Rav Eliyashiv: No Shiva For Brother Of Rav Don Segal

(Sunday, September 30th, 2007)

segal cover.jpgYisroel Segal – the brother of the Mashgiach Rav Don Segal Shlita was Niftar on the first day of Sukkos at the age of 68. Yisroel Segal was a journalist in the Israeli media for many years, and was well known throughout Eretz Yisroel as being extremely anti-Frum. He used every opportunity to attack Frum people – both, in the media and in books which he authored. Until the age of 20 he had learned in Ponavez Yeshiva. After learning of the passing of his brother, the Mashgiach Shlita went to Maran Hagoen Rav Eliyashiv Shlita – who Paskened that no Shiva should be observed since he was a “Shana Upirush”. “לא לשבת שבעה על אחיך שנפטר ישראל עקב היות שנה ופירש”


45 Comments

  1. nameless says:

    Why should it cause him any discomfort? Its public knowledge that he was anti frum and if Rav Elyashiv made a psak, I am sure he considered all the consequences.

    Since the beggining of time the biggest Tzadikim were affiliated with Rishoim one way or another.

    Yaakov-Esav, Yitzchok-Yishmael etc…..

  2. emes hu achron says:

    OK, we have a psak. Is it at all possible that the story, once made public, will educate people as to the halacha, and cause some consolation, or even provide succor to Rabbi Dan Segal?

  3. beitar says:

    I did not know this and wish I still didn’t. This “news” is not “mat’im” for yeshiva wold.
    P.S. – I took my kids to the “candy Succah” today – it doesn’t exist!

  4. YaakovKuperman says:

    Publicizing Rav Segal’s name in relation to this is very seriously lashon hara… you guys should take this down…

  5. nameless says:

    “4,

    “……will educate people as to the halacha, and cause some consolation……..’

    Didnt Rav Eliyashiv say ‘no’ to shiva? Am I missing somthing here? I mean , I feel for Rav Segal, but doesnt “daas Torah’ rule?

  6. tzoorba says:

    YaakovKuperman,

    In what way is this maaseh of Tzadikim lashon hara? I think it is a kiddush Hashem.

  7. emes hu achron says:

    I for one have learn’t something here, now I know that you don’t sit shiva for a “Shana Upirush”.
    “לא לשבת שבעה על אחיך שנפטר ישראל עקב היות שנה ופירש” I consider this a HUGE Kiddush Hashem!!!!!!

  8. Yidel says:

    Is mentioning Eisev as Yaakov’s brother or Yishmael as Yitzchok’s brother loshon hora?

    It teaches us all…

  9. Tzadik in Peltz says:

    Is what he did worse than Chillul shabbos ? Chayav skela ? Is what he did a chiyuv sekila ? Dont people sit shiva for machillei Shabbos ?

  10. dovix85 says:

    Why wasn`t anything written about an interview he gave after he had come out of a coma of two months at which he spoke about having seen his father in the Next World and saying that this world is not the only one. That the World to Come is the real one. And that he was terribly sorry for all the years he wasted denying the presence of God! He made tshuva at the end! Why wasn`t this written about!!??

  11. NeveAliza says:

    Who ran to give this story to the public media? This was a private psak given from one Gadol to another. What was their purpose in going public?

    Rav Eliyashiv doesn’t read the Israeli journals or watch TV, so what did he base his knowledge of the Niftar on? Only the description of the Mashgiach Rav Don Segal Shlita?

    Something here isn’t adding up.

  12. lkwdfellow says:

    I once heard – don’t remember from whom – that he was heard to say “im Charedi – k’Dan achi” – so although he was anti-Charedi, I guess he still respected Rav Dan.

    Personally, I think that this should not be posted, but, I am not a Posek.

