79 Responses

1. Can we stop calling every single problem or difficulty a “crisis”. Infertility is a medical problem that is not any more common now than before, and thankfully there are more things that can be done now than in the past.

2. You are so right . people have to remember that coupels who arent yet blessed with children are in pain when ever there is a kiddish in shul or friends are speaking about children the whole time. people should never judge a person as one never knows whats coming ahead and one may need support from other people . so therfor act with respect in front of outher people as they may be smilling on the outside but crying on the insde

3. Your comments are important and I hope people realize their stares and thoughts are sometimes the whole cause of your pain. Another undiscussed topic in the community is secondary infertility- when you have 1 or more kids and then begin experiencing problems, miscarriage, etc. It is unusual and much less obvious but it exists… That is something I went through- people asking over and over how old your youngest child is, and you know what they’re thinking. There are many untactful people out there and when you are in pain, you are very sensitive to that. I learned that the main cause of all this, is that most people do not appreciate the neis of a shidduch, a baby, things being “normal” are just that to them. You already have gained that revelation that these are nissim. I”H you should be blessed with children in the near future, and go on to help other girls who come to you for help in this matter so they don’t feel alone.

4. there is a lot to say on this inyan…

5. I hope the author has a nechama soon and Hashem sends them bracha.

   It is truly terrible that people are so nosy, but it seems to be human nature. It takes self-control to rise above that nosy nature-something everyone should try to learn.

   I have heard such painful stories of people going through this ordeal and cruel and heartless things that people say to them or about them. This is not a choice not to have a baby! Have some sympathy not criticism!

   I have a friend who has two children but cannot have children now because of illness. She has enough pain and longing with looking at everyone around her having more children. Imagine the pain of people who do not have children at all?!

   It is true what the author says that going through a difficult ordeal brings a couple closer- this is a precious valuable benefit that should give them chizuk. A strong marriage is worth so much!

   May Hashem hear all the cries of childless people and send them zera shel kaima!

6. Thank you very much for posting this! This is so true, every word that you wrote. I know, because I am experiencing something very similar, and the look of “why aren’t you pregnant yet?” really irkes me, not because I’m not pregnant yet, but because people can be so insensitive with their stares and looks. It means more, sometimes, than the actual question. By the way, it’s none of anyone else’s business if a couple is able to concieve easily or not, not even the couple’s parents. Why has the frum/chariedi community become so focused on everyone else’s issues and not their own?
   Thank you again for the well written, more importantly, desperately needed letter.

7. My dear friend
   I feel along with your pain, I have 2 children b”h 10 & 13, & were ever I go people look on me with pity like I am the big rachmunis of town, but the pity is on them have you not acknowledge that children are a present from hashem, how can you be sad or mad that you only have one or 2 when there are people out there waiting for 1, & to you my friend i would like to say if you are losing friends it is a Simon they were never your friend, a friend is one who is always there for you in what ever situation, go look for different friends more wiser more open minded there is a whole world out there, hashem is going to help for sure “yeshuas hashem kiheref eyn”, go out there get a life there are so much children that are here already on this world who there parents have no time for them they are waiting for some one to give them a little bit attention be there for them, do some chesed you will be surprised how happy this will make you, and how much new real friends you will iy”h make, don’t worry about no body enjoy your marriage enjoy life and hashem will be with you. amen

8. Excellent article. So true. It bothers me so much when friends ask “so how are you doing? What’s new?” as if i don’t get what they want me to tell them. Please, let me live. B”h everything is great and i think these beginning years are the most beautiful time to forge a true connection with your spouse. Enjoy them, all too soon iy”h you won’t be able to sleep a normal nights sleep.

9. The great R Kalman Krohn said last year in a schmooze that you see how frum sensitivities took a plunge from the fact that INFERTILITY is spoken about without any boosha. Rabboisai, all we ask for is a little tznius. There’s no reason any child or teen should hear or read about this. IT’S NOT SOMETHING FOR A PUBLIC FORUM.

10. #10: Crawl back under your rock. Infertility is no less a medical issue than blindness or being deaf, and is compounded by the overbearing pain accompanied by the inability to bear or father a child. If anything, the notion that is an issue that must be swept under the rug and not discussed publicly leads to ignorance that in turn fails to engender efforts to educate and otherwise assist those facing this tremendous hardship. Public discussion of this matter in a sensitive and appropriate manner can benefit those in need, both by making available necessary information and by removing the painful stigma that is often attached to fertility issues.

11. I agree very much with the author. There is a lot of pressure on couples nowadays, whether self imposed or imposed on them by family & friends and sometimes that even exacerbates the problem further. Let’s remember that Children are a gift from Hashem and lets ignore those around us and keep davening for yeshuos for all of klal yisrael b’karov! amen!

    p.s. there is an excellent resource for anyone who finds themselves in need of advice for fertility issues: atime.org –Its a very friendly forum where you can get chizuk, help, and medical advice.

    B’Hatzlacha

12. There are no words to express how my heart goes out to you, reading your letter brings tears to my eyes. May you and your husband find complete nechama b’shaah tova!
    (btw Gabay 2 has a song on his new CD called THE LETTER-listen to it.)

