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Can someone please clarrify exactly what happened in Lizensk a few monthes ago and what is the current situation with those 3 bochurim? Is anything being done to have them released? I heard the conditions there are unbearable.
They were supposed to have a trial one of these days, but I think it was pushed off, because of the 3 weeks / chodesh av.
Let’s have them in mind in our tefillos! Anyone have their names?
Yoel Zev ben Mirel Risa Chava Yaakov Yosef ben Reizel Yosef ben Ita Rivka
Yaakov Yosef ben Raizel
Yosef ben Yitta Rivka
Yoel ben Mirel Risa Chava
It is Yoel ZEEV ben Mirel Risa Chava, as gedalya already wrote. Initially the Zeev wasn’t known about, but it is part of his name. Besuros Tovos
Does anyone know if they found those who set them up?
Nameless- I wish it’s so easy to get them released. I read numerous articles about pple who are working on this case, they’re not even trying to get them released bec its so unlikely, they’re at least trying to get them lighter sentences.
But of course we can never know and we’re waiting for a big ness every day.
I cant stop thinking about them.
May they get their Yeshoua very soon. Amen.
Any updates???
nobody knows. everyone says something else. may they be released soon
can someone explain what happened. I dont know the story.
I don’t know much about this but just a word of advice, don’t ever take a package from ANYONE without opening before hand. (Verify with them before that it is okay, of course) This may be awkward when it comes to someone you feel close to but there isn’t much of a choice as unfortunately we can’t trust anyone these days. (You can say an excuse that you just want to open it so that you can tell people that you do this with everyone even close family and you need to be honest…)
nebach so many shvuyim in klal yisroel! Should i add them in the mi sheberach?
I wonder how the man who sent them with the drugs sleeps at night and sat in shul on Y”K… Whoever you are out there- i hope you regret this for the rest of your life!
Regarding opening packages, tell your family that you do not want to lie when asked by airport personel, “do you know the content of everything in your suitcases?” “Do you have any packages given to you by anyone else?”… Just say- I need to open it to be able to answer the questions B’emes
Isnt that what we always tell children, ” midbar sheker tirchah…never tell a lie…”
the rabbis daughters: from what i know, 3 yeshiva bachurim agreed to take a package for a friend/relative (?) to Japan, im assuming, and in it were drugs that they had no idea about. they were caught by japanese police and ive heard r’l that they were sentenced to death, but i cant be sure about that.
may they be zoche to a nes from Hashem and a geulah bmheira amen.
I just got an email asking people to say tehilim for all three but especialy for one because he is being tortured is that true?
i hope this isnt true bueverybody should say Tehillim even i f its not true these bochrim really need to get out
ttt I got a text message similar to that.Sounds creepy, May g-d have mercy.
ttt-I got the same email, R’L i heard its true. BH we can fight all the wars and save the shvuyim on one front….Davening and Learning. May we see an end to all tzaros!
i got a text to say tehilim for yakov yosef ben raizel. hes having his trial now. i got this text a few weeks ago so im assuming he had his trial already. anybody has any updates?
i am hoping and praying that its not true why would they single one out if they were all caught together? may we ALL ve zoche to the geulah shelaima bimhaira!
No one is being tortured. The trial will happen soon. Daven for them. (from a very reliable source)
yael: Do they currently stand a good chance at winning the case?
I do not know much about this tragic story, but it underscores a very important lesson. NOT every country in the world is the good ole’ USA. Foreign countries could not care less who you are, how innocent a victim you may be, and how ignorant you were of the fact that you were committing a crime. It is their playground and they make the rules, and if you think they are democratic about it, think again. Anyone see “Midnight Express?” These boys may well have been innocent victims of a nefarious drug dealer who used their naivete. But that makes no difference in the real world. Other countries are so harsh in their dealings with drug pushers, that it boggles the mind that anyone would be that stupid as to get invovled. Maybe the USA could learn a thing or two, and we might not have such a drug problem here. (I absolutely do NOT condone the violence, however).
All I can say is DAVEN. Japan does not like drugs or the people who bring them in. The Dept of Justice and the police don’t like to arrest people without an airtight case (that doesn’t mean that they are guilty, just that they were sure they would find drugs on them). There is no violence or torture. They are not in posh US-style jails and they don’t have any amenities. Japan wants each prisoner to repent for their crime.
YAEL- I heard they are DEFINITELY being tortured and one of them already became touched from his torture. I also heard that they are being held in tiny little rooms that cannot hold a person. they cannot stand up straight bec the ceilings are so low.
From sitting all alone, without stretching limbs once in a while, I dont think it’s possible to stay normal.
OH! Im so traumatized. I hope this is all not true, but it seems too real….