  13. machmoud says:

    i heard (from an unreliable source) that when he was in ponevehz he was able to learn for long stretches of time without a break. & once he & harav hagaon r’ Yigal Rosen Shlita rosh yeshivas ohr yisroel-petach tikvah had a competition who could learn for longer & R’ Yigal won & that was when he stopped learning. in recent years the deceased used to say that he doesn’t mind becoming frum, if R’ yigal stops being rosh hayeshiva. but R’ Yigal held, with the hascomah of contempary poskim that he has no chiyuv to renounce his job so that the remote possibility of yisrael becoming frum on the cheshbon of bittul torah of the bochurim.

  14. Imanonov says:

    His brother used to work (was the editor?) of a newspaper called “Olam Hazeh”. Already some 30 plus years ago it was a common saying in EY: “R’ Dan’s brother is Olam hazeh, R’ Dan himself (Lehavdil bein chaim lechaim) has olam Habo”!

  15. machmoud says:

    beitar- the succah was probably finished by neo-nazis in the middle of yom tov! did you look on the floor for sticks & wrappers

  16. Oncefrum says:

    Do you think such a person really cares if the people he despised sit shivah, an inherently religious custom?

  17. avreimi says:

    Who says Rav Don Segal Shlita asked this sheyla? Who deemed it so important to publicize it? Unfortunately many of the things said in Rav Eliashiv’s name are things he likely knows nothing about.

  18. Joseph says:

    Oncefrum, most certainly. It is a potch in his face. And now that he is in the Oilem Haemes, he certainly feels the loss.

  19. liddleyiddle says:

    Does anybody understand why Rav Elyashiv paskened this way?

  20. YaakovKuperman says:

    It’s not lashon hara on the self-hating Jew, it’s lashon hara on the prominent member of the Jewish community who’s relationship to a quite negative person is now being publicized. This is unfortunately quite potentially damaging for his reputation and also it may be something he’s sensitive about.

  21. stan the man says:

    lalalalalalal
    Thought there is no shiva for one who dies on succos or anyother yomtov.

  22. Relative to Rav Don says:

    PLEASE.
    To all you people who have no clue what the TRUE story is – just listen.

    Not only did Rav Don Segal be mifarsem this story – he made a SEUDAH to celebrate this joyous occasion.

    Go learn the Rambam, people.

    This man was rasha merusha!

    Mazal Tov!

  23. shem rishoyim yirkav!! says:

    to better explain what a rasha he was, he purpously died on yom tov as to not cause reason for a second celebration.

  24. jO jO says:

    lalalalalal
    There is no shiva after yom tov……lalalalalal

    ouch.

  25. smithers shmithers says:

    Whats the question why Rav Eliyashiv paskened this way!!

    It is a clear halacha in the Rambam – and this lowlife clearly fit the criteria.

  26. sifsei chachamim says:

    dose this include not saying kaddish? (which is “mistaber” if you dont sit shivah you dont say kadish.)
    if yes this is a wrong psak because of the famous story of rabbi akiva in the bais hakvoros when he saw a dead man (a rasha) carring wood which thay would then burn him in and the niftar told him he can’t go in to gan eden because his son was not saying kaddish for him.

  27. Yidel says:

    Yidden, Think first please. Obviously if YW posted this story, it has the full backing and support of Daas Torah — and namely…………………..

    Edited by Site Moderation Panel. :)

  28. baki says:

    sfas sheker first you make an assumption about what is included in the psak and them go on to call it a wrong psak. There is nothing mentioned here about kaddish. Even if there was I would go with his psak over your “raya” any time. Did you put even an ounce of thought before having the chutzpa to call it wrong? There are different levels of reshoim, and maybe the son was right anyways. Also, maybe a son is different.

  29. LmaasehGeredt says:

    Lma’aseh Yaakov Avinu requested that his name not be mentioned in association with the ma’asa of Zimri and of Korach.

    Could the psak of Rav Elyashiv not have been conveyed to the public without mention of any relation to the Tzaddik?