13. There is nothing untznius about yearning for a child. She is not going into detail about the dynamics of conceiving the child. Have you ever read the navi where we read about Chanah yearning for a child??? Should we not read that?

14. I just wanted to add that I B”H had my first child nine months after I got married and my second 11 months after that. My husband and I are very happily married. Many of my sisters and sisters in law also had they’re children right away and many quickly after. What I find insensitive (opposite extreme) is that people say “Wow you’re kids are so close together, what are you doing? How are you managing? It’s NOT normal!” And such comments like that. Who do you think you are to say such a thing? We are VERY happily married, we love our children, and run very fuctioning homes. The way we run our lives is OUR business and not yours! For some odd reasons these topics have become open discussions! Where is the tznius in this?! Worry about you own lives, marriages, and children and stop butting into everyone elses lives!

15. BMG
    I disagree- the only reason we have organizations like Bonai Olam (and others) who help people who do not/ cannot have kids is because this topic is publicized.
    Do you think anyone would give money if they didnt know how big of a problem this is?
    and by the way, what are your kids doing on the internet?

16. This is such a true thing… don’t worry it’s just 2 years after your wedding, i know someone that only had children 5 years after she got maried, she has 13 children now… all naturally!!
    Don’t worry, yeshuas hashem keheref ayin!! Al Tisyaeisy!!

17. Chabad chasidim have a VERY strict minhag in which a pregnancy is not discussed AT ALL with ANYONE other than with close relatives until the fifth month of the pregnancy. And this applies to everyone who is aware of the pregnancy, i.e. husbands, parents, & in-laws. I think many of the interpersonal problems and pesky questions discussed in this article will be solved if the entire frum world takes on this beautiful practice. May all of Klal Yisroel’s tefillohs for children and shidduchim only be answered immediately!

18. To #10, Anyone that is old enough to be on the computer, on the internet, reading yeshivaworld.com, is old enough to read about being sensitive to people around them that may be going through the same things. There is nothing wrong with making people aware how hurtful they can be. I don’t see anything in this well-written letter that can be a problem for (hopefully) mature adults to read. If a young child is reading this, it is their parents problem that their child CAN read this…

19. Daven for others who are unable to conceive.this will b’ezras hashem bring you a great yeshua.

20. bmgcoffeeroom:

    Infertility is simply the inability of a couple to have a child. The frum community has been speaking about infertility every since the frum community had the Chumash. Children and teens have heard or read about infertility ever since they heard or read Chumash.

21. bmgcoffeeroom, with all due respect, i do not see why it is untzniusdik to talk about infertility. doesn’t the Torah itself mention women who did not have children? this reminds me of something else. why do frum newspapers not want to mention female names? (e.g., the kallah is the daughter of Rabbi Y and the chosson is the son of Rabbi X.) don’t the choson and kallah have mothers?? again, the Torah itself does not seem to have a problem mentioning names such as Rivka, Rochel, Sara, Leah, etc.
    BTW, i would recommend the following book for any couple experiencing miscarriages: To Full Term – a Mother’s Triumph Over Miscarriage by Darci Klein, published by the Penguin Group. She offers practical and necessary medical advice that she learned through her own personal experiences.

22. Last I checked there were huge centerfold ads for the Bonei Olam dinner in ze heimishe papers, as well as Chineese Auctions for ATIME. Get lots of mailings too. How do you think we found out about these organizations? BY DISCUSSION! Both are in full view of everyone. Sorry, I would not call this a discussion at a shmorg.

    If you have not experienced the pain of infertility, and BECAUSE of the “boosha” are unable to discuss it in public, this is a FINE location to do so. You are welcome not to look at this posting.

23. My heart goes out for you i symphathise with your pain.I will kepp you in mind in my tefillos.However all this negative talk about klal yisroel really irks me while its true people say insesitive things nobody really means to hurt anybody, im sure the same person who you might think is staring at you might have given a nice check to bonei oilam.or is just davening to hashem that you should have a yeshua.so lets be dan lkaf zchus all of our brothers and sisters and have a ayin tov on Klal yisroel Mi kamcho Yisroel and then maybe moshiach will come a little quicker

24. BMG coffee room – You dont have any clue what youre talking about.
    I am sure that you misunderstood the Rabbis words. Today, due to all the talk about infertility lo aleinu, Baruch Hashem funds are being raised to help our fellow bnei yisrael to have children.
    No one here is talking about infertility without sensitivity. Someone who obviously needs help from hashem (as we all do) wrote a letter telling people to have MORE sensitivity towards the issue. And except for comment #1 people seem to understand the point and have taken it well. Go daven for people who havent had children yet instead of lecturing grown adults on how to be sensitive and what or what not to say in public.

25. The word YENTA was invented long before most of us were born! It’s an OLD phenomenon that we live with, and will continue to live with in EVERY aspect in life. YENTAS are YENTAS in EVERY issue, infertility just happens to be one of them.

26. I think the fact that it is discussed today can be of great help to those who are going through it (I went through it before), because it helps you know that you are not suffering alone. Online forums and organizations like ATime are very helpful to those suffering from it.