May Hahsem have them freed today!!!
the entire episode is chilling to say the least. what have we come to?
so are they being tortured or not? this is so scary! :-O
I cannot say how I know what I know. Rabbonim infinitely bigger than me have assured it. I know they are ok — not great, not magnificent, not terrific. They eat (although not you and I eat in a free society), they have visitors and lawyers helping them. Rumors are ugly things. Is it torture to not have freedom? Then all prisoners are being tortured. Would you not daven for them regardless of their situation — mediocre or bad? Please, please daven for them and the people who are trying to help them.
yaelaldrich: on behalf of the coffee room board, welcome to the coffee room!!!(everyone: you should have all welcomed her earlier!!!)
Here is a notice that my husband received from the Rabbonim who are working on the case.
From: Defense Strategy Team 3 Bochurim in Tokyo
Sent: 2009-01-04 22:38
Subject: UPDATE on the welfare of the three Yeshiva boys detained in Toyo, Japan
Dear All,
Further to an email that has been widely circulated, claiming that the
three unfortunate Yeshiva bochurim detained in Tokyo, Japan are being
maltreated, allow me to clarify the following:
As a community activist involved in this specific case since it
transpired, and a member of the vaad hapoel working under the
directives of the Rabbinical advisory board, amongst them Rabbi Dayan
C.Y.D. Weis of Antwerp & Rabbi M. Shafran of Bene Beraq, I can confirm
that to the contrary, the boys with whom we have been entrusted to
steer their defense, are in fact being cared for in the best possible
manner.
After much diplomatic effort, improvements to their kosher dietary
allowances have recently been accomplished.
As initiated & lobbied by the askonim, regular medical check-ups are
carried out upon the request of our lawyers.
The boys are visited regularly by Rabbis & askonim both stationed
locally and who fly in especially to maintain their spirits & good
morale.
Our efforts at this time are concentrated on preparation of the legal
defense for the pending trial. Several pre-trials have shown some
glimmer of hope, & it is only right to share this information with all
who are concerned about their welfare.
It is nevertheless of paramount importance that we pray for the
continued success of the defense council & askonim; & pray for the
positive outcome to this case.
Please be persistent in davenning for all three bochurim:
Yaakov Yosef Ben Raizel
Yoel Zeev Ben Mirel Risa Chava
and Yosef ben Itta Rivka.
Any circulation of unfounded false rumors regarding the welfare of the
detainees is detrimental to the legal procedure, destabilizes the good
working relationship with the Japanese authorities, distracts the
lawyers & devoted askonim from their time consuming & tedious work,
and causes the uninformed to lose hope and relent from constant
davenning on the boys behalf.
May I sign off with a blessing of good tidings to all.
The Vaad Hapoel
Dear All,
Further to an email that has been widely circulated, claiming that the three unfortunate Yeshiva bochurim detained in Tokyo, Japan are being maltreated, allow me to clarify the following:
As a community activist involved in this specific case since it transpired, and a member of the vaad hapoel working under the directives of the Rabbinical advisory board, amongst them Rabbi Dayan C.Y.D. Weis of Antwerp & Rabbi M. Shafran of Bene Beraq, I can confirm that to the contrary, the boys with whom we have been entrusted to steer their defense, are in fact being cared for in the best possible manner.
After much diplomatic efforts, improvements to their kosher dietary allowances have recently been accomplished.
As initiated & lobbied by the askonim, regular medical check-ups are carried out upon the request of our lawyers.
The boys are visited regularly by Rabbis & askonim both stationed locally and who fly in especially to maintain their spirits & good morale.
Our efforts at this time are concentrated on preparation of the legal defense for the pending trial. Several pre-trials have shown some glimmer of hope, & it is only right to share this information with all who are concerned about their welfare.
It is nevertheless of paramount importance that we pray for the continued success of the defense council & askonim; & pray for the positive outcome to this case.
Please be persistent in davenning for all three bochurim:
Yaakov Yosef Ben Raizel
Yoel Zeev Ben Mirel Risa Chava
and Yosef ben Itta Rivka.
Any circulation of unfounded false rumors regarding the welfare of the detainees is detrimental to the legal procedure, destabilizes the good working relationship with the Japanese authorities, distracts the lawyers & devoted askonim from their time consuming & tedious work, and causes the un-informed to lose hope and relent from constant davenning on the boys behalf.
May I sign off with a blessing of good tidings to all.
The Vaad Hapoel
Baruch Hash-m
I how I really hope so. Please continue to Daven. Dont forget about them.
i dont think that it was a freind or relative who gave it to them…and they were not going to japan someone paid for them to goto japan if they would take the package…chances are that these boys knew what they were doing…y just because they r jewish should they not go to prison? imagine if it was ur kid (to those who have kids) who they were selling it too wouldnt u want them locked up for life?