  30. skazm says:

    I don’t see why just because one member of the family was a rasha that it reflects badly on the brother who worked on himself and became a talmid chacham

    conversely when one is a real rasha, it’s only because he had the capability to be a real tzaddik and his choices were what made him a rasha, not the choices of his brother

    maybe people shouldn’t be automatically judging people based on their family members – a disease quite prevalent in ‘the yeshiva world’

    one vote for not loshon hara

  31. liddleyiddle says:

    Shem Rishoyim Yirkav: I just want to clarify. I’ve learned the whole Rambam. My question was merely a test. I was trying to find out if anyone would suspect me of being anything less than well-versed in terms of these halachos. So, while this story may not be loshon hora, we have clear evidence that we all need to work on dan l’kaf z’chus.

  32. nameless says:

    28,29

    The psak is one thing, but isnt there an inyen of NOT rejoicing at the death of a rosho ESPECIALLY if he was A Jew?

  33. yona says:

    How do we know that he didnt do teshuva right before he died?

  34. midwesterner says:

    NAMELESS: UVA’AVOD RESHAIM RINA!

  35. nameless says:

    Midwesterner; I am aware of that but the question is does it apply to a Jew as well, since it says ‘Ad Yom Mosoh Tichako Lo …..’

    There was a writer by the name of Shulem Asch who was an apikores all his life and before he died he requested that he wants to be buried in his tallis!

  36. nameless says:

    ps.we dont know whether or not he had last minute thoughts of teshuva or not…

  37. frumblogger says:

    נטש את הדת בגיל 20

    סגל, בן למשפחה ירושלמית חרדית ותלמיד ישיבת פוניבז’ בבני ברק, נטש בגיל 20 את הדת. משפחתו לא סלחה לו ואף ישבה עליו שבעה. את החרם הוביל אחיו, הרב דן סגל, מהדמויות הבולטות בעולם החרדי. כשאביו האהוב מת – גורש ישראל מהלוויה.

  38. mikedrezz says:

    #38, I am sure Rav Eliyashav put that in to the equation.

  39. midwesterner says:

    Ad yom moso, fine. But beyond as well? If HKB”H was “ad yom moso tichake lo”, but as the paytan (Rabbeinu Amnon in Unesane Tokef) continues, “Im yashuv, miyad tekablo” and none was forthcoming, does that still apply?

    My only reservation is that someone above mentioned that perhaps he did have hirhurei teshuva as indicated in comment #13 above.

  40. RavHamachshir says:

    If the halacha states that one does not sit shiva for a rasha, apikores, etc.(whichever term it used) that was obviously stated even tough he may have done teshuva with out our knowing it. while his teshuva will be accepted by hashem, hilchos shiva can only be based on what we know

  41. torah in ch says:

    In response to comment 28
    A chaver of mine pointed to a Gemora, in Chagiga, Daf Tes Vuv, Umud Bais, quoted by Reb Itzelah in his monumental work Kochvei Or.

    The Gemorah says that when Reb Meir died he caused smoke to rise up from Acher’s grave, thus allowing Acher the ability to get Gehenim, in order for him to ultimately get his Gan Aiden. When Reb yochonan died, approximately 150 years later, as Reb Itzeleh calculates, he caused the smoke to extinguish from acher’s grave, taking acher out of Gehenim and into Gan Eden.

    My friend pointed out, that if Reb Meir and Reb Yochonan tried so hard to get Acher into Gan Aiden, it would seem that they would not be making a party for Yisroel Segal’s death.

    While it “may” be true that the Posek Hador Reb Elyashuv Shlita made a Psak in regard to Shiva, that has nothing to do with not being deeply pained about a Tzarah of any member of Klal Yisroel.

    I pesonaly do not In response to comment 28
    A chaver of mine pointed to a Gemora, in Chagiga, Daf Tes Vuv, Umud Bais, quoted by Reb Itzelah in his monumental work Kochvei Or.