27. bmgcoffeeroom:
    “There’s no reason any child or teen should hear or read about this”
    Did you forget where you are right now? on the internet!!!!!!
    Also, did you ever hear of and learn about Sarah, Rivka, Rochel and Channa?

28. ““so, how’s’ this and that person doing, what are they up to?” Who cares? Why are you so interested?”

    Um… It’s called being friendly and showing concern for someone. If everyone would ignore you, you would say “and they are too embarrassed of me to look me in the eye”

    So as my dear father says to me (I am single) “when everyone says to you Iy”h by you, say amen with all your heart because they are giving you a bracha!” I think everyone has to stop being so super sensitive. The bottom line is: If you are comfortable with yourself, you won’t seek others approval.

29. Infertility is a medical issue and to call it a “crisis” is ridiculous. But, unlike other medical issues, the nature of Infertility – the lack of children – makes those who are going through it fairly obvious to everyone around them sooner or later, creating social issues and discomfort for those who were not yet zoche to have children.

    The problem with Infertility, however, is that it also is of a nature that impacts the most private areas of life. But, as long as it is publicized in a careful and discreet (tznius) manner, there is no reason, R’ Krohn’s comments notwithstanding, to NOT publicize the issue; to NOT educate the public about being careful what to say to whom.

30. bmgcoffeeroom: I agree with you 100%. People have lost a certain sensitivity to tznius. And boosha as well.

31. I think #10 that either your very naive or plain insensitive.

32. I feel your pain
    here is some advice:
    make sure your shadchan was paid
    make sure your mezuzos are kosher
    give tzedaka to fertility organization

    and then:

    Take something upon yourself, a special mitzvah that you take on privately just between you and Hashem, could be something with Tznius, or something with shabbos, one small mitzvah that you take and keep, has to be something that you can really stick to, not something that will be forgotten after a few weeks. if you want ideas i have a few but don’t want to put them on this public forum.

    and of course keep davening.
    hatzlachah and just keep your head high

33. We have one big crisis and that is that we are still in גלות. If we try and focus on this crisis and fix it, it might solve all the other ones. May we be זוכה to see this terrible גלות end very soon.

34. I think BMG’s point was just to say that the level in tznius in this world has been brought down. He is 100% right about that. We all must realize that tznius is not just in the way we dress. but in the way we act, and the things we apeak about too. Personaly i don’t think putting something on Yeshiva World about the topic of infertility is untznius. It’s when people discuss these things around the table and in front of children that it’s not tznius and we all must be more careful with the things we say. The Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation and the tznius signs in dressing rooms are very nice; but in which aspect of our life are they being implemented? Are we focusing on the right things?

35. Kol hakavod to this woman for being so open about her ordeal. If you are reading this, may you have a yeshua bkarov!
    As for the discussion of this. I think the frum jewish world has to stop trying to be so naive to real problems that are going on in society. People try to sweep divorce, abuse, drugs, psychiatic issues etc. “under the rug” becuase frum people arent suppose to have these kind of problems. And you think not discussing it will just make it all disappear? Its a shame. Thats why unfortiontly theres been a yeridah in todays generation becuase people are avoiding discussing these issues. You may think it keeps kedusha and tznius when unfortionetly it only lets the problems continue to exisit because there NOT being adressed!

36. #10 You and your silly ideas are contrary to Torah. “Mee sheayn lo bonim chashuv k’mais.” “Vayetar Yitzchok linochach ishto.” Maybe you aught to “plug away” in Torah and stop “blogging away.”

37. We have two serious problems here, and neither one has to do with shidduchim, fertility, or how much people spend on simchas.

    1)People mishing in other people’s lives. Look down into your sefer or up to Shomayim, not over the fence to see what your neighbors are doing.

    2)People worrying about what other people think of their lives. Your cheilek is your cheilek, to deal with as best you can, and no one else’s looks or comments are important.

    I’m not trying to diminish the great amount of chesed that we can do for each other, but on a whole lot if personal issues, the message I see repeated here over and over again, is unless you are asked for your opinion or assistance, nose out!

38. #1 – The author called it a crisis as a way of pointing out that life after the “shidduch crisis” isn’t always smooth sailing. The difference between infertility and other medical issues is that to someone going through this it consumes every aspect of the couples lives. While everyone around them is worried about schools, family vacations and family simchas, a couple experiencing infertility can be consumed by this 24 hours a day for days, weeks, months and years on end. To be so quick to dismiss it shows a lack of sensitivity that is part of what makes infertility so tough to deal with in the first place.

39. I understand this letter completely. I have been married for 2 1/4 years and really dont feel that it would feel so long if not for other ppl. my friends and family who treat my husband and myself normally really are the best. It is those who make as if we have a real problem by avoiding kid issues and asking pokey questions, like which Dr do you go to “generally”, how many times have you been kevater, Is it hard ( y should it be hard, im just settling down, and yes it can be hard but we try to keep upbeat and nowdays there is so much that can be done and many times it is just a small problem)etc who make it hard and make us feel that maybe there is something really wrong. Please consider feelings and know that we wanna be happy and lead a normal life and tell u about our events etc and we are very happy to join you in your simchos and hear about your babies, as long as ur normal about it.
    May we only hear of simchos.

40. bmg coffee room and queen of persia(#34):a perfect shidduch. may you have many years of happiness and many children(which we wont talk about)together.unbelievable how someones in pain and all you can do is criticize what theyre doing.

41. So they’re looking at you. And thinking. Get over it.

    You got into XYZ Seminary? Who did you know? You didn’t get into Seminary? I wonder what’s wrong with you. You got the job in the Bais Yaakov-Who did you know? You didn’t get the job-Obviously you’re not one of the better talmidos. Oh, you’re getting married so young-How are you going to support yourself? You had to marry the first guy/girl? Were things so bad at home? Got married so late-This is what you were waiting for? No kids? What are you waiting for? How did you get a heter? Another kid?? How many kids do you have already? Who’s going to pay the tuition? Don’t you think its enough already? When are you going to stop driving that wreck of a car? Its a busha!! Did you need to get a new car? You’re not paying full tuition but you go to a bungalow? Or extended your house? You are going to a Pesach hotel when I can’t pay my tuition?

    The source of all of this is loshon horah and not being dan l’kaf zchus. That includes assuming everyone is looking at you with pitying eyes.

    May all our tefilos be answered l’tovah

42. I think part of the problem is that people dont realize there is a certain tznius issue involved in this subject. We have become too “used to” people having babies within a year after the chasuna that if HKBH deems it necessary for it to take longer, people start getting worried. These are issues that need to stay between the husband & wife as well as their Rov, NOT TO ANYONE ELSE.

43. Thank you for having the courage to speak up. People can argue whether infertility is a community crisis or not, but it is hard to not feel it as a personal crisis. Even if people don’t add to our sensitivities, how can we not want children? May Hashem bless you with the strength to accept His will whatever it is; and may that include children soon!!

    I think you remind us that we as a community need Hashem’s help in being kinder to each other no matter what our path’s are. Many of us have struggled to learn & live by the laws against Loshon Hara, baruch Hashem. But there is also a whole other area of learning that I am less aware of people studying – to NOT speak hurtful words. And like the laws about Lashon Hara, these laws also apply to gestures, expressions, hints. AND require thinking and planning ahead about how to act appropriately in the inevitable awkward situations of life. And how to apologize for our mistakes without making them worse.

    I unfortunately know these pains well, because we were never able to have children. (yes, there could be a nes, please) But I have accepted Hashem’s apparent decision, and seen that there were many other beautiful Mitzvot I was able to do, which would never have been possible if I had family responsibilities. And because not having children is part of who I am, women who are having infertility problems have felt they could confide in me. I hope I helped them; but they helped me tremendously.

    I have learned we can assume NOTHING. Many families that “LOOK” easy were NOT easy; miscarriages are usually too painful to discuss & medical intervention is a blessing to be tried if appropriate but nothing in life is simple. Maybe you know someone whose husband “should” be making a good living but seems, uh, not so generous?? maybe there is illness, has v’shalom, in the family, or maybe she is paying a fortunate for the blessing of each and every child.

    I believe every neshama who comes here is a gift & a nes. When it arrives, and later, each day, that human being has grows up to be our friend or our neighbor.

    And I am reminded to renew my efforts to mind both my words AND my eyes, in how I treat all these nisim. I hope I have not hurt anyone with these words. This IS a sensitive matter, but I believe it needs to be addressed.

44. #37 {Shnuchel): Right on!

45. (I agree with those that feel this is not the place for such a forum)
    However, a great forum for this issue is atime.org There is lots of useful info, chizuk from others who are there or have been there and Boruch Hashem have seen a Yeshua already and a great place to be heard and empathized by the “experience”.
    May Hashem help us all and we should be zoche to Zara Chaya Vkayama and the Biyas Goel Tzedek soon!!!

46. #20 though you obviously mean well, as someone who has experienced infertility I can tell you that it hurts to hear “don’t worry”, unless the person is a navi who can tell me with absolute certaintly that I too will B”EH have 13 children.

    Other than that, it does nothing to validate the feelings of the person who has very valid fears – for despite major technological breakthrus in the medical world today, unfortunately not every couple can be helped.

    If there is a couple in your life that is suffering from infertility, the best you can do for them is listen, do not offer advice, do not tell them which segulos you can suggest (do them yourself on their behalf if you wish), do be supportive and friendly and not nosy, and when they do need advice, direct them to ATIME and Bonei Olam.

    To the writer of this letter – you and all my sisters like you are always in my tefillos. May Hashem send you your personal yeshua speedily.

47. To the letter writer. I hope you know that the tefilos of all well meaning yidden are with you.
    By the way, here’s an approach to handling people who ask stupid questions. I remember seeing this written by Dear Abby some years back. When they ask vauge questions, just play stupid. If they actually come out and ask a direct question about your fertility status, just look them in the eye and respond “Why would you ask such a personal question”?

    To BMGCOFFEROOM I have to assume one of two possibilities.

    1) I could be dan l’kaf zchus, that you are one of those bloggers who gets kicks out of saying ridiculous things as a way of parodying what you ackowledge is yeshivish stupidity. In this case I would simply say that there are some subjects too sensitive for such parody.

    2) You actually ARE one of those yeshivishe guys who is actually that stupid. Hmmm. B-M-G Coffe Room. Maybe you should spend more time in the BM and less time in the coffee room…or on the internet.

48. It goes without saying that people need to daven, work on their ruchnius and make hishtadlus in bringing a yeshuah.
    There is another point here, esp. in view of the writer who said people look at her as a rachmanus because she has two children, 10 and 13 (may she see much nachas.)
    Everyone has a particular tafkid in life and not everyone’s is to have 6,8,10 kids or more. Rav Miller, zt”l, said that when a certain Gadol who never had children was niftar his feelings were that Hashem wanted this Gadol to occupy himself with Torah and spreading Torah without distractions, and that may why he wasn’t zocheh to children.
    You may ask, but there were tzaddikim who accomplished both. I don’t know the answer to that but these thoughts do give some perspective to the issue, as well as hopefully some comfort to those who are not zocheh to large families and understanding those who unfairly judge others.
    And those who do merit many children, ka”h, should all the more be makir tov to Hashem and not take these gifts for granted.

49. i am in the “parsha ” im almost married three years

    #15 gabays new tape that song shold not have been on his new tape the song is nice but well i uess i cant shmooze about the tape with other people. and besides its a very touchy subject.

    #20 thnk you for your input its just what i wanted to hear to go thru pain for five years.

    #36 you feel our pain, how could you, unless your also in the “parsha”. and thanks for your advice THATS NOT WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR.

    for all the BMG’s last pesach’s chavrusa tumal, i was going thru a very hard time i was minding my own buisness when four frinds came over and started talking about childrens doctors the only thing i wanted then was korach the ground should open…..

50. #10 I guess we shouldn’t let our kids learn yhe rashi that says sarah, rivkah and rochel were al an eilonis

51. #12 Just because a friend shares in your simcha does not give them the right to ask or say anything that comes to their mind. people should learn to be sensitive to others whether it is infertility, shidduchim, weight issues…. What does the Torah mean by Onaas Devorim if not being careful with the words you use?

52. I think you all missed the point!!!

    She had no intention in having feedback Such as:

    Do this, Do that, I know how you feel, I feel bad for you etc.

    She merely wanted the opposite, to ask the world to simply mind your own business.
    What is going on in my life or any one else in my “situation”‘s life doesn’t affect you, THEREFORE don’t talk to my stomach instead of my face, and don’t say did you see she’s married two years and she doesn’t even look pregnant!!

    P.S. 2 years doesn’t mean that one has a medical issue!!

    And to all that are concerned with the lack of tzinius, think back of how many time you discussed about someone other than your spouse being pregnant/due etc. and oops you just intruded on a tznius issue!!!!!!

53. I don’t have time to read thru all the comments but I just have to tell the writer that this is one topic that I could relate to 100%. As someone who waited a few painful yrs ’til my first child was born, I could attest to this tremendous nisoyon. However, there’s good news! You’re not alone. There are so many others who are part of this nisoyon. Log on to http://www.atime.org where you can find a wealth of info and join a forum with many others like you. You can also contact Bonei Olam to assist with any financial issues. Stay strong and remember that there’s hope for most couples. Hatzlacha!

54. my wife had a friend who had the same issue she didnt have kids for 5 years. My wife did everything she could to make her feel comfortable about us having a kid. she would never talk about my kid in front of her. she would never take my kid along with her when she met this woman. However this woman really resented the fact that we had a kid. Whenever it was that my wife would meet her and my wife was with my kid and there were other kids around those kids were the cutest kids. she would never comment about my kid and blee aiyen hora he is precious. It was so uncomfortable. it does go both ways. people in that situation i feel really bad for them and most people do. its a very uncomfortable position for both sides and most people dont know how to act on it. The people who dont have kids should as well realize that people are asking because either they care. Or they dont know how to react. p.s. boruch hashem she has buetiful twins now its so nice boruch hashem.

55. I don’t think that educating the masses about the problems, costs and issues of infertility is a lack of tznius. Bonei Olam spends millions of dollars a year and has helped almost 1,000 babies (including my daughter) be born! do you think this would have been possible without their educating the public as to the reality and steep financial cost of fertility treatments?

    A gadol once told me that only when hashem sees that klal Yisroel is Nose B’Ol and taking a responsibility to help, support and pay for these treatments, will Hashem answer the teffilos and bless all the childless with kids, and ultimately bring Moshiach.

56. For all of you discussing that the Torah discusses infertility, you should know that Torah only uses Loshon Nekia. In this article there are a couple of inappropriate words that are being used such as pregnancy, conceive and stomach… If you need to write such an article write it in a tznisdige way. Besides that there are unfortunately many young children online reading the yeshiva world and therefore this article does not belong here.

57. now lets hear from a father who had been there.

    I am so proud to say that my daughter gave birth almost three yrs. after she got married & i was not the least bit worried & neither was my daughter or her husband & quite to the contrary i was very happy, is it possible that i am crazy ?? maybe to some i am, so who cares what they think about me.

    It was the best time of thier life as they where able to be busy with them self & they got to know each other much better & where able to go away on vacation & do some traveling together & let me put it in simple english they ignored the whole world & just tought about themselves.

    Now let me say something about her mother in law & this goes to all mother in law’s, was she concerned ?? yes she was & she even tought my daughter was sick, but who cares about mother in law’s, I would like to make myself very clear & give this message to mother’s & mother in law’s Its NON OF YOUR BUSINESS your son got married & its his business & no he does not have to discuss it with you being his mother for the past 20 yrs.

    if you trust him enough to get married you have to trust that he will make the right decisions at the right time .

    TO bad once he or she got married you gave up your rights to him or her & you have no rights at all & this should be very clear to each & every parent or In Law’s.

    No, they dont have to come home to you & tell you anything & you have no right to ask anything at all & dont be so Noisy & look at your daughter or daughter in law to see if maybe i see some sign of pregnency, when they will feel they want to tell you that is when you will find out.

    now a message to all YENTAS, if you have so much time on your hand maybe you should volunteer to some organization & you wont be so bored as to be busy with every body else.

58. I must begin by mentioning that although I am a frequent YW reader, I have never before left a comment. However, I thought my opinion/advice might help you and I signed right up.
    I was also married about 2 years before I became pregnant with my first child. Like many others, my shana rishona involved plenty of adjusting. Aside from the usual “Woah, is this the same sweet person who I dated & married??”, just being with someone you have known for a few months beforehand on a constant basis is a big change. When I did get pregnant, I physically felt absolutely MISERABLE. For almost the full 9 months, I could not work, go shopping or do any housework. Though I am embarrassed to admit this, I was doubting myself why I davened so hard for this if it meant to be in this situation! I was actually jealous of my friends and sisters who felt sick for a mere few weeks. I was not even excited to have the baby and spent my days in bed depressed that Hashem was putting me through this. It was at this time that my marriage became really wonderful. My husband would go shopping, bring me food in bed, wash the dishes, etc. While I know that I was BH lucky in that aspect and not everyone has a husband who works or learns near the home (or is willing to give up so much of his time), I began to view and handle my situation in a totally different way. My marriage was doing great, and it was just at the time when we needed it the most – as it takes much patience with each other to care for a newborn. It’s good that you are looking at the positive aspect of this by focusing on your relationship – keep focusing on the positive – it really helps!

    As far as people being insensitive, I noticed that once I found out I was expecting (before I began to show or even told close friends), I noticed that I no longer noticed anyone looking at me! If a friend asked me how I was doing, I’d answer the question! Of course there was still the usual nosey people who did not even go out of their way to steal a look at your stomach when you weren’t looking, but just like a friend who tells you she thinks everyone is looking at her pimple or stain on her shirt or anything else, a lot is in the mind. Your close friends & family are davening for you, and while it is hard to hear about formula & diapers, don’t look at them as being insensitive. This is what their life is about right now, just like you would not pretend that you didnt have a husband to your married friends.

    One more thing before I end my saga. A close friend of mine had mono for about 3-4 months after she got married. She was told by her doctor to be cautious not to conceive at this time, as it may cause complications later on. While it is not expected that people come up with creative stories in their mind as to why someone is not expecting yet. There are numerous reasons, be it physical or emotional – perhaps a Rav instructed them to hold off on having children until they work out any Shalom Bayis issues that would only become worse with the added pressures of becoming parents together.

    I wish you Hatzlacha Rabbah – may your tefillos be answered litova and at the right time.

59. “I have heard such painful stories of people going through this ordeal and cruel and heartless things that people say to them or about them. This is not a choice not to have a baby! ”

    And if it is their choice, it’s still nobody’s business

60. I happen to agree with the comment that there is too much talk and advertising about a lot of things. There are enough big gevirim that could be approached quietly to fund things like Bonei Olam and also the organizations that help kimpeturins. Why must these issues be so public? Why must we discuss problems in our community so publicly so that outsiders learn all the details?

    To contradict myself, because I feel so strongly about this issue I will publicize a point many may have missed. My doctor commented to me just today that MANY cases of infertility are being caused by irresponsible use of MEDICATIONS before the wedding for frivolous reasons (vehamayvin yovin). Many rabbonim are also vehemently opposed to this practice.

    I apologise to the original writer if this comment causes you pain, but to save others in the future I feel this must be publicized.

61. As a person who went through infertility for years I can say that without A TIME I wouldn’t have survived! Please don’t think you have to suffer alone A TIME will help you!!!

62. 64, I take what you have to say very seriously. But let’s imagine that there was no ATIME, or Bonei Olam, or KimpaturinAid, etc., just private funding. When a couple would be in the situation to need help, how would they know whom to turn to? The process of having to find this information on their own could be very potentially degrading.

63. #60, I couldn’t believe your comment. While this person is writing about her story and most people commenting are offering smart comments or advice, you (and another commenter who got enough flack for their remark) are one of those people who just do not make sense! You write:

    “For all of you discussing that the Torah discusses infertility, you should know that Torah only uses Loshon Nekia. In this article there are a couple of inappropriate words that are being used such as pregnancy, conceive and stomach… If you need to write such an article write it in a tznisdige way. Besides that there are unfortunately many young children online reading the yeshiva world and therefore this article does not belong here.”