BS”D
First of all, the case is unclear and there has not yet been a trial. You have no right to judge them guilty. Taking advantage of travelers like this has been going on for years especially to and from E”Y which sadly is a major center of drug trade and organized crime.
I once received a legitimate contribution of sample medication from a doctor that I was to transfer to Chabad in Moscow for summer camps (as I was the only Lubavitcher the doctor could find) and I was afraid to take the packages from his hotel room because it could have been a scam. I just about interrogated the poor guy before I took the medication, and in fact I opened and checked two foil packages of pills and used one sample of cortisone cream myself before I turned the rest of the packages over to the camp.
Second of all, Yisroel af al pi shechoto Yisroel hu and there is a mitzvoh of pidyon shevuim even if a crime was committed.
I don’t know enough about the case to have an opinion if anyone is guilty or innocent. I hope the court finds the truth and frees these boys if they are indeed innocent. And I wish only the worst possible fate for the mamzer who sent them on the trip. (Both for what he did to these boys and for the victims of his drugs.)
However, Itzik is wrong when he says that pidyon shevuim applies if a person is guilty of a crime and is punished appropriately by a legitimate court.
BS”D
DD – appropriately is the key. We fear that Japan will be very strict with them.
BS”D
Again a half post:
Also, is there not a machloikes between poskim regarding pidyon shevuim for the guilty and what constitutes a legitimate court?
The Gemora (Bava Basra 8b) calls pidyon shvuyim a “mitzvah rabbah” and says that captivity is worse than starvation and death. Rambam rules that he who ignores ransoming a captive is guilty of transgressing commandments such as “you shall not harden your heart” (Devorim 15:7); “you shall not stand idly by the blood of your brother” (Vayikra 19:16); and “you shall love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18).
And one who delays in ransoming a captive is considered like a murderer (Yoreh Deah 252:3). Indeed, Rambam himself wrote letters exhorting his fellow Jews to redeem captives and collected money for pidyon shvuyim.
Pidyon shvuyim is an absolute mitzvah, which must be followed at all times. There is ONLY one major exception, as explained in the Gemora (Gittin 45a). And that exception is either (its a machlokes) a-its too big a financial burden on klal yisroel or b-they goyim might take more Jewish prisoners. That is the ONLY exception.
Pidyun Shvuyim is a MITZVAH RABBAH, innocent or guilty.
Pidyon shvuyim is an absolute mitzvah, which must be followed at all times. There is ONLY one major exception, as explained in the Gemora (Gittin 45a). And that exception is either (its a machlokes) a-its too big a financial burden on klal yisroel or b-they goyim might take more Jewish prisoners. That is the ONLY exception.
Joseph, I always heard that if they are going to be tried fairly (such as we have in the US), than pidyon shvuyim is not mandatory. Do you know if there any source for that?
You do stupid silly things, you pay for them. Welcome to life.
Maybe if they had gotten a slightly more worldly education, they would have been more aware of what they were doing and of the risk they were taking. I guess their cheider rebbe never told them about this kind of thing going on in the world.
joseph,
that’s two 🙂
yaelaldrich-
Welcome to the coffee room! Put on your seatbelt it can be a bit of a bumpy ride in here!
As chairman asdfghjkl would say and as I in the process of continuing my week to prove to be a worthy member say:
You should go to the new members forum/thread to a get a welcome from the cr gang and from the “chairpeople”
joseph,
that’s two 🙂
moish01, there is only one exception. but it is a machlokes in the Gemora which one of two things that the one exception is.
Joseph: Pidyun Shvuyim is a MITZVAH RABBAH, innocent or guilty.
If I remember correctly from a sefer of his (or a sefer about him?), Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach disagrees with Joseph.
dd – perhaps you remember incorrectly; please provide a mekor.
joseph, the maharam used #2, no?
moish01, I was already impressed with you, but now declare you to be a tzaddik nister. You obviously know more Torah then you have let on! 🙂
Of course you are referring to the story in the 13th century where the Maharam (of Rothenburg) was captured by the Duke of Lombardy. The Jewish community collected a great deal of money to ransom him. The Maharam sent word from prison ordering that the money be returned to the donors and remained in confinement for the seven remaining years of his life.
To answer your question, yes I believe the Maharam was concerned that they may take other Jewish prisoners. (Although the Maharshal says that the Maharam was stricter on himself than he had to be. So perhaps the Maharshal is saying that the reason was the heavy financial burden on Klal Yisroel — although Tosafos says that a Godol could be redeemed at any financial cost.)
Did anyone get this text:
The three chassidishe boys who were arrested in japan have been sentenced to death by hanging in less than 2 hours. Please daven 4 them. Please forward!!!
~a~
Yes I don’t believe it based on the info yaelaldrich gave us…
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