    The Gemorah says that when Reb Meir died he caused smoke to rise up from Acher’s grave, thus allowing Acher the ability to get Gehenim, in order for him to ultimately get his Gan Aiden. When Reb yochonan died, approximately 150 years later, as Reb Itzeleh calculates, he caused the smoke to extinguish from acher’s grave, taking acher out of Gehenim and into Gan Eden.

    My friend pointed out that if this Reb Meir and Reb Yochonan tried so hard to get Acher into Gan Aiden, they would not make a party for Yisroel Seigel’s death.

    While it “may” be true that the Posek Hador Reb Elyushuv Shlita made a Psak in regard to Shiva that has nothing to do with not being deeply pained about a Tzarah of any member of Klal Yisroel.

    bIn response to comment 28
    A chaver of mine pointed to a Gemora, in Chagiga, Daf Tes Vuv, Umud Bais, quoted by Reb Itzelah in his monumental work Kochvei Or.

    The Gemorah says that when Reb Meir died he caused smoke to rise up from Acher’s grave, thus allowing Acher the ability to get Gehenim, in order for him to ultimately get his Gan Aiden. When Reb yochonan died, approximately 150 years later, as Reb Itzeleh calculates, he caused the smoke to extinguish from acher’s grave, taking acher out of Gehenim and into Gan Eden.

    My friend pointed out that if this Reb Meir and Reb Yochonan tried so hard to get Acher into Gan Aiden, they would not make a party for Yisroel Seigel’s death.

    While it “may” be true that the Posek Hador Reb Elyushuv Shlita made a Psak in regard to Shiva that has nothing to do with not being deeply pained about a Tzarah of any member of Klal Yisroel.

    I pesonaly do not believe that Hagon V’hatzadik
    Harav Don Segal is making any parties for his brother’s death.

  42. midwesterner says:

    Number 46: The reason the tanoim went so far out of their way to save Elisha Ben Avuya (Acher) is in the merit of the Torah that he taught. Not applicable here.
    And maybe the Editor can fix up his post. The same 3 paragraphs are repeated 3 times. I’m sure it was due to a technical glitch, similar to the one at Nassau Coliseum.

  43. al titosh says:

    Number 46: All they did was save acher from
    Gehinnom. In this case there is cause for rejoicing that he is not around to make more trouble for Yidden.

  44. torah in ch says:

    As my comment in 46 was repeated 3 times please post as new

    In response to comment 28
    A chaver of mine pointed to a Gemora, in Chagiga, Daf Tes Vuv, Umud Bais, quoted by Reb Itzelah in his monumental work Kochvei Or.

    The Gemorah says that when Reb Meir died he caused smoke to rise up from Acher’s grave, thus allowing Acher the ability to get Gehenim, in order for him to ultimately get his Gan Aiden. When Reb yochonan died, approximately 150 years later, as Reb Itzeleh calculates, he caused the smoke to extinguish from acher’s grave, taking acher out of Gehenim and into Gan Eden.

    My friend pointed out, that if Reb Meir and Reb Yochonan tried so hard to get Acher into Gan Aiden, it would seem that they would not be making a party for Yisroel Segal’s death.

    While it “may” be true that the Posek Hador Reb Elyashuv Shlita made a Psak in regard to Shiva, that has nothing to do with not being deeply pained about a Tzarah of any member of Klal Yisroel

    I pesonaly do not believe that Hagon V’hatzadik
    Harav Don Segal is making any parties for his brother’s death.

  45. brumfin says:

    I think comment number 49 by “torah in ch” hit’s the nail on the head and closes the coffin on this issue. Just not sure why you mentioned the Kochvei Or. Reb Itelah was pointing out an incredible zach from the Gemorah, how Gevaldig Olam Habah is, that it was worth Davening for Acheir to go to gehinom for a minimum of 140 years to eventually be able to go to Gan Eidan.
    Your excellent point can be seen from the Gemorah alone. I assume you brought the kochvei or to credit the one who showed you the gemorah, or lihagdil Torah ulihadirah. A gitten Moed.

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