    While I am obviously not as frum as you are and am therefor not that familiar with how precisely accurate the Hebrew-English translation of Tanach is, I can most definitely assure you that you’d be able to find pregnancy, conceive and stomach in many places!

    What in the world is wrong with the word STOMACH? I’m worried about your ruchniyus as it seems like you are very conscious about what you read – it’s mind boggling that you have access to the internet and put yourself at risk for reading such foul words. If you have children, I wonder what you’d answer if they’d ask you how Rivka knew that her twins were moving when she walked by different places? I mean, it’s not like they grew inside of her, uh, stomach. Unfortunately, there are several people I know who grew up in such sheltered homes where nothing was explained to them and they had to learn about things from other un-Torahdik sources.

    As far as young children are concerned, why is it unfortunate that they are reading YW? Why are YOU reading YW?? Any child who is old enough to go on the internet, get on this website and actually be interested in this article is old enough to handle this language!

64. first things first, you have to learn the definition of crisis.
    next, i would like to take a jab at #10 for his oh so ignorant comment. why oh why is discussing infertility not tznius?! maybe we shouldnt discuss babies at all and pretend like children dont exist and people just come into being at the age of 12 or 13?! because nu, children might want to know where babies come from and… and what i dont know. teenagers?!

    and i dont know about the rest of you people but who in the world blames a couple if they cant have children? how is this in anyway related to the shidduch “crisis”? lets see , a nice good looking educated girl thats 25 and not married…then you could start point fingers (though not really) a 25 year old girl thats married but cant have children?! how is this the same?!

65. #10 – the gedolim also are Anti using the internet. I notice that this is an issue of tznius that you yourself ARE willing to breach. Are you aware that you are writing on an public forum online or did you get here by accident?

    #60 – Were you sleeping when your Rebbe was teaching Chumash? Shnei Goyim Bebitnech (two nations in your STOMACH) V’tahar vaTeled (she CONCEIVED and she GAVE BIRTH (gasp, in the Chumash!)

    I’m almost scared to asked if you ever learned Masechet Nidda. I’m assumingfrom your comments that you were probably in the back playing with your game boy.

66. Reb Moshe Midner writes in Sefer Toras Avos in the name of Reb Avraham, the first Slonimer Rebbe, that Shabbos Zachor is a time that is very auspicious for the remembrance of barren women to have healthy living children. The reason is because it is written in Bereishis 30:22 וַיִּזְכּר אלקים אֶת-רָחֵל “and the Lord remembered Rachel” (who was barren) and it is written in Bereishis 21:1 וד׳ פָּקַד אֶת-שָׂרָה”and Hashem remembered Sarah. (who was barren). There, we had two different words of remembrance for barren woman, זכר and פקד. Now, we again have the same two words used on Shabbos Zachor. We read the maftir from Devarim 25:17 זָכוֹר אֵת אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה לְךָ עֲמָלֵק “remember what Amalek did to you” and right after we read the Haftorah of Shmuel-1 15:1 פָּקַדְתִּי אֵת אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה עֲמָלֵק לְיִשְׂרָאֵל “I remember what Amalek did to Israel”.

67. Maybe we should focus on a positive aspect of the author’s letter and not the negative. She and her husband have had the opportunity to spend 2 years together alone. Their love and affection has developed in such a way that would not have been possible if they had had a child 9 months after the wedding. Maybe we should all feel a little envy instead of sorrow. To the author: Your time will come b’shaa tova.

68. Sarah Yarok:

    You are correct that it is counterproductive for the frum community to publicize it dirty laundry. What you do not seem to realize is that infrtility is NOT a dirty laundry issue. It is a medical problem. It may be embarrasing, but it is not a charchater flaw. It is a mitzvah to publicize the resources available to help people as long long as the privacy of the individuals who use them is protected.

    The inability (or unwillingness) to understand this distinction has tied the hands of the frum community for too long.

    May answer all of our tefilos L’tovah.

69. To #64 who commented “There are enough big gevirim that could be approached quietly to fund things like Bonei Olam and also the organizations that help kimpeturins. Why must these issues be so public? ”

    If only this were true. Do you know that with all the gevirim, and with all the donations from the non-gevirim-who-have-a-heart, kollel people who give because they want to help even if they don’t have…..do you know that ATIME and Bonei Olam deplete their budget, more often than not faster than they can replenish it? and yes I know this for a fact.

    Do you know what it’s like to be told that you have been helped to the max, and there’s no more funding available to you? I know what it’s like.

    Last year a private party was organized to help a couple who had been thru treatments 10 times, and were finally having their first baby! Yes 10 times! You do the math! Do you know what her debt was? Do you know that she couldn’t afford treatment needed to maintain the pregnancy? Someone ignorantly asked whether she had gone to the organizations. The answer is yes! But they could only help so much! Do you think they should have given up?

    B”h thru word of mouth and the kindness of acheinu bnei yisroel who don’t even know them, the money was raised, and they were able to finally enter the joyous stage of parenthood with peace of mind.

70. When my daughter wasn’t zocher to start a family after about two and a half years I started to examine myself and try to think if there was anyone who might have anything against me or anyone close to my family.I realised that there was someone who might have some ill feelings towards myself in particular. Even though it was very, very hard as I didnt feel that I was to blame for that person feeling hurt I went out of my way to make up and each time I went the extra mile and was made to feel very hurt and very low I felt so happy as I hoped that this would help my childrens situation. Boruch Hashem my daughter soon after told us good news!! The morale of the story is that making peace even when it really hurts brings yeshuos.

71. Dear Writer,
    I feel with you – but youre friends dont mean to harm you , by talking about there children if they wouldn’t you would say they are avioding it, and whats wrong with them asking you wats doing -so they are doomed either way they put it. Why don’t you try another way of dealing with it instead of staying in you house and moping when you husband leavs go over to your friend , help her with the kids laugh at the cute things they say and do ,and at the same time you’ll be getting a big mitzvah , or just having a good time with an old friend its not worth loseing a friend because she liveing her life she doesn’t mean to harm you in any way. Its all about how you deal with it -no ,no one will choose it but try to make the best of it go out -and be carefree -because IY”H it wont last too much longer thiers a light at the end of the tunnel!!! thiers alot of hope keep strong your doing a great job.My mother once told me if a single girl knew that she would get married at age -25-27-31 she would make the most of it .If a married lady knew that she would have a child 3- 5 -8 years after shes married she’d make the most of it too . I’m not saying its easy for either party , but by the way no one asked you this is your package accept it with love -even though it may seem like the grass is greener on the other side “STAY STRONG YOUR FAMILY & FRINDS LOVE YOU & DONT MEAN TO HURT YOU IN ANY WAY” May all of klall yiroel see their yeshuos speedely

72. #74 – perhaps, but the Achzarious got to me. Responding to the nature of the letter, he should not have used this occasion to be preaching about his version of Tznius – not to mention that a person who is THAT makpid about harmless words such a those “pregnancy” or “stomach” ,would not be caught within miles of surfing the internet. Surely its a lot more Treif.

    If he was that concerned, he should have asked the editor a private note.

    Bieng a Naval BirShus Hatorah – is still being a Naval. Shame on him!

73. interesting! yes I was in the “parsha” many years. Going through infertility is no fun, to say the least,but all of you bare in mind nobody’s here to hurt anyone,usually when an inappropiate comment is said the person saying it feels worse than anyone else. but in any case you do not have to be alone in this ‘A.T.I.M.E. offers the couple tremendous amount of chizuk the founders of this organization are the true understanding couple for anyone facing infertility , they have gone through it all by them selves. on another note for people struggling with the financial aspect of this I woild love to see balei batim and givurim taking indivdual couples and sponsoring them privately. I cannot tell anyone the tzar of being “qualified” to get funds to cover infertility ,I don’t think anyone notices the fine lines of all these hundreds of ads of all the hundreds of fundraisers for “the couple who qualifies ” the busha that we have been put through only to be declined because we didn’t have the right protekzia, or maybe didn;t have that rich uncle who gave to that and that organization, that is called pain when yes we are being very exposed just to fundraise and I run in a the true “infertile community” only we really kow the truth can someone do something about it? tachlis, don’t fundraise on our cheshben and then turn us down because we don’t qualify,(we both work very hard and trust me we don’t own a house and have no savings account.}

74. 53, i was in the parsha more than once (with first time and secondary (don’t want to go into details here)and I know someone in the parshah doesn’t want advice, but wants empathy, but i wanted to share what helped, and if you want to try it, go ahead, if not that is your choice. sorry if i came across in an offensive way.

75. BH I have children and didnt go thru one of the hardest nisyonos of today’s day and age. I have family who unfortunately did and I can understand all the points raised in your beautiful and well written letter. Perhaps I can ask your advice as to how you feel we should behave – when we come to visit should we bing the kids? Or not? When a kid is unwell should we mention it? When a kid does something cute do you want to know?

    I ask because from personal experience whatever we did was wrong – if we brought the kids we were agravating their pain, if we didnt then we were making them into rachmaniyos. If we mentioned something to do with the kids we were rubbing it in, if we didnt and they heard from other sources then why didnt we say something etc etc.

    Yes, we took it well and with understanding and we didnt get offended and we just swallowed it all but it was hard for us too. What should/could we have done?

76. But many of you conveniently fail to examine the larger issue. ” The pressures of today’s society are enough to drive a couple apart “. If a frum woman is saying that the “frum society” is pressuring her, we must look inward and ask ourselves and rabbbanim whether our religious priorities and lifestyle are not inculcating the wrong priorities. Do her words suggest that she feels respected or loved by other frum women,or by our “frum” brethren ? Pardon me but you all sound so self-righteous when you say how you’ll daven for her welfare rather than deal with the obvious lack of ahavas yisrael. Perhaps, she is telling us that the mitvah of p’ru urevu is never greater than ahavas Yisrael ? I thank G-d I don’t live in a yeshivish community like Lakewood !

77. Your words are so true!

78. im sorry but this is NOT untznius. its an issue that needs to be discussed. we cant have anyone staring at people just because they arent the way they are. someone before asked if the person who wrote that its untznius ever learned masechet nidda. he has a point and if you think its not tznius than what did you say to your rabbi when you learned gemara and chumash??

79. #10- chill out, man. Don’t make problems from nothing.