are reasons that we are losing young bochurim in droves.”

    What Avrohom the “Ivri” stood for – against the entire world – was CHESED. And, yes that does include talking and acting like a mentsch to ALL PEOPLE.

    It is sad, but I believe also true, that one of the hardest things to argue with a young adult who is confused, alienated, or simply not “tuned in” to the beauty of yiddishkeit…. is when they have seen and/or experienced first-hand a lack of respect on the part of someone who is openly frum – and find that to be a sign of hypocrisy, “false” righteousness. We try to tell them not to confuse Jews with Judaism. But when you dress as a frum Jew… try to remember that your behavior can and will affect others… including those who are already battling a weak Emunah.

    People like torahis1 go out and try to rescue neshamos. The very least the rest of us can do, is make a kiddush H-Shem no matter where we are and who we think is looking… if only to make the road back easier for those struggling with the Emes and Sweetness of Torah.

    And as was said before by torahis1 remains True…
    The lack of respect for other yidden (and Goyim) has no Torah basis b’chlal. All it does is serve to alienate other Yidden. Acting with respect in no way implies agreement with, or sanction of anti-Torah behavior. On the contrary, it a basic part of Torahdik behavior.

  58. Uh, duh, I dunno. What could it possibly mean?

    Not much really if its coming from you! Apparantly their views seem to fit into the Hashkofoh that Yeshiva World would like to reflect, yours and torhas’ does not!!

  59. ‘Acting with respect in no way implies agreement with, or sanction of anti-Torah behavior. On the contrary, it a basic part of Torahdik behavior.’

    Thats very well said! In addition to that, its very disturbing to hear someone involved in Kiruv criticize the attitude of the Frum based on the dismay with regard to the innaction our fellow Jews in this particular case of the motorcyclist! The point most wanted to make was that the basic idea of CHESED which is one of the foundations this world stands for, was not even exemplified as it should have been!

  60. baki Says:

    May 8th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
    I am sorry if I am misunderstanding what you wrote but it seems to me that you are saying this to justify the blame game being played against zionism. I did not think that you meant me personally. If I am incorrect the point of my statement is still relevant to many previous comments


    with respect:

    Well just like you don’t want to see anything blamed on zionism and you accuse those that do this. Since zionism is almost all over the country of isreal, why don’t you try to understand those jewes that do blame zionism for things that happen in isreal but blame it on evrything else?

  61. Someone blogged before something about the Nazis. Yes, Nazis, Y”SH, had societies for the prevention to the cruelty to animals but I don’t have to say what they did to the Jews.

  62. I have no problem with things being blamed on zionism as there is plenty to blame on them. My point is that our job is not to blame others and deflect it from ourselves but to look for ways that we can improve. This applies no matter who or what is the subject of the blame. I can’t imagine that you disagree with me about this, and can only attribute this to a misunderstanding of what I wrote. From previous comments of mine it is quite apparent that I an not offended at all by criticism of zionism.